Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXIV – The Evil Breath of Morgoth in Dor-lómin, game thread

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

I'm actually talking to myself here mostly btw. Another thing that is slightly unsettling me is that I was all set to vote for Eonwe but now the QT has dissed the person who was the first to vote for him.

I would say most of our days have gone far too narrow. We put ourselves into pretty much just 2 options. Day 1 was G55 and Brinn. Day 2 Mac and Huey, Yesterday Inzil and sally. Today Lommy and Inzil.

I don't know a whole lot about the advocates for it, but I think we need a day where there's a lot more spread. Force the wolves into some tougher choices, instead of just picking between 2 innocents or whether they wanted to bus wolf-Huey or not.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I am down to voting either Eonwe or Inzil.

The whole Lhuna thing is interesting, but no way I can make myself vote for her pretty much solely based on the QT-vote.

Of the two Eonwes behaviour is the one that has struck me as the most wolfish, where the wolfish traits of Inzil often have been pointed out by others before I noticed them myself. One is of course always wary of being manipulated. On the other side Inzil's attitude towards Lommy today really bothers me, and most of my grieviances with Eonwe is a bit further back (though he could be said to have been unhelpful-helpful today).

[Lalaith]

Brinniel has fallen completely under my reindeer and I consider that an issue.

This is cute.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I would say most of our days have gone far too narrow. We put ourselves into pretty much just 2 options. Day 1 was G55 and Brinn. Day 2 Mac and Huey, Yesterday Inzil and sally. Today Lommy and Inzil.

I don't know a whole lot about the advocates for it, but I think we need a day where there's a lot more spread. Force the wolves into some tougher choices, instead of just picking between 2 innocents or whether they wanted to bus wolf-Huey or not.

I agree with the sentiment but I think "whether they want to bus wolf-Huey or not" is a tough enough choice.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Since I don't know if I'll get back before the end of the Day, here is my list:

Evil
Boro
Zil
Lommy

Unsure, leaning evil
Lalaith
Rune

Unsure, neutral
Shasta
Lhuna

Unsure, leaning good
THE Ka
Lottie
Brinn
Pitch
Kath
Greenie



edit: x-ed with Lommy

I'm so confused about how I feel about this list. Parts of it I love (Boro, Lommy, Greenie, Kath, Lottie to a lesser extent) and parts of it I hate (Pitch, Rune, Ka and Lalaith to a lesser extent.)

What does it all mean?!

[Lalaith]

Force the wolves into some tougher choices, instead of just picking between 2 innocents or whether they wanted to bus wolf-Huey or not.

How do you know that's what happened on Day 1?
Hmm?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I would say most of our days have gone far too narrow. We put ourselves into pretty much just 2 options. Day 1 was G55 and Brinn. Day 2 Mac and Huey, Yesterday Inzil and sally. Today Lommy and Inzil.

I don't know a whole lot about the advocates for it, but I think we need a day where there's a lot more spread. Force the wolves into some tougher choices, instead of just picking between 2 innocents or whether they wanted to bus wolf-Huey or not.

I do not at all feel that the day has been narrowed to Lommy and Inzil.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

This seems a bit of an odd turnaround, Rune.

What is?

The Lommy comments?

Can't I find behaviour unhelpful and even suspicious without it automatically qualifying a person for being a quarantine candidate?

Or were you referring to something else?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Except for (as I took it at the time) Zil himself, which is why I didn't want to vote him. Ironically, considering what I posted yesterDay before the sally debacle, I'm beginning to think Zil may well be innocent after all. I'm still wondering about you.
But it's true, like Lal said and Mac yesterDay, those of us who didn't want sally lynched screwed it up bigtime.

This post gives me all the creepy vibes.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I agree with the sentiment but I think "whether they want to bus wolf-Huey or not" is a tough enough choice.

To add: a tough enough choice that we still haven't scrutinised to my satisfaction.

Originally Posted by Shasta

I do not at all feel that the day has been narrowed to Lommy and Inzil.

If you look at the discussion, it feels like that; if you look at the actual votes + mock votes + who people have said they're considering voting, you're right. Really not sure what to make of that.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

How do you know that's what happened on Day 1?
Hmm?

I'm willing to bet G55 and Huey had fun trolling us for 2 days in the QT.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

What is?

The Lommy comments?

Can't I find behaviour unhelpful and even suspicious without it automatically qualifying a person for being a quarantine candidate?

Or were you referring to something else?

It sounds, to me, like in the first post you're suspicious of her, then in the second, you absolutely don't want to vote her (which translates into not being suspicious of her, to me.) People change their minds, of course, but that seemed to take place in a very short timespan. It drew my eye because I suspect Lommy, so it was like, "Yeah, I agree with this - wait, what?"

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I would say most of our days have gone far too narrow. We put ourselves into pretty much just 2 options. Day 1 was G55 and Brinn. Day 2 Mac and Huey, Yesterday Inzil and sally. Today Lommy and Inzil.

I don't know a whole lot about the advocates for it, but I think we need a day where there's a lot more spread. Force the wolves into some tougher choices, instead of just picking between 2 innocents or whether they wanted to bus wolf-Huey or not.

This makes me really not want to vote Boro toDay.

I don't like doing this while he's away, and I've been second-guessing it quite a bit after Lhuna's vote and the QT vote, but I might as well.

++Eönwë

[Lalaith]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I'm willing to bet G55 and Huey had fun trolling us for 2 days in the QT.

so presumably you think Zil is innocent too?

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

This post gives me all the creepy vibes.

Explain.

[Thinlómien]

Lhuna -> Eönwë
Eönwë -> Boro
QT -> Lhuna
Inzil -> Lommy
Lottie -> Boro 2
Greenie -> Zil
The Ka -> Lhuna 2
Pitchwife -> Eönwë 2

Half an hour to go. 7 votes left.

[Lalaith]

Ok. I've gone away, I've had a glass of wine and a think and here's what.

I feel quiet disempowered by yesterDay's shambles. I haven't had a proper chance to re-evaluate.
In the QT there are two people who successfully voted for a wolf (Kit and Legate)
I am going to trust them.
++Lhuna

[Pitchwife]

[Incidentally: +1000 posts on D4? Whole games have played out on less than half that. This is really insane.

++tweet-style character/post-capped game

TIG CXV - The Liar Tweets Tonight?]

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Shasta -> Sally 8

"-shrug emoji-" From a person who was pretty loud that we should lynch Sally regardless of her role? Really?

If my, like, two posts stating a differing opinion to the majority qualifies as "pretty loud", what does that make you? Ear-shattering?

Originally Posted by Lommy

Thoughts: I'm not super keen on Lalaith and Shasta's votes, the former voting Sally without even saying whether she believes her or not, the latter voting Sally despite thinking it's a bad idea. Brinn's attitude towards the whole debacle looks super safe, but not necessarily sinister.

I explained that already - I'm used to Hunters that the wolves have to kill, and you had a point; wolves wouldn't necessarily have had to kill a revealed Hunter here. Although I do think, as I type this, the case for a wolf-Lommy going all-out to get Hunter-Sally lynched to take down a non-wolf grows... and makes Lottie look better, maybe? Hmm. Pin in that.

Back to my train of thought - I fully thought Sally was a wolf; leaving the Hunter to the wolves was an option. No one seemed to really go for it, so I was fine voting for Sally in the end. Hence the shrug.

X'ed since my last.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Explain.

"Man, we really messed up, voting the Hunter like that. Aw, shucks."

Sounds rather "agreeable", no?

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Pitch

'I think everyone who has votes so far is a possible wolf, so I'll vote for a fifth person who is a likely candidate for getting lynched." - *ping*

Why ping if said fifth person is my top suspect but I don’t have a particular problem with any of the other candidates getting lynched either? In my head this makes perfect sense.

[Kath]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Granted, someone could have rushed to analyse Lhuna's posts. It's actually a good idea, but no one did so. Now it's a little late because it would probably take at least half an hour (unless someone is already at it?). But if Lhuna is alive toMorrow, maybe we should do the dead thread a favour and have a closer look at her.

I mean, I did for her first two Days and definitely thought she was suspicious, pretty much down to her involvement in the Kit discussion. I'll carry on now but it'll have to be speedy.

Post 394:

Originally Posted by Lhuna

It just occurred to me... For all intents and purposes, a vote for G55 is still a vote for an innocent (i.e. non-wolf). Maybe it's worth looking at those who voted for G55 as well. So, shamelessly stealing and combining Boro's and Eönwë's lists (with the non-G55 or Rikae votes in double brackets)...

So she then finds me suspicious because she couldn't track my suspicion of G55; thinks Inzil was too confident in his vote for G55 given he hadn't particularly explained his suspicions; leaning innocent on Lottie; thinks Lommy is suspicious I think for being a bit gungho about the lynch of G55; some suspicion of Hui with thoughts of a Hui-Brinn wolf pair; suspicious of Brinn for the 'trap' comment that had come up quite a lot that Day.

Post 398

Originally Posted by Lhuna

No one's asking the real Ranger to come out, and frankly I doubt it needs to be said.

In response to Lottie. I did agree with the sentiment, but my issue was that this was again putting the discussion back into the light.

Post 425

Wait let me see if I get this right. If Legate is innocent it could be easy to build a case against him, so you suspected Pitch because he picked on Legate. Then you eased up on suspecting Pitch because you did not want to be caught in a bandwagon that could be orchestrated by wolves.

I'm just... Lost. Shouldn't one back off from suspecting someone because of what they said, not because you're worried about what others would think if you end up voting for an innocent? Not helping your case here.

Continued suspicion of Brinn. Had Mac, Lommy and Brinn as her possible votes, though she seemed to be almost discounting Mac in the same statement for being too obvious.

Post 431
Votes Lommy. No actual explanation in the vote post. I didn't spot anything very substantial about Lommy bar the stuff about the G55 situation.

Post 661
Mentions about catching the Hui possible slip with the wolf emails comment.

Originally Posted by Lhuna

With 5 wolves I'm not discounting a wolf on wolf even after the Huitrain started to gain serious steam (that did seem to come off left field didn't it?). But based on the voting alone I'm inclined to think Leggie innocent, it doesn't seem reasonable for a wolf to offer his packmate up to be sacrificed when he wasn't in real danger of getting lynched, or to try to convince others to vote for him.

Also, I'm not sure why Shasta appears innocent for holding his vote. It looked incredibly fishy to me, but I probably need a deeper reading for context.

This didn't stand out to me as much different to the rest of the discussion around the Hui votes. Interesting comment on Shasta.

Post 862
Gives her apologies for the no vote the Day before.

Thinks all Eonwe's votes have been suspicious; Shasta for holding his vote around the Hui lynch and flipflopping on sally; Boro for holding his vote on Hui and sort of just throwing in with the crowd on sally.

Post 948
Votes Eonwe.

Originally Posted by Lhuna

My suspicion of him based on his voting pattern stands.

If Lommy and/or Boro are wolves, then their longevity as a pack would be better served by having a couple of relatively submarine packmates. And while I'm still convinced they're both suspicious, this village has so far had the bad habit of lynching those who are in the middle of the controversy of the Day who more often than not turn out to be innocent, and I'm sick of imagining the wolves cackling to themselves as they watch. Also, giving both of them one more Day and Night's worth of scrutiny should yield something a little bit more concrete.

i'm also not convinced about how Lommy explained that killing Legate as a possible Seer places Rune in a good light. I don't think Legate would have been that vocal about dreaming of him if he were the Seer.

This I think is one of her most explained votes. She isn't wrong about the controversy driven lynches!

Post 956

Originally Posted by Lhuna

The most Seerish thing Legate did that stood out to me was encouraging a vote for Hui and looking for support. I think it's more likely he would stick his neck out, as we see in hindsight, to point out a wolf than an innocent, like he would have done with Rune on Day 1 in your scenario.

I say this because I've been thinking Rune might be another submarine wolf. Given that I suspect you, this could be a way for you to use a Seer-candidate's words to keep others from taking a closer look at Rune. And it bothers me that at least a couple of people have agreed with you about him.

Post 959

Originally Posted by Lhuna

Differing Seer tactics, I guess. I certainly wouldn't single one person out as innocent on Day 1.

This came form debating Lommy about what to look for in terms of possible Seer hints.

Comments on the QT vote: Hmm. Interesting.

I've really just pulled the biggest things from each post as I was working through them fast.

I'll have cross posted with everything from 991 onwards.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Boro is connected to Lommy in my brain. I dunno if I think he's a wolf on his own merits, but I think there's a decent case for it if Lommy is wolvish. Hmm.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Why ping if said fifth person is my top suspect but I don’t have a particular problem with any of the other candidates getting lynched either? In my head this makes perfect sense.

Amen.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I think Greenie is my best read at this point.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (<-- shrug emoji!)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Kath

Post 862
Gives her apologies for the no vote the Day before.

Thinks all Eonwe's votes have been suspicious; Shasta for holding his vote around the Hui lynch and flipflopping on sally; Boro for holding his vote on Hui and sort of just throwing in with the crowd on sally.

This is probably my biggest ping re: Lhuna.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Ok. I've gone away, I've had a glass of wine and a think and here's what.

Maybe I should try this wolf-catching method too

Originally Posted by Pitch

[Incidentally: +1000 posts on D4? Whole games have played out on less than half that. This is really insane.

++tweet-style character/post-capped game

TIG CXV - The Liar Tweets Tonight?]

I'm looking forward to you and Rune co-modding this in June.

Originally Posted by Shasta

If my, like, two posts stating a differing opinion to the majority qualifies as "pretty loud", what does that make you? Ear-shattering?

Touché.

I actually went and read Boro and Brinn's posts on Lhuna, and now there's Kath's. None of them are sources I would take without a pinch of salt , but they all do have some good arguments for Lhuna being a wolf. Plus, there's the weird bandwagon roll call she never explained, plus her quickly pointing out then shutting up about Huey's wolf slip.

Might as well put my money where my mouth is and vote before the last chaos minutes:

++Lhuna


Lhuna -> Eönwë
Eönwë -> Boro
QT -> Lhuna
Inzil -> Lommy
Lottie -> Boro 2
Greenie -> Zil
The Ka -> Lhuna 2
Pitchwife -> Eönwë 2
Lalaith -> Lhuna 3
Lommy -> Lhuna 4

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I am not going to be around for the deadline, so I will have to vote and I will trust my self on this one.

I will vote Eonwe for a number of reasons, his interaction/thoughts on Legate on Day 1, his interactions/thoughts on Kitanna on day 2 and his interactions/thoughts on Lalaith yesterday to is some of the more wolfish behaviour I have seen. He appears helpful, but often it is non-content and often tempts to play it safe.

++ Eonwe

It just struck me that on a day where I have been of no help to the village I have managed to call two other villagers for either "unhelpful-helpful" and "non-vocal"...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I have a point I'm having a very hard time articulating about Lottie being Hunter-Sally's percieved target and what that means. Maybe if I just post this, it'll help me get the words out in some sort of order.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

so presumably you think Zil is innocent too?

He is not my preferred choice today, because I think we should take the signal from the QT. It's been my argument for several days now. I want to test this proposed voting and signals between here and the QT. Other than that reason, I couldn't say.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Lhuna/Pitch/Rune all on Eonwe, making him the counterwagon to Lhuna. I'm not sure how much I trust that.

[Kath]

I mean, looking through all of that didn't lessen my suspicions, and Lhuna was my second option for the lynch toDay so:

++LHUNA

Will have cross posted since my last.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

He is not my preferred choice today, because I think we should take the signal from the QT. It's been my argument for several days now. I want to test this proposed voting and signals between here and the QT. Other than that reason, I couldn't say.

If the QT hadn't voted for Lhuna, who's your preferred choice?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I don't think a wagon I like more is going to come along at this late stage.

++Lhuna

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

If the QT hadn't voted for Lhuna, who's your preferred choice?

Lhuna is my preferred choice. But I'm considering making this interesting.

[Thinlómien]

Lhuna -> Eönwë
Eönwë -> Boro
QT -> Lhuna
Inzil -> Lommy
Lottie -> Boro 2
Greenie -> Zil
The Ka -> Lhuna 2
Pitchwife -> Eönwë 2
Lalaith -> Lhuna 3
Lommy -> Lhuna 4
Rune -> Eönwë 3
Kath -> Lhuna 5
Shasta -> Lhuna 6

Well this sure as angband isn't what I'd guessed the vote tally to build up to 2h ago

Really rather flummoxed but hopeful about toDay's outcome.

Crossing toes.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I don't think a wagon I like more is going to come along at this late stage.

++Lhuna

Voting late enough again not to make a difference? Seeeeriously, Shasta.

[Boromir88]

I think I'm the last to vote? Kind of anti-climatic

++Eonwe

[Brinniel]

++Lhuna

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by thinlómien

voting late enough again not to make a difference? Seeeeriously, shasta.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯