Riddles in the Downs

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

The line I keep getting drawn to is ghastly noises. Bombadil telling them to not need any nightly noises. But I’ll keep thinking.

Good thinking. You're getting warmer.

And yes, it is in LOTR.

[Galadriel55]

Reposting for new page.


To black without light
Comes crescent bright.
It brings the shadow of a friend
And shade of fear from distant land.

Wake up from carefree reverie
To grim and false reality!
Inside the wood, by its long boughs
Don't listen to the ghastly sounds.

The quiet broken by a splash,
A stream that gives way to a pool.
Yet evil is this water cool -
It does not matter. Naught shall pass.

The wood is dead. It ceased to grow.
Its waters can no longer flow.
Just one is happy and serene,
Alone amid a frightful scene.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Urwen

So someone awoke someone else from a pleasant dream?

?

[Urwen]

It is their dreams. Hobbit dreams at Tom's house. Their collective dreams fit perfectly.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

It is their dreams. Hobbit dreams at Tom's house. Their collective dreams fit perfectly.

Indeed it is! In fact, here is the exact passage:

Originally Posted by FOTR

In the dead night, Frodo lay in a dream without light. Then he saw the young moon rising; under its thin light there loomed before him a black wall of rock, pierced by a dark arch like a great gate. It seemed to Frodo that he was lifted up, and passing over he saw that the rock-wall was a circle of hills, and that within it was a plain, and in the midst of the plain stood a pinnacle of stone, like a vast tower but not made by hands. On its top stood the figure of a man. The moon as it rose seemed to hang for a moment above his head and glistened in his white hair as the wind stirred it. Up from the dark plain below came the crying of fell voices, and the howling of many wolves. Suddenly a shadow, like the shape of great wings, passed across the moon. The figure lifted his arms and a light flashed from the staff that he wielded. A mighty eagle swept down and bore him away. The voices wailed and the wolves yammered. There was a noise like a strong wind blowing, and on it was borne the sound of hoofs, galloping, galloping, galloping from the East. ‘Black Riders!’ thought Frodo as he wakened, with the sound of the hoofs still echoing in his mind. He wondered if he would ever again have the courage to leave the safety of these stone walls. He lay motionless, still listening; but all was now silent, and at last he turned and fell asleep again or wandered into some other unremembered dream.

At his side Pippin lay dreaming pleasantly; but a change came over his dreams and he turned and groaned. Suddenly he woke, or thought he had waked, and yet still heard in the darkness the sound that had disturbed his dream: tip-tap, squeak: the noise was like branches fretting in the wind, twig-fingers scraping wall and window: creak, creak, creak. He wondered if there were willow-trees close to the house; and then suddenly he had a dreadful feeling that he was not in an ordinary house at all, but inside the willow and listening to that horrible dry creaking voice laughing at him again. He sat up, and felt the soft pillows yield to his hands, and he lay down again relieved. He seemed to hear the echo of words in his ears: ‘Fear nothing! Have peace until the morning! Heed no nightly noises!’ Then he went to sleep again.

It was the sound of water that Merry heard falling into his quiet sleep: water streaming down gently, and then spreading, spreading irresistibly all round the house into a dark shoreless pool. It gurgled under the walls, and was rising slowly but surely. ‘I shall be drowned!’ he thought. It will find its way in, and then I shall drown.’ He felt that he was lying in a soft slimy bog, and springing up he set his fool on the corner of a cold hard flagstone. Then he remembered where he was and lay down again. He seemed to hear or remember hearing: ‘Nothing passes doors or windows save moonlight and starlight and the wind off the hill-top.’ A little breath of sweet air moved the curtain. He breathed deep and fell asleep again.

As far as he could remember, Sam slept through the night in deep content, if logs are contented.

Over to you.

[Urwen]

As for the references, here they come


To black without light - Frodo lay in a dream without light.
Comes crescent bright. - Then he saw the young moon rising; under its thin light there loomed before him a black wall of rock
It brings the shadow of a friend - Suddenly a shadow, like the shape of great wings, passed across the moon. The figure lifted his arms and a light flashed from the staff that he wielded. A mighty eagle swept down and bore him away.
And shade of fear from distant land. - There was a noise like a strong wind blowing, and on it was borne the sound of hoofs, galloping, galloping, galloping from the East. 'Black Riders!' thought Frodo as he wakened, with the sound of the hoofs still echoing in his mind.

Wake up from carefree reverie - At his side Pippin lay dreaming pleasantly; but a change came over his dreams and he turned and groaned.
To grim and false reality! - Suddenly he woke, or thought he had waked, and yet still heard in the darkness the sound that had disturbed his dream: tip-tap, squeak;
Inside the wood, by its long boughs
Don't listen to the ghastly sounds. - the noise was like branches fretting in the wind, twig-fingers scraping wall and window: creak, creak, creak. He wondered if there were willow-trees close to the house; and then suddenly he had a dreadful feeling that he was not in an ordinary house at all, but inside the willow and listening to that horrible dry creaking voice laughing at him again.

The quiet broken by a splash, - It was the sound of water that Merry heard falling into his quiet sleep
A stream that gives way to a pool. - water streaming down gently, and then spreading, spreading irresistibly all round the house into a dark shoreless poo
Yet evil is this water cool -It gurgled under the walls, and was rising slowly but surely. 'I shall be drowned!' he thought. It will find its way in, and then I shall drown.'
It does not matter. Naught shall pass. - 'Nothing passes doors or windows save moonlight and starlight and the wind off the hill-top.'

The wood is dead. It ceased to grow.
Its waters can no longer flow.
Just one is happy and serene,
Alone amid a frightful scene. -
As far as he could remember, Sam slept through the night in deep content, if logs are contented.

[Urwen]

Well, I need to go to bed, as I need to get up early tomorrow, so I will post something when I wake up.

[Urwen]

Well, let's see if I can make a good one.


Where I came from
I'll tell you now
I'm descendant of the friend
Of the one who strayed

I am the one who came to aid
To the army of the land of stone
I am the one who took part
In the plans to help destroy the One

Here is where I became the helper
To my future family member
My nephew dear wed her
My daughter wed her brother

(Given my track record, the last verse will probably make it too easy...)

[Huinesoron]

You being you, is it Hurin? I'm not sure about the first verse, but:

I am the one who came to aid
To the army of the land of stone
I am the one who took part
In the plans to help destroy the One


Gondolin is a "land of stone" - most of its names have a stone-word in them somewhere; Hurin was captured guarding the retreat of Turgon's army. The "plans to help destroy the One" would refer to the Nirnaeth, which was planned to destroy Morgoth, in which Hurin took part.

Here is where I became the helper
To my future family member
My nephew dear wed her

By rescuing Turgon, Hurin helped Idril by not getting her city overrun (at that point)*. She later went on to marry his nephew Tuor, making her a future member of his family.

*I guess she might also have been present? Tolkien doesn't mention either way, but she could have been support/healing personnel.

My daughter wed her brother

The natural read of 'her' is back to the 'future family member', but, er... Hurin's daughter wed her (own) brother. ^_~

hS

[Urwen]

Nope. 'her' in the last line refers to the brother of his nephew's bride, not daughter's brother...

And there is a reason 'One' is capitalized...

Trust me, when you find the answer, every line will make sense.

[Galadriel55]

Well, the Land of Stone could be Gondor. I initially thought Aragorn, but I am not aware that he had any siblings to give him nephews. However, Imrahil of Dol-Amroth fits nicely.



Where I came from - Dol Amroth
I'll tell you now
I'm descendant of the friend - the Elvish blood that Legolas instantly recognizes
Of the one who strayed - Nimrodel and her friend... forget her name. Something with a Z?

I am the one who came to aid
To the army of the land of stone - the knights of Dol-Amroth, marching to Minas Tirith
I am the one who took part
In the plans to help destroy the One - part of the Last Council, planning what to do not just with the one big Enemy but with the One Ring.

Here is where I became the helper
To my future family member - by recognizing Eowyn is alive
My nephew dear wed her - As I recall, Faramir is his nephew
My daughter wed her brother - As I don't recall but is entirely possible, Eomer wed his daughter presumably

[Urwen]

Precisely.

[Galadriel55]

Don't have the energy for proper poetry, but equally no energy for proper difficulty. Should be an easy one.



In dark night
In strange land
We must press
On our quest.

By your house
We stand tall,
As if guards
If not guests.

The morn comes,
Our quest calls.
We must away
Ere break of day.

We're not what
They first thought.
A garb shall
Be our mark.

[Morsul the Dark]

Lommy! Wait wrong thread.

I feel like the Huorn fit but this riddle seems more sinister although I suppose they are. Also the end verse definitely doesn’t work

[Galadriel55]

Not Huorns, but I thought they might be a consideration.

[Urwen]

Sounds to me like riders of Rohan riding to Gondor...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

The last part makes me think of the Dead of Dunharrow, but not sure if all of the rest would fit completely... The second part makes me think of the Púkel-men in that connection, but then again, "tall" is not the adjective one would use about them, of all...

[Galadriel55]

'Fraid not. They are indeed tall, quite so. Rohan/Pukel-men are both in the wrong direction.

[Urwen]

So someone is literally standing by someone's house? Literally?

Misty Mountains? They protect the House of Elrond and are very tall...

[Huinesoron]

I was wondering about "a garb shall be our mark", and remembered that the Rangers of Arnor wore a silver star. They're also noted for being tall, and for standing guard over the Shire and surrounding communities. And they're rather more than most people take them for at first glance.

If the "quest" is more than just a synonym for 'task', it could point specifically at the Grey Company. Did they have that name because they wore grey? Apparently they did, so I think they work really well.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Neither Rangers nor mountains. Urwen, aside from being tall, mountains don't fulfill any other requirements of the riddle.

Would it help if I told you that in describing this event sequence, I conveniently omitted certain actions that would give it away entirely? There is a bit more to this story that went unsaid.

[Huinesoron]

What I like about this riddle is that it's relatively easy to hit any three of the verses, but very tricky to meet all four.

It's not the Black Riders in the Shire, is it? Verse 2 is the tricky one there, and:

Originally Posted by FotR: A Knife in the Dark

Outside the gate they stopped, and three black figures entered, like shades of night creeping across the ground. One went to the door, one to the corner of the house on either side; and there they stood, as still as the shadows of stones, while night went slowly on.

And they are Big Folk.

EDIT: "We're not what they first thought" - the Bucklanders thought it could be 'some strange invasion from the Old Forest'. "A garb shall be our mark" - they drop a Hobbit cloak while riding away. (Which shows them to be a lot subtler than Jackson would have it...)

hS

[Galadriel55]

Yes indeed! The Black Riders at Crickhollow. Over to you Hui!

[Huinesoron]

Inspired by the chronological style of that one:

Created, blessed,
Guarded, repossessed,
Coveted, worn,
Rescued, borne,
Devoured, retrieved,
Worn again, thieved,
Reclaimed, worn,
Fought over, borne,
Worn once more, fallen,
Bound upon, followed,
Carried high, seen,
Who have I been?

hS

[Morsul the Dark]

It’s almost too obvious to be the right answer but the ring fits pretty much perfect.

Crated and blessed by Sauron (would you call that blessed not sure but to him it is.)

Guarded/repossessed is a bit tricky Guarded could be Sauron or isildur

Coveted worn Isildur taking the ring for himself


Next few lines could be Gollum then thieved of course by Bilbo

Then the rest is easily the quest

[Huinesoron]

It is not the Ring. That would've required a 'lost' or somesuch between Worn (by Isildur) and Rescued (by Gollum); the answer here was never lost.

But I do like your thinking.

hS

[Urwen]

The first three lines scream 'The Silmarils'. I'll see if I can fit the rest

[Urwen]

Created, blessed,
Guarded, repossessed, - Self-explanatory
Coveted, worn, - Coveted and worn by Morgoth, as part of his crown
Rescued, borne, - Rescued from Morgoth by Beren, Eagles carried it along with him.
Devoured, retrieved, - Devoured by ole' Carcharoth, retrieved when he was killed.
Worn again, thieved,
Reclaimed, worn, -
Dior wore them after his parents died; coveted by Thingol, and later on, by Dwarves of Belegost; Dior reclaimed it from them and wore it again Fought over, borne, - The Battle of the Havens, carried off by Elwing
Worn once more, fallen, - With Maedhros
Bound upon, followed,
Carried high, seen, - As the Star of Earendil
Who have I been?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

The first three lines scream 'The Silmarils'. I'll see if I can fit the rest

Yep! Specifically Earendil's, which you called out in your full explanation. Good answer, over to you.

hS

[Urwen]

Okay, here is a quick one, because I am lazy.

Splish splash
And a clash
Don't be rash
Or you will thrash.

[Galadriel55]

I will throw out a guess of Gollum in the pool of Henneth Annun. Don't go for the fishies, or the Rangers will get you.

[Urwen]

I kinda had something else in mind, but I forgot what, and your answer fits. So you can have the next round.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I kinda had something else in mind, but I forgot what, and your answer fits. So you can have the next round.

Thanks. I am actually having a very busy time IRL right now though, I don't really have the time or the mental energy to write a riddle. So I will pass up the turn and open the floor to whoever wants to have a go.

[Urwen]

Anyone?

[Galadriel55]

I figured that as I have some claim to this thread, I will start here. Here is some stream of consciousness poetry for a riddle. Please try to identify/explain specific elements in your answer.


The oldest one, the nameless one,
Did not know warmth of shining sun.
But in the darkness shone the stars,
And in their light, from countries far
The Second came in second's turn -
But, in the end, though day was won,
Who twice had torched, third time must burn.

But better known in tale of years
The younger sisters - one for tears,
And one for joy, resounding joy
Which yet failed darkness to destroy;
But peace was guarded well, until
Twixt triumph great and ruin great -
But stopping short of western hills -
A burst reversed the tides of fate,
Breaking resistance, kindling dread,
Incinerating every shred
Of estel in the lord now dead
Whose line was estel to beget.

I'm not the least, but I'm the last.
The closing rage of hardships past,
Of foes and heroes both long gone.
You cannot count us on one hand -
Though brief our line, 'tis yet too long,
And we destroyed our motherland.
I am the end. I am the start.
I split the thread of time apart.

[Pervinca Took]

Is verse 1 the 1st and 2nd elf, and then Feanor burning the ships and ... not sure what else, then getting killed by a Balrog?

[Urwen]

The first three lines of verse 2 sound like Turin, Nienor and Lalaith.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Is verse 1 the 1st and 2nd elf, and then Feanor burning the ships and ... not sure what else, then getting killed by a Balrog?

Feanor burning stuff and getting killed is in verse 1, correct. But he is not the focus of the riddle. And I'm not sure who you mean by first and second Elf, but that is not it. It might be easier to interpret "Second" in relation to Feanor - those elements are connected.

Originally Posted by Urwen

The first three lines of verse 2 sound like Turin, Nienor and Lalaith.

I knew that these lines would sound like the Hin Hurin lot, and purposefully played up the parallel. However, these three don't figure in the riddle.

[Urwen]

That sounds like Maglor, Feanor's second son and the last survivor of his line outside of Aman.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

That sounds like Maglor, Feanor's second son and the last survivor of his line outside of Aman.

Alas, not Maglor. Think more broad. You might also have more luck getting to the root of the riddle with the latter stanzas.