The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
Old 03-25-2003, 10:28 AM   #11
Aiwendil
Late Istar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
Aiwendil is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Aiwendil is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Sting

Quote:
forgive me Aiwendil, when I posted this your major had completely skipped my mind, or obviously I needn't have bothered
No, I'm glad you posted it here. Despite my somewhat negative comments I find the opinions here interesting.

Quote:
THat of Elves and esoteric disciplines of Taoism and Eastern Christianity.
This is indeed a very interesting analogy, and I look forward to reading your paper someday. I would argue that a meaningful (as opposed to accidental) analogy is more likely here simply because we're talking now entirely about humans (and Elves, which, as Tolkien points out, are really just another type of the "humane"). It is not surprising or far-fetched to think that similar features in two different humans, or two different cultures, stem from some common impulse in human nature (or in a cultural influences common to both). It can thus be quite meaningful and illuminating to analyze those points of similarity. So discussing Taoism in relation to Tolkien seems to me to be a worthwhile project.

Quote:
I see no reason why with the Ainulindale he might not have 'accidently', or more exactly 'intuited' any physics behind an Ainulindale.
With all due respect to Tolkien, one cannot simply 'intuit' things like string theory, or ultra-dense conditions in the early universe. One could, I suppose, intuit some notion of entropy - but it would require conscious thought and directed effort. But I don't see any reason to think that the rigorously physical concept of entropy played a role in Tolkien's works. Certainly there is a kind of Norse idea of the long defeat, but this is at all points in the mythology a result of conscious actions, not of random processes.

Quote:
And from one other angle, the World according to Christian [and Jewish of course, though interpreted differntly] Theology, was also created through sound by God's 'Word'.
I agree that this is a meaningful similarity. However, I would say that the word of God in Genesis and in John corresponds more accurately to Iluvatar's "Ea!" than to the singing of the Ainur. In fact, I think that the actual song of the Ainur is one of the interesting differences between the Legendarium and Judeo-Christian theology. In the latter, the angelic beings play no apparent role in the actual devising of the universe. This, I think, ties in with Tolkien's emphasis, both in the Ainulindale and throughout the Legendarium, on art or 'sub-creation'.

But, as I pointed out above, there are far more dissimilarities between the Ainulindale and various physical concepts such as string theory and vibrations in the early universe than there are similarities.

I think it is often a very illuminating and meaningful activity to search for parallels between an author's work and the real world. However, it is of the utmost importance in this activity to carefully examine the similarities and determine which may be meaningful and which are merely accidental. Also, it is important to search for fundamental connections rather than superficial ones. The fundamental nature of the Ainulindale, I would argue, has nothing to do with amplitudes and normal modes - it has to do with art and artistry.

[ March 25, 2003: Message edited by: Aiwendil ]
Aiwendil is offline   Reply With Quote
 


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:04 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.