Riddles in the Downs

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Makes me think of Mirror of Galadriel.

Correct!

Care to explain?

[Urwen]

Well, in the words of the owner, it lets you see things that were, things that are, and some things that may yet come to pass. The future it shows may never come to pass unless the future is prevented by the viewer in the first place.

[Urwen]

Well, since Galadriel55 isn't here and already said I am correct, I might as well continue




Come to me, the eldest one
Come to my land
Come to my domain
Where you and your kin dared to tread


Come to me, the third one
Bearer of your grandfather's name
You and your kin sought the treasure
Which was your father's claim to fame


You were captured
Trapped on the mountain high
And while you were saved
It came at a price

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Well, in the words of the owner, it lets you see things that were, things that are, and some things that may yet come to pass. The future it shows may never come to pass unless the future is prevented by the viewer in the first place.

Indeed, it lets you do all that, on the condition that you don't touch the water.

Your riddle makes me think about Dwarves for some reason.

[Urwen]

Nope, not a dwarf, mwahahaha!

[Galadriel55]

Well the other thing with a ring is Maedhros. He's the eldest of Feanor's sons, who sought the Silmarils which are Feanor's famous creation. He was captured and trapped on a mountain and lost a hand in his escape. But I don't get the Grandfather thing. And the first stanza sounds like it's the earth itself speaking, Beleriand or ME perhaps - calling Maedhros into the cracks to his death, on the land to which the Noldor dared come in defiance of the Valar.

[Huinesoron]

Agree with Maedhros; his Father-name was Nelyafinwe, 'Third Finwe', because the House of Finwe has seriously messed-up naming patterns (Finwe originally named each of his sons simply 'Finwe', and then added adjectives to them when he thought of them - so Finwe Feanaro became Curufinwe, 'skilled Finwe', who himself continued the pattern by naming every single one of his sons 'something-Finwe'. Curufin is literally named after him. I am genuinely shocked to find that Celebrimbor is his son's Father-name - I assumed Curufin would have stuck to the pattern.).

If the speaker isn't Middle-earth itself, it could be Morgoth, probably about the time of the Nirnaeth, since it post-dates Maedhros' capture and release, and that's the next time he tries to attack Angband. Failing that, Thingol claimed Beleriand as his land, and knew Finwe, so would be expected to describe Maedhros with reference to him. In that case it would be less an invitation, more a prophecy - for, after Thingol's death, Maedhros did enter his lands... for the Second Kinslaying.

hS

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Well the other thing with a ring is Maedhros. He's the eldest of Feanor's sons, who sought the Silmarils which are Feanor's famous creation. He was captured and trapped on a mountain and lost a hand in his escape. But I don't get the Grandfather thing. And the first stanza sounds like it's the earth itself speaking, Beleriand or ME perhaps - calling Maedhros into the cracks to his death, on the land to which the Noldor dared come in defiance of the Valar.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Agree with Maedhros; his Father-name was Nelyafinwe, 'Third Finwe', because the House of Finwe has seriously messed-up naming patterns (Finwe originally named each of his sons simply 'Finwe', and then added adjectives to them when he thought of them - so Finwe Feanaro became Curufinwe, 'skilled Finwe', who himself continued the pattern by naming every single one of his sons 'something-Finwe'. Curufin is literally named after him. I am genuinely shocked to find that Celebrimbor is his son's Father-name - I assumed Curufin would have stuck to the pattern.).

If the speaker isn't Middle-earth itself, it could be Morgoth, probably about the time of the Nirnaeth, since it post-dates Maedhros' capture and release, and that's the next time he tries to attack Angband. Failing that, Thingol claimed Beleriand as his land, and knew Finwe, so would be expected to describe Maedhros with reference to him. In that case it would be less an invitation, more a prophecy - for, after Thingol's death, Maedhros did enter his lands... for the Second Kinslaying.

hS

I am a bit of First Age afficionado. It's way more interesting than Third Age, or Second Age (even though it gave us Tar-Miriel). Most of my favorites lived in the First Age too.

[Urwen]

Actually, Huinesoron explained the riddle better, so maybe the turn should go to him.

[Galadriel55]

Gotta leave for work, will write something when I return.

Urwen, can you confirm the speaker?

Originally Posted by Urwen

I am a bit of First Age afficionado. It's way more interesting than Third Age, or Second Age (even though it gave us Tar-Miriel). Most of my favorites lived in the First Age too.

First Age has a charm of its own, and I'm a fan. Third Age too. Second Age though is not a favourite. Meh, we all have something that resonates more.

Edit - cross-posted with the last. By all means!

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Gotta leave for work, will write something when I return.

Urwen, can you confirm the speaker?



First Age has a charm of its own, and I'm a fan. Third Age too. Second Age though is not a favourite. Meh, we all have something that resonates more.

Edit - cross-posted with the last. By all means!

Sure. It's Morgoth.


(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeP6rrm1lt0)

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Actually, Huinesoron explained the riddle better, so maybe the turn should go to him.

No, no, it definitely goes to Galadriel55. But to tide you over until she returns from work, I'll offer up a non-riddling riff on the marvel that is William McGonagall's The Tay Bridge Disaster.

Beautiful star-domed Bridge of Osgiliath!
Alas! I am very sorry it hath
Collapsed into Anduin from the Usurper's wrath
In 1437, it was quite a bloodbath
Which will be remember'd in the long aftermath.

As soon as the catastrophe came to be known
The alarm from mouth to mouth was blown,
And the cry rang out all o’er the town,
Good Heavens! Osgiliath Bridge is blown down,
And the great Palantir of Elendil,
Which King Eldacar's heart with sorrow did fill,
Has sunk into the waters white,
Oh! What a terrible and truly awful sight
Has befallen Osgiliath in 1437's bloodbath,
Which will be remember'd in the long aftermath.

It must have been an awful sight,
To witness in the dusky moonlight,
When the Usurper did rage, and angry did laugh
And burned the piers of the Bridge of Osgiliath
Oh! Ill-fated Bridge of Osgiliath grey
I must now conclude my lay
By telling the world fearlessly without the least dismay,
That your central pillars would not have given way,
At least many sensible men do say,
Had they been supported on each side with buttresses,
At least many sensible men confesses,
For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed.

I am so very sorry. ^_^

(I confess to being another First Age fan. I've always felt that Tolkien's heart was more in Beleriand than in the lands that came after. Plus, elves are more interesting than diminutive rural English folk... >: D)

hS

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

No, no, it definitely goes to Galadriel55. But to tide you over until she returns from work, I'll offer up a non-riddling riff on the marvel that is William McGonagall's The Tay Bridge Disaster.



I am so very sorry. ^_^

(I confess to being another First Age fan. I've always felt that Tolkien's heart was more in Beleriand than in the lands that came after. Plus, elves are more interesting than diminutive rural English folk... >: D)

hS

What do you think of this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4D4JwvGn-E


I think this is pretty well-made song

[Urwen]

Still waiting

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

(I confess to being another First Age fan. I've always felt that Tolkien's heart was more in Beleriand than in the lands that came after. Plus, elves are more interesting than diminutive rural English folk... >: D)

hS

The one reason why LOTR is still, just, my favourite is the character of Frodo. I love the elvishness in LOTR - always did - but now I wish there was more of it. But then, my favourite character is a very *elvish* hobbit. I'd also describe myself as a hobbit with a strong dash of elf.

The earlier lands attract me more nowadays than the Third Age ones too ... although I do love the Shire.

I always found Rohan and Gondor a bit of a bore, if I'm honest.

[Urwen]

From the third age, I love Frodo and Eowyn, and that's about it.


Also, still waiting for the new riddle....

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Also, still waiting for the new riddle....

Oi! People get 10 days to write a new question. You don't give me 10 hours!

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Oi! People get 10 days to write a new question. You don't give me 10 hours!

Well, the 10 day rule isn't followed either, considering that people have protested me taking over even after 10 days have passed in the past.

[Galadriel55]

A title to three:
One justly named,
One falsely named,
The last for the first.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Well, the 10 day rule isn't followed either, considering that people have protested me taking over even after 10 days have passed in the past.

So the solution is to shorten the time to less than a single day?

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

So the solution is to shorten the time to less than a single day?

I am merely saying that it should apply for everyone, and that people should quit protesting when I take advantage of it.

[Urwen]

The Golden, a title shared by Glaurung, Smaug and Pharazon?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

So the solution is to shorten the time to less than a single day?

I think we're all just really excited to have two! whole! active! threads! on the Downs.

As for the riddle... Urwen's mention of Ar-Pharazon gets me thinking about Ar-Adunakhor, who took the title 'Lord of the West' in reference to Manwe. But I don't think there's a third instance (or second, if Adunakhor is the third).

I don't believe any of the various kings and stewards hit a 'the Third'.

(I quite like 'the Golden', for the record, but I figured it was worth another guess... )

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I think we're all just really excited to have two! whole! active! threads! on the Downs.

I know! Like I actually have to check the subforum and not simply click on the most recent thread linked on the main page.

I'm afraid neither title is the one I'm looking for. I can see how Lord of the West works for "justly" and "falsely", but the Golden characters don't really match the description. Before you go digging, it's not anything obscure.

[Urwen]

'The Old' then?

[Galadriel55]

Nope.

[Urwen]

The Faithful?

[Galadriel55]

Nope. More obvious than that.

[Urwen]

The Fair?

[Galadriel55]

No. I realize the riddle is somewhat vague, but there are descriptions that match the title holders. Can you match them to the specific individuals with your titles?

[Urwen]

Well, I could have matched holders of 'The Old' title, but you said no to that.


Anyway, my last guess is 'The White', otherwise I'm clueless.

[Huinesoron]

An oddball guess: 'Greenleaf', as the original and Fourth Age names of Mirkwood (the latter being named for the former), and in between, of an elf lad who did not have green leaves.

Also wondering about 'Lorien': the forest in Aman, the Vala, and our Lothlorien. The Vala of Dreams is only named Lorien after his home, so 'falsely' kind of applies.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Still no answer.

I was thinking about what hints can help you without giving it away. It's a title. Say it aloud if it helps.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Still no answer.

I was thinking about what hints can help you without giving it away. It's a title. Say it aloud if it helps.

Oh, you mean, it's not a title of a person, but rather a title of a book?


And the only book which pertains to 'three' is CoH.

[Galadriel55]

Nope.

[Urwen]

Then what are you getting at? An anagram? A homophone?

[Pervinca Took]

The Lord of the Rings ... applied to Sauron, Frodo (wrongly) * and the book, in reference to Sauron?

* By Pippin in Rivendell, after his recovery.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

The Lord of the Rings ... applied to Sauron, Frodo (wrongly) and the book, in reference to Sauron?

Well done! A perfect explanation. Over to you.

[Pervinca Took]

I got it right? Cool!

Unhappy once, I now am blessed.
Whate'er you think, I do not jest!
Since friendship is a gift divine
I dwindle, but I do not pine.