Hurin and despair

[Kuruharan]

Turin has a long history of poor choices even when *not* beclouded by a dragon.

-and-

This is quite a sweeping statement Morwen, the whole Narn is written in such a deep shade of grey that even some of Turins 'poorest choices' have or produce elements of goodness and hope along the way.

Numenorean:While I do not want to discount (or seem like I am discounting) your assessments of good being brought out of evil or of the extent of the influence of Morgoth, I am still inclined to agree with Morwen. Turin did have a history of bad choices. He had a rather unstable personality. Remember Melian warning him early in his life to "fear both the heat and cold of his heart." I think that this shows a certain predisposition on Turin's part to rash deeds and poor decision making, apart from any influence by Morgoth's curse.

Someone like Brandir could be thoughtful and considerate of others, but wouldn't men of action like Hurin and Turin be, by definition, of a more reckless stamp?

Not necessarily. "Men of Action" come in many varieties. Some are more cautious and thoughtful than others. Aragorn for instance strikes me as being a man of action but he does not strike me as being a rash man. He is capable of taking risks and making gambles, but he does not do so without taking due thought.

And let us not forget that Hurin and Turin had rather different personalities. Hurin always struck me as being a bit more, well, Steadfast, than Turin. Turin seemed to be a bit more flighty.

As I said above, I think that Morgoth would have cursed Hurin's family regardless even if Hurin had not taunted him. I personally don't consider Hurin's words to be a rash action. He was in a bad situation and it was going to be bad no matter what he did.

Turin, on the other hand, had a bit of a habit of taking awkward situations and making them worse. Note the Saeros affair as an example of this. The example of the destruction of Nargothrond might also apply.

I also wonder what influence Morwen's personality had on events. I have to confess that I have never been fond of Morwen (the character in the book that is, not our good fellow conversationalist in this discussion). She also had a habit of being just a trifle mule-headed at times. Examples: her refusal to go south with Turin, and her mad expedition to Nargothrond. The little trip to Nargothrond in particular made things infinitely worse.

(I have always jokingly said that the thing that prepared Hurin to resist Morgoth so well was being married to Morwen. It might have seemed like a vacation. )

In all seriousness does anybody else have any thoughts on how Morwen influenced the Hurin/Turin situation for good or ill?