LotR -- Book 3 - Chapter 11 - The Palantír

[davem]

Originally Posted by Neithan

The Ring did not have a spirit.

No. I said it was a 'locus' of spiritual evil. I was (probably not clearly enough) drawing an analogy between the Ring as a phyisical object with a 'spiritual/metaphysical' aspect & an Elf/Human made up of fea/hroa.

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

I view the Trees as being a creation of the Valar, which they were able to hallow and fill with light by their own power.

I've always understood the Light (as opposed to light) to be the Secret Fire, & so Saruman's breaking of it is a blasphemous rather than a 'scientific' act. The Light of the Trees is called 'Holy' which I think relates it to Eru rather than the Valar. All Holiness has its origin in Eru not in any of His subordinates. Besides, if they could produce the Light themselves why not just conjure up some more. The point is that the Light is limited & grows less & less from the Lamps to the Trees to the Sun & Moon. That implies that the Valar didn't have an endless supply - they couldn't just 'manufacture' it.

Originally Posted by Lyta

The power is in the desire of the thing, not native in the thing itself.

But the Jewels are not morally neutral. They are 'Holy'. They exert a 'pull'. If the Light they contain has its origin in Eru then that attraction would be intense & quite possibly overwhelming - as proved so often to be the case....

Perhaps Faramir would have used the Palantir. Certainly I don't believe he would ever have used the Ring - because he knew that was Evil. He may have used a Palantir on the other hand - if he hadn't known what had happened to Saruman.

Too rushed..