The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
Old 08-05-2002, 06:22 PM   #1
Legolas
A Northern Soul
 
Legolas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Valinor
Posts: 1,847
Legolas has just left Hobbiton.
Sting uh.. wots a maiar ???/

Through my own observations and the comments of others, it has come to my attention that "Maiar" is not a term many members of the forum understand totally (some not even partially). Because of this lack of understanding, the word is tossed around and assigned to anything that seems to be less than a Valar, but more than a physically incarnate being as a cop out.

From The Silmarillion,

Quote:
With the Valar came other spirits whose being also began before the World, of the same order as the Valar but of less degree. These are the Maiar, the people of the Valar, and their servants and helpers. Their number is not known to the Elves, and few have names in any of the tongues of the Children of Ilúvatar; for though it is otherwise in Aman, in Middle-earth the Maiar have seldom appeared in form visible to Elves and Men.
The beings known as the Ainur existed before Ea (Ea = creation, the universe, etc.). When he spoke it into existence, he allowed those that were more interested to enter. There ARE other Ainur that exist outside of Ea though. The greatest of these that entered Arda were the Valar, and their servants were the Maiar. The Ainur that exist outside of Ea are not classified as Valar or Maiar...they just simply members of the Ainur race. In HoME 10 (Morgoth's Ring), it is noted that "the Maiar" was originally written as "the beautiful." Put simply, they are the servants of the Valar. Each Maia is associated with a specific Vala(r).

There are numerous problems with considering beings (like Tom Bombadil, Ungoliant, dragons...) of the Maiar order (or any other 'race' Tolkien described so thoroughly) when it is not explicitly stated so. Why would Tolkien spend so much time in The Silmarillion listing Maiar and then fail to mention that a couple were? If he intended them to be included in that classification, it seems certain that he would say so.

For example, Ungoliant served no Valar and came in the world after it was finished. The following from Letter No. 20 that is speaking of the Ainur that Eru placed in this realm (the Valar and Maiar) proves these points. It is also suspicious because she seemingly produced her own children (was there a huge male spider around too?) and she died when she ate herself, meaning she was dependent upon her physical being.

Quote:
Those who became most involved in this work of An, as it was in the first instance, became so engrossed with it, that when the Creator made it real (that is, gave it the secondary reality, subordinate to his own, which we call primary reality, and so in that hierarchy on the same plane with themselves) they desired to enter into it, from the beginning of its 'realization'.
They were allowed to do so, and the great among them became the equivalent of the 'gods' of traditional mythologies; but a condition was that they would remain 'in it' until the Story was finished. They were thus in the world, but not of a kind whose essential nature is to be physically incarnate. They were self-incarnated, if they wished; but their incarnate forms were more analogous to our clothes than to our bodies, except that they were more than are clothes the expression of their desires, moods, wills and functions.
A major part of the misunderstanding seems to be that people don't realize what the words 'Valar' and 'Maiar' are. They aren't races such as elves and dwarves, but designated titles that, in meaning, describe the role of the beings they include. As stated earlier, the Maiar are 'the servants of the Valar' and the Valar are 'the powers (of Arda)'...that is what makes them different from the other Ainur (those that exist outside of Ea). So. subsequently (and obviously, for those of you who have read what I've said so far), if any being you encounter is not a ruling power of Arda, the being is not a Vala (which is pretty easy to determine since there are only 14); if the being is not a servant of a Valar, then the being is not a Maia.

Maiar that Tolkien told us about:

Ilmare, Eonwe, Osse, Uinen, Melian, Olorin (Gandalf/Mithrandir), Sauron (Gorthaur the Cruel), Salmar, Arien, Tilion, Curunir (Curumo/Saruman), Radagast, Alatar, Pallando, and "the Valaraukar, the scourges of fire that in Middle-earth were called the Balrogs, demons of terror."

This was, in part, prompted by another thread on 'Maiar' in which Stephanos asked if there were other Ainur that exist outside of Ea. This has been answered...yes, there are Ainur that exist outside of Ea, although they are not designated as Valar and Maiar (those classifications are strictly used for identifying their purpose/role in Ea). He also used another word in that thread -"ëalar" - that identifies those beings that exist outside of Ea. Ealar is a more general term, and since Ainur already covers the race we know about, then it is possible that there are other races that exist outside of Ea that we do not know about.
__________________
...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

Last edited by Legolas; 05-19-2004 at 10:12 PM.
Legolas is offline   Reply With Quote
 


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:26 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.