Generals and armies

[Farael]

Well, let's hope I have better luck with this thread than the one I started last time... I couldn't find anything that dealt with these issues before.

I was reading the "Do you think Tolkien would be insulted by the LoTR movies? thread and I noted a little side-conversation with regards to the elves in Helms Deep.

Now, while in the books (thanks Boromir88) there is absolutely no mention what so ever of elves in Helms Deep (besides Legolas of course) on the battle of the fields of Pelenor we know that Elrond's sons are present.

Yet on the battle at the Black Gate we have this quote

Upon the one hill he stood with Gandalf, and there fair and desperate was raised the banner of the Tree and Stars. Upon the other hill hard by stood the banners of Rohan and Dol Amroth, White Horse and Silver Swan. And about each hill a ring was made facing all ways, bristling with spear and sword. But in the front towards Mordor where the first bitter assault would come there stood the sons of Elrond on the left with Dunedain about them, and on the right the Prince Imrahil with the men of Dol Amroth tall and fair, and picked men of the Tower of Guard

Even though they were great fighters, I don't think the sons of Elrond with a few Dunedain could defeat a force that outnumbered them by the thousands. Then we read that Prince Imrahil with some picked men were with them as well and I understood it as if saying that the captains were Elladan and Elrohir with men as their soldiers. Yet a friend of mine who happens to be a History major told me that a king or a general was present (without mentioning anything about his soldiers) and yet it would be implied that along with them were their armies.

If I thought this was the explanation for the elves at Helms Deep I would have posted this in the movie forum yet I'd like to focus the discussion away from PJ's work and into Tolkiens.

Have the elves really given up on humanity? If I'm not mistaken, the elves at Mirkwood were fighting a powerful enemy at the time, the elves of Lorien and Rivendel had to work hard to protect their domains.... and yet it is possible that they sent two armies to the rescue of Gondor (Namely, with Elladan and Elrohir). I know the bases for this argument are rather weak because when Elladan, Elohir and the Dunedain meet with Aragorn and the Rohorrim it is said that there are thirty of them, if I'm not mistaken. Yet I always thought that Tolkien had not quite managed to show the massive amounts of people present in the battle of Pelenor and the Black Gate. Maybe, if we consider the names of the people mentioned as the name of a general and his soldiers (Not necessarily whole armies but maybe a couple hundred fighters) the battle will seem more crowded all of a sudden. IT will also explain how only thirty Dunedain and two elves were THAT much of a difference makers.

I know there will be quotes that say exactly how many they are and if I'm not mistaken there is a quote by Theoden saying that each of those men are worth a hundred of his (or something along those lines) yet for a moment assume that maybe they were excelent yet under-manned field generals and that their names represent them and their soldiers. Doesn't the battle of Pelenor seem more terrible, crowded and realistic?

Feel free to say "No, not really... I like it how it is" if those are your thoughts.. and let's hope this has not been discussed before. If it has, maybe someone should give me lessons of forum searching.