Elven immortality after the demise of ME - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

01-21-2004, 04:56 PM

I'll admit up front that I have yet to read either The Silmarillion or HoME, so I hope this topic isn't well-trodden territory.

My question concerns the immortality of the Eldar, and where it fits in with Eru's grand scheme. As I understand it, the Elves are a race inextricably linked to the physical world of ME, so that even when they pass west into the Undying Lands, they remain corporeal beings, their spirits contained in bodies that, however fair, are still imperfect, subject to hunger, pain, and the caprices of nature.

Compare this to the fate of Men, who by virtue of their mortality (the Gift of Eru), are doomed to live and suffer in the world for only a short while, after which their bodies die and their spirits are set free, presumably to flutter off into space to dwell with Eru and bask in his warm glowing warming glow.

So I was wondering: What happens after that? (Like way, way far into the future, at the end of history when Eru's plan for ME is complete?) When the world ultimately snuffs it, does that mean the spirits of the Eldar would at last be set free to fly up to The Happy Place to be with the Big Guy and the ghosts of all their long-dead friends? Or will they still remain trapped in those clunky old bodies, endlessly roaming the terrain of some rootless patch of Undying Land, floating free in the ether, isolated forever from everything and everybody they ever loved? Because if that's the case, I don't wanna be an Elf no more. (D'oh! I keep forgetting I'm an orc!)

You guys are all Tolkien scholars; any thoughts on the subject?

P.S. I just thought of another thing: If only Eldar are allowed access to the Undying Lands (with the one or three exceptions given in LOTR) does that mean there are no plants or animals there? Because, for an Elf, I would think an eternal existence without birds and trees to commune with and sing to and stuff would be something closer to torture than paradise, no?

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 6:09 PM January 21, 2004: Message edited by: The Last Good Orc ]

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 6:53 PM January 21, 2004: Message edited by: The Last Good Orc ]

01-21-2004, 04:56 PM	#1
The Last Good Orc Guest Posts: n/a	Elven immortality after the demise of ME I'll admit up front that I have yet to read either The Silmarillion or HoME, so I hope this topic isn't well-trodden territory. My question concerns the immortality of the Eldar, and where it fits in with Eru's grand scheme. As I understand it, the Elves are a race inextricably linked to the physical world of ME, so that even when they pass west into the Undying Lands, they remain corporeal beings, their spirits contained in bodies that, however fair, are still imperfect, subject to hunger, pain, and the caprices of nature. Compare this to the fate of Men, who by virtue of their mortality (the Gift of Eru), are doomed to live and suffer in the world for only a short while, after which their bodies die and their spirits are set free, presumably to flutter off into space to dwell with Eru and bask in his warm glowing warming glow. So I was wondering: What happens after that? (Like way, way far into the future, at the end of history when Eru's plan for ME is complete?) When the world ultimately snuffs it, does that mean the spirits of the Eldar would at last be set free to fly up to The Happy Place to be with the Big Guy and the ghosts of all their long-dead friends? Or will they still remain trapped in those clunky old bodies, endlessly roaming the terrain of some rootless patch of Undying Land, floating free in the ether, isolated forever from everything and everybody they ever loved? Because if that's the case, I don't wanna be an Elf no more. (D'oh! I keep forgetting I'm an orc!) You guys are all Tolkien scholars; any thoughts on the subject? P.S. I just thought of another thing: If only Eldar are allowed access to the Undying Lands (with the one or three exceptions given in LOTR) does that mean there are no plants or animals there? Because, for an Elf, I would think an eternal existence without birds and trees to commune with and sing to and stuff would be something closer to torture than paradise, no? <font size=1 color=339966>[ 6:09 PM January 21, 2004: Message edited by: The Last Good Orc ] <font size=1 color=339966>[ 6:53 PM January 21, 2004: Message edited by: The Last Good Orc ]