Tolkien & killling?

[aragornreborn]

Blue is a concept that can be physically demonstrated and tested, we can never KNOW those things which we cannot test. Regardless, this doesn't mean they aren't there, just that we can't know them. Many of the rules imposed as religious truths and rights and wrongs are there for practical reasons. Incest is WRONG according to almost every culture, but if a brother and sister grow up alone, without a social code to tell them that it is, are they wrong for acting on their instincts? Can you judge them as evil or bad? Strong taboos are put in place for our protection in most cases, that does not make them absolute.

I agree that we can not completely know anything outside the realm of the physical world. I've said that. That's why belief in the super-natural requires and is faith. You seem to believe that the absolutes or standards that we are discussing are man-made, however - which is impossible because man has a myriad of different opinions on what standards should be. The standards must exist outside of man and culture. You're right, if standards were made by men or by cultures, then yes they wouldn't be absolute. But man can not create absolutes.

You hit the nail on the head when you said we can't understand the things otherwise. I think we can't truly understand them anyway. Who's to say we are getting the right meaning from parables and metaphors anyway? I have heard numerous interpretations of most, if not all, of the ones you allude to. If we translate the divine to the mundane we must lose something.

In a sense you are right. One can never truly KNOW the truth about religion or completely understand the divine. If we could completely understand the divine, we would be on the same level as the divine. I'm not saying that all religious truth is understandable. I'm saying the truth exists (and that the divine can communicate to the heart, soul, and mind of a person). And religious truth is understandable to an extent, otherwise it would be of no use and there might as well not be any religious truth. But as Daughter of Vana said, you may not understand gravity completely; but you know it exists, you know its effects, and you know enough about it to get along.

Ahh, meant by whom? It's then that you get into the realms of belief and opinion. If you believe there is an absolute truth, fine, I can't disprove it. What I object to is the insistence that any one interpretation of that truth is the -right- one. As I was saying before, might we not all be calling the wrong fruit an apple? I'm not saying you have to believe it, just be open to the possibility that interpretation is in the eye of the interpreter

The truth is meant to be interpreted as the creator wishes it to be interpreted – which is not in the manner of belief or opinion but fact. In order for absolutes to exist, there must be only one interpretation. Otherwise they’re not absolutes. I agree that man’s interpretation is often flawed, but the truth remains and is able to be grasped.

Now we're completely off topic. :applause!:

Well, LOL, that’s why I often tack on a little sentence or two to relate it back to the topic. Like this… This whole discussion, in my view, shows that in any world, our world and Middle Earth, there must be a set of absolute, comprehensible standards by which men can make the right decisions. I think Tolkien felt that way, too. Tolkien hated war. I hate war. I hate the death, the destruction, and sadness that war causes. But the fact is, sometimes war is necessary – certain situations require that in the name of what it right and true we intervene militarily. And the only way we can make decisions, especially when they are of such great magnitude and importance as whether to go to war or not, is if we have a set of standards for what is right and wrong – what is true and false.