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07-11-2002, 01:28 PM | #1 |
Auspicious Wraith
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The Maia
This'll only need a simple answer. Did Eru create the Maia just out of the blue to serve the Valar?
And have I spelt Maia right?
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07-11-2002, 01:49 PM | #2 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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Eru creasted the Ainur to help make Arda. Some of the Ainur went to Arda and became the Valar, or Powers of the World. Lesser Ainur also went with the Valar. These were the Maiar. They weren't created to serve the Valar, they just did. Melkor also got some Maiar to join him i.e. Sauro and the Balrogs. That gets me thinking, did any Ainur stay with Eru, or did they all come to Arda?
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07-11-2002, 01:53 PM | #3 | |
Hidden Spirit
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Quote:
[ July 11, 2002: Message edited by: burrahobbit ]
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07-11-2002, 01:58 PM | #4 |
The Perilous Poet
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In the land of ambiguity, burra is king.
Since burra's edit, I have reclaimed the title. [ July 11, 2002: Message edited by: Stephanos ]
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07-11-2002, 04:07 PM | #5 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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In the Silmarillion it is said
Quote:
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07-12-2002, 06:20 AM | #6 |
Auspicious Wraith
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The Balrogs were Maiar?
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07-12-2002, 07:42 AM | #7 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
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Yes.
"For of the Maiar many were drawn to his splendour in the days of his greatness, and remained in that allegiance down into his darkness; and others he corrupted afterwards to his service with lies and treacherous gifts. Dreadful among these spirits were the Valaraukar, the scourges of fire that in Middle-earth were called the Balrogs, demons of terror." -The Valaquenta
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07-12-2002, 08:55 AM | #8 |
A Northern Soul
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A list of the Maiar Tolkien speaks of in the Silmarillion - Ilmare, Eonwe, Osse, Uinen, Melian, Olorin (Gandalf/Mithrandir), Sauron (Gorthaur the Cruel), Salmar, Arien, Tilion, Curunir, Radagast, "others of the Istari who went into the east of Middle-earth, and do not come into these tales" (being Alatar and Pallando), and "the Valaraukar, the scourges of fire that in Middle-earth were called the Balrogs, demons of terror."
Thuringwethil and Ungoliant are also possibilities, as is, in the opinion of some, Tom Bombadil. That's another story for another day though. [ July 13, 2002: Message edited by: Legalos ]
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07-12-2002, 09:12 AM | #9 |
The Perilous Poet
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Tom Bombadil was a Maia? Hmm, worthy of discussion!
Bwa and indeed hahahaahaha!!!
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07-12-2002, 09:28 AM | #10 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
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*cough* Dragons! *cough*
[img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
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07-12-2002, 11:00 AM | #11 |
The Perilous Poet
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Aren't Dragons simply winged Balrogs?
[img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
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07-12-2002, 11:25 AM | #12 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Then I guess the Coldrakes are winged balrogs who swallowed to much icecream...
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07-12-2002, 12:47 PM | #13 |
Wight
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Dragons are not winged balrogs. They are creations of Morgoth, balrogs are Maiar that were corrupted. Also, many dragons did not have wings (Glaruung -which I'm sure I spelled wrong- did not). It was only in the final battle between Morgoth and the host of the Valar that winged dragons appear. There is some debate as to whether balrogs have wings.
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07-12-2002, 12:52 PM | #14 |
The Perilous Poet
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Debate? Wings? Balrogs? Has the art of irony finally died? [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]
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07-12-2002, 12:59 PM | #15 |
Desultory Dwimmerlaik
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Stephanos - Here's an interesting thread that just resurfaced on Balrogs and Wings:
Fly? [ July 12, 2002: Message edited by: piosenniel ]
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07-12-2002, 01:21 PM | #16 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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I thought Dragons were lizards that Morgoth bred, like the monsters he created from other animals.
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07-12-2002, 01:26 PM | #17 |
The Perilous Poet
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Oh for goodness sake, I give up.
Give me a 'sar'! Give me a 'casm'!
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07-14-2002, 01:25 PM | #18 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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Were there Maiar other than Balrogs and Sauron who joined Morgoth?
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07-14-2002, 03:34 PM | #19 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
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*cough* Dragons *cough* [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
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07-14-2002, 04:50 PM | #20 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Dare you?!
By the way, I'm pretty sure I won that debate. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] |
07-14-2002, 06:44 PM | #21 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
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No. Not really. I just gave up trying to argue with you because obviously nobody was making any progress in convincing anyone of anything. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
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07-15-2002, 12:07 PM | #22 |
The Perilous Poet
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Yes, Aldagrim, although in absence of text I shall not say that with finality. From memory, however, I will draw attention to the line I believe found in the Valaquenta, "He gathered to himself many lesser spirits". Tolkien's pantheon comprised several gradings of spirit, from Valar, through Maia and below.
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07-15-2002, 12:17 PM | #23 |
Haunting Spirit
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The only real divisions(aside from perhaps potency and power but that is just your standard population diversity) of 'spirits', that I am aware of, which Tolkien seems to present are:
[ July 15, 2002: Message edited by: Fingolfin of the Noldor ]
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07-15-2002, 01:14 PM | #24 |
The Perilous Poet
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Hmm, but of the ëalor, were there not others than the Valar and Maiar? I have this opinion yet my texts are in my homeland some great distance away and thus I cannot find language to support my thought in this.
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08-05-2002, 07:23 PM | #25 |
A Northern Soul
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Yes. For more info, click here.
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