LotR -- Book 4 - Chapter 02 - The Passage of the Marshes - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Estelyn Telcontar · 03-06-2005, 03:35 PM

We continue with Frodo, Sam and Gollum’s journey; Gollum’s help as their guide is shown to be invaluable. The alternate route is described twice in contrast to the way through the Marshes – it would have been impossible to hide there. Of course, it would have been equally impossible for them to find their way through the Marshes on their own.

One of Frodo and Sam’s problems is their need for sleep vs. their mistrust of Gollum. Another thing that Sam is concerned about is the shortness of their food supplies – he is thinking of the return journey, though Frodo has little hope that there will be one.

Gollum’s problem is lack of food; we find out that he does not want to/cannot eat lembas, another Elven creation that is apparently harmful to him. Any ideas why? A hungry Gollum could be a problem to the hobbits, Sam fears.

The Dead Marshes are described with the lights and dead faces, and their historical background is touched upon briefly. Let’s explore that more in the discussion.

I remember thinking that Gollum’s schizophrenic scene seemed overdone in the movie, but the book version is not really that much different. What I find chilling in the written account is the fact that it is not preceded by any negative actions on Sam or Frodo’s part (something we definitely need to take into account in any discussion of his redeemability), and the fact that we read of it from Sam’s point of view makes his suspicions seem well-founded indeed. His reaction is rather cunning in concealing his knowledge of Gollum’s self-dialogue. What do you make of the alternating pale and green light of Sméagol/Gollum’s eyes there?

More things we can discuss: winged wraiths; the weight of the ring; the description of the wastelands near Mordor; Frodo’s dream, which leaves no recalled memory, but a lingering positive emotional memory; and the bits of poetry at the beginning of the chapter, this time recited by Gollum and partly in memory of Bilbo’s riddle adventure.

(As always, this thread opens for posting early Monday morning.)

03-06-2005, 03:35 PM	#1
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	LotR -- Book 4 - Chapter 02 - The Passage of the Marshes We continue with Frodo, Sam and Gollum’s journey; Gollum’s help as their guide is shown to be invaluable. The alternate route is described twice in contrast to the way through the Marshes – it would have been impossible to hide there. Of course, it would have been equally impossible for them to find their way through the Marshes on their own. One of Frodo and Sam’s problems is their need for sleep vs. their mistrust of Gollum. Another thing that Sam is concerned about is the shortness of their food supplies – he is thinking of the return journey, though Frodo has little hope that there will be one. Gollum’s problem is lack of food; we find out that he does not want to/cannot eat lembas, another Elven creation that is apparently harmful to him. Any ideas why? A hungry Gollum could be a problem to the hobbits, Sam fears. The Dead Marshes are described with the lights and dead faces, and their historical background is touched upon briefly. Let’s explore that more in the discussion. I remember thinking that Gollum’s schizophrenic scene seemed overdone in the movie, but the book version is not really that much different. What I find chilling in the written account is the fact that it is not preceded by any negative actions on Sam or Frodo’s part (something we definitely need to take into account in any discussion of his redeemability), and the fact that we read of it from Sam’s point of view makes his suspicions seem well-founded indeed. His reaction is rather cunning in concealing his knowledge of Gollum’s self-dialogue. What do you make of the alternating pale and green light of Sméagol/Gollum’s eyes there? More things we can discuss: winged wraiths; the weight of the ring; the description of the wastelands near Mordor; Frodo’s dream, which leaves no recalled memory, but a lingering positive emotional memory; and the bits of poetry at the beginning of the chapter, this time recited by Gollum and partly in memory of Bilbo’s riddle adventure. (As always, this thread opens for posting early Monday morning.) __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'