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Old 03-29-2003, 08:31 PM   #11
Tar Elenion
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 369
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Quote:
In the 'Tale of Aragorn and Arwen' it is made clear that Arwen's continued immortality is contigent on accompanying her father when he leaves Middle Earth for Aman, if she chooses to remain she becomes Mortal. And Aragorn, struck by a forseeing, tells Elrond that the time of his abiding grows short and 'the choice must soon be laid on your children' strongly implying that the same limitation applies to the twins.

Later, when Aragorn suggests Arwen might change her mind and follow her father, she answers 'that choice is long over'. Now either we must assume the twins are, for some unknown reason, bound by different rules than their sister or that they too have chosen Mortality by remaining behind in Middle Earth.
Yet we have a different implication in the Prologue:
"It is probable that Meriadoc obtained assistance and information from Rivendell, which he visited more than once. There, though Elrond had departed, his sons long remained, together with some of the High-elven folk. It is said that Celeborn went to dwell there after the departure of Galadriel; but there is no record of the day when at last he sought the Grey Havens, and with him went the last living memory of the Elder Days in Middle-earth."

That Elladan and Elrohir 'long remained' implies that they 'departed' eventually. But departed for where? In this section 'departing' is used for 'Sailing West'. But that does not necessarily imply that Elladan and Elrohir did so. Was their 'departure' death? or the West? (or maybe they just decided to live elsewhere).
As JRRT wrote:
"Elrond passes Over Sea. The end of his sons, Elladan and Elrohir, is not told: they delay their choice, and remain for a while."


Quote:
The HoME shows clearly that the Professor was constantly revising and rethinking his opus but it is my understanding he felt bound by anything that had actually appeared in print - even if he got a better idea later.
Usually he did, but he might also look for an out. The comment from Letters (which is contemporary with LotR, not a later different idea) ties in quite neatly with the Prologue statement.
Quote:
And Legolas, I must disagree, Elros's kids were every bit as much descendants of Earendil as Elrond's brood, and Manwe says *any Mortal blood at all* whether greater or lesser makes the carrier Mortal, but by special grace Earendil's sons are allowed to choose which kindred they will be counted among. Thus either *all* Earendil and Elwing's grandchildren should have been automatically mortal, (as per the usual rule) *OR* all should have been allowed their choice. The exact percentage of Elven and Mortal blood shouldn't make any difference at all.
Manwe says any mortal blood at all makes one mortal unless Manwe specifically grants them other Doom. The 'all or none' option you are presenting nothing to do with what was written. JRRT quite specifically said Elros had a choice, and chose to be mortal, and thus his descendants were mortal, he did not make an exception for Elros' children. He also quite specifically said Elrond had a choice and Elronds's children had a choice (and Elrond's children were born thousands of years after Elros' children died).

[ March 29, 2003: Message edited by: Tar Elenion ]
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