Elves as artists - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

davem · 07-07-2003, 03:00 AM

I want to give something Tolkien wrote on the Elvish understanding/experience of time. Its quoted by Verlyn Flieger in her book A Question of Time.

"In Elvish sentiment the 'future' was not one of hope or desire, but a decay & retrogression from former bliss & power. Though inevitably it lay 'ahead', as of one on a journey, "looking forward" did not implyanticipation of delight. "I look forward to seeing you again" did not mean or imply "I wish to see you again, & since that is arranged/& or very likely, I am pleased". It meant simply "I expect to see you againwith the certainty of foresight(in some circumstances) or regard that as very probable - it might be with fear or dislike, 'foreboding'" Their position , as of latter day sentiment was of exiles driven forward (against their will) who were in mind or actual position ever looking backwards".

Flieger interprets -

"Tolkien's Elves, who, facing toward their past, are 'backed' into the future by those who follow. Men are 'proceeding' into the future, while Elves are 'receeding' into it."

In other words, you have to see the Elves, facing into the past, yearning for what they can no longer have, & being driven 'backwards', away from their ideal world by men, or really, by the natural forces of change in ME.
You have to distinguish between what the Elves do, at certain times, in certain situations, & what they are, in their essential nature. They may fight, guide, make weapons, lead, but what they ARE is a race of artists. Their value system is not based on facts, power or money, but on aesthetics.

Everything they do naturally is a work of art. The Tengwar are designed by Feanor as a beautiful alphabet - their writings are not ever just scribbles, they are always caligraphy. If I remember rightly, there's a dispute, in a piece Tolkien wrote called The Shibboleth of Feanor, where there's this big argument about whether a certain pronunciation, a sound change, should be allowed in their language.

They are being forced further & further away from their ideal place - the past. Its more & more difficult for them to live the way they need to. You could find an analogy in Leaf by Niggle - Niggle is the 'Elf', taking natural materials paint, made from natural pigments & oil, & canvas, again made from natural fibres, & turning them into art. Along comes the 'official', symbolic of men, & says it should have been used to fix his neighbour's leaking roof.

The Elves tendency is to take nature, & embalm it into ART. Pushed to an extreme, in the Elves ideal world, nothing would change at all. Their ideal model is the Undying Lands. The desire for the past is a desire for a 'fixed' reality. the past cannot change. Effectively, they would HAVE to freeze everything into a perfect frozen moment, a perfect picure in which they can wander, or just stand & admire. Men can be seen as active, moving forward into the future, Elves as passive, seeking to stay frozen in their idealised past.

(I tried these ideas elsewhere & got shot down. Anyone here agree with me?)

07-07-2003, 03:00 AM	#1
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	Elves as artists I want to give something Tolkien wrote on the Elvish understanding/experience of time. Its quoted by Verlyn Flieger in her book A Question of Time. "In Elvish sentiment the 'future' was not one of hope or desire, but a decay & retrogression from former bliss & power. Though inevitably it lay 'ahead', as of one on a journey, "looking forward" did not implyanticipation of delight. "I look forward to seeing you again" did not mean or imply "I wish to see you again, & since that is arranged/& or very likely, I am pleased". It meant simply "I expect to see you againwith the certainty of foresight(in some circumstances) or regard that as very probable - it might be with fear or dislike, 'foreboding'" Their position , as of latter day sentiment was of exiles driven forward (against their will) who were in mind or actual position ever looking backwards". Flieger interprets - "Tolkien's Elves, who, facing toward their past, are 'backed' into the future by those who follow. Men are 'proceeding' into the future, while Elves are 'receeding' into it." In other words, you have to see the Elves, facing into the past, yearning for what they can no longer have, & being driven 'backwards', away from their ideal world by men, or really, by the natural forces of change in ME. You have to distinguish between what the Elves do, at certain times, in certain situations, & what they are, in their essential nature. They may fight, guide, make weapons, lead, but what they ARE is a race of artists. Their value system is not based on facts, power or money, but on aesthetics. Everything they do naturally is a work of art. The Tengwar are designed by Feanor as a beautiful alphabet - their writings are not ever just scribbles, they are always caligraphy. If I remember rightly, there's a dispute, in a piece Tolkien wrote called The Shibboleth of Feanor, where there's this big argument about whether a certain pronunciation, a sound change, should be allowed in their language. They are being forced further & further away from their ideal place - the past. Its more & more difficult for them to live the way they need to. You could find an analogy in Leaf by Niggle - Niggle is the 'Elf', taking natural materials paint, made from natural pigments & oil, & canvas, again made from natural fibres, & turning them into art. Along comes the 'official', symbolic of men, & says it should have been used to fix his neighbour's leaking roof. The Elves tendency is to take nature, & embalm it into ART. Pushed to an extreme, in the Elves ideal world, nothing would change at all. Their ideal model is the Undying Lands. The desire for the past is a desire for a 'fixed' reality. the past cannot change. Effectively, they would HAVE to freeze everything into a perfect frozen moment, a perfect picure in which they can wander, or just stand & admire. Men can be seen as active, moving forward into the future, Elves as passive, seeking to stay frozen in their idealised past. (I tried these ideas elsewhere & got shot down. Anyone here agree with me?) __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."