What battle was the most important? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lhunbelethiel · 01-03-2003, 02:48 PM

Considering each age's big battles, which, would you say, is the most important? Which had the most impact on Middle Earth?

Mandos · 01-03-2003, 02:55 PM

This is very debatable, but my personal opinnion is the Great Battle in the Silmarillion. It is where the Valar themselves come and capture Morgoth and destroy his armies. Wihtout this happening,the entire history of Middle Earth would be extremely different since Morgoth would have drastically changed things.

Manwe Sulimo · 01-03-2003, 04:23 PM

Do you mean the battle of the Valar and Melkor, or the War of Wrath? I personally think that it's the former.

01-03-2003, 04:45 PM

I think the Fifth Battle of the War of Beleriand was very important...

Mandos · 01-03-2003, 04:50 PM

in the Silmarillion , in the Voyage or Earendil,it refers to the meeting of the hosts of the West ( the Valar) and the hosts of the North ( Morgoth) as both the Great Battle and the War of Wrath.It is where Thangororim is broken and Morgoth is captured.

Maeglin · 01-03-2003, 05:07 PM

The cleansing of the shire was no doubt the most important of em all. Imagine ME without the Shire!!! [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

Mandos · 01-03-2003, 05:12 PM

yes. but without the War of Wrath, everything would have fallen into darkness and have been lost. this was long before the shire was formed and the outcome of this battle directly influenced the Shire along with every other country.

zacattack · 01-03-2003, 05:40 PM

In my opnion there was The War of Wrath and quite possibly The Battle of Pellenor Feilds because if they didn't happen then quite possibly Middle Earth would have been covered in darkness.

littlemanpoet · 01-03-2003, 06:57 PM

The Battle of the Pelennor Fields was only a side-light of the War of the Ring; so it was with every battle in the War of the Ring, save one: the battle for Frodo's will as he bore the Ring to Orodruin. Had Frodo succumbed to its power at any time before he did, the West would have been lost into millenia of darkness. That's huge. So that's my vote for the 3rd Age.

For the 1st Age, the West versus the North as has been said.

For the 2nd Age, the Battle in which Sauron loses the Ring.

Of all of these, the 1st Age battle probably takes precedence, since its results directly affected the later ones.

Mandos · 01-03-2003, 07:05 PM

I believe that I may change my first view. I belive that the most important battle in the History of Middle Earth is the very first battle ever fought; In Ainulindale, where Melkor battled against the music of the other Ainur to bend it into his own designs. Had not this happened, everything else would have been different. For had not this happened, Melkor would not have turned evil.This single event is the turning point in all the history of Arda and Aman.

Lhunbelethiel · 01-04-2003, 10:43 AM

Thanks for your opinions, folks. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Where do you think the War of the Ring fits in to the scheme? Very important (since it banished Sauron and Saruman) or not so important? And, do the appendices or History of Middle Earth tell of a battle after the end of the Third Age? Or was Pellenor (sp?... sorry) fields the last great battle. (Scouring of the Shire being great as well of course)

Voronwe · 01-04-2003, 02:15 PM

The Dagor Dagorath will be the most important battle.

Galorme · 01-04-2003, 02:53 PM

Ainulindale was outside of Middle Earth you silly dead person.

the witch king · 01-05-2003, 10:01 AM

dont know if it counts as a battle but when the kings men of numenor came to the undieing lands, the whole world was changed.

Russandol · 01-05-2003, 12:00 PM

The Battle of the Powers after the awakening of the Elves? Result: - The capture of Melkor and the summons for the Elves to dwell with the Valar in Valinor and all the problems that arose because of it.

Sindae · 01-07-2003, 03:57 PM

I haven't read the Silmarillion yet (I know I'm to blame...) so I think the most important battle in lotR was the battle on the Pellennor Fields because there the witch-king was slain. Of course there were other important battles in LotR but this one is a very important one.

Galorme · 01-08-2003, 05:10 AM

Taking Middle Earth to be, well, not middle earth [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] you could say the first Kinslaying was important. It resulted in the curse of the gnomes, and therefore the First Age turned out badly and gloriously, a lot of things that wouldn't have happened happened because of that curse (or could be said to). It also resulted in the West being blocked from them, thus they couldn't get help until Earendel's time.

01-03-2003, 02:48 PM	#1
Lhunbelethiel Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Francisco Bay Area (aka Bay of Belfalas) Posts: 103	What battle was the most important? Considering each age's big battles, which, would you say, is the most important? Which had the most impact on Middle Earth? __________________ ~~All that is gold does not glitter, not all who wander are lost, all that is old does not wither, deep roots are not touched by the frost...~~

01-03-2003, 02:55 PM	#2
Mandos Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Panama City, Florida Posts: 131	This is very debatable, but my personal opinnion is the Great Battle in the Silmarillion. It is where the Valar themselves come and capture Morgoth and destroy his armies. Wihtout this happening,the entire history of Middle Earth would be extremely different since Morgoth would have drastically changed things. __________________ He came unto the timeless halls where shining fall the countless years and endless reigns the Elder King in Ilmarin on Mountain sheer

01-03-2003, 04:23 PM	#3
Manwe Sulimo Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Taurelilómëa-tumbalemorna Tumbaletaurëa Lómëanor Posts: 553	Do you mean the battle of the Valar and Melkor, or the War of Wrath? I personally think that it's the former. __________________ "Monkeys learn sign language so they can tell the dolphins they love them."

01-03-2003, 04:50 PM	#5
Mandos Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Panama City, Florida Posts: 131	in the Silmarillion , in the Voyage or Earendil,it refers to the meeting of the hosts of the West ( the Valar) and the hosts of the North ( Morgoth) as both the Great Battle and the War of Wrath.It is where Thangororim is broken and Morgoth is captured. __________________ He came unto the timeless halls where shining fall the countless years and endless reigns the Elder King in Ilmarin on Mountain sheer

01-03-2003, 05:07 PM	#6
Maeglin Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nan Elmoth Posts: 136	The cleansing of the shire was no doubt the most important of em all. Imagine ME without the Shire!!! [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] __________________ The fool speaks of what he knows. The wise knows what he speaks of.

01-03-2003, 04:45 PM	#4
Throrin Guest Posts: n/a	I think the Fifth Battle of the War of Beleriand was very important...

01-03-2003, 05:12 PM	#7
Mandos Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Panama City, Florida Posts: 131	yes. but without the War of Wrath, everything would have fallen into darkness and have been lost. this was long before the shire was formed and the outcome of this battle directly influenced the Shire along with every other country. __________________ He came unto the timeless halls where shining fall the countless years and endless reigns the Elder King in Ilmarin on Mountain sheer

01-03-2003, 05:40 PM	#8
zacattack Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Angband Posts: 70	In my opnion there was The War of Wrath and quite possibly The Battle of Pellenor Feilds because if they didn't happen then quite possibly Middle Earth would have been covered in darkness. __________________ "The dwarf breathes so loud we could have shot him in the dark "What an excellent spot I choose"-Gimli "Would you like me to describe it to you or just fetch for a box"-Legolas

01-03-2003, 06:57 PM	#9
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	The Battle of the Pelennor Fields was only a side-light of the War of the Ring; so it was with every battle in the War of the Ring, save one: the battle for Frodo's will as he bore the Ring to Orodruin. Had Frodo succumbed to its power at any time before he did, the West would have been lost into millenia of darkness. That's huge. So that's my vote for the 3rd Age. For the 1st Age, the West versus the North as has been said. For the 2nd Age, the Battle in which Sauron loses the Ring. Of all of these, the 1st Age battle probably takes precedence, since its results directly affected the later ones.

01-03-2003, 07:05 PM	#10
Mandos Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Panama City, Florida Posts: 131	I believe that I may change my first view. I belive that the most important battle in the History of Middle Earth is the very first battle ever fought; In Ainulindale, where Melkor battled against the music of the other Ainur to bend it into his own designs. Had not this happened, everything else would have been different. For had not this happened, Melkor would not have turned evil.This single event is the turning point in all the history of Arda and Aman. __________________ He came unto the timeless halls where shining fall the countless years and endless reigns the Elder King in Ilmarin on Mountain sheer

01-04-2003, 10:43 AM	#11
Lhunbelethiel Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Francisco Bay Area (aka Bay of Belfalas) Posts: 103	Thanks for your opinions, folks. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Where do you think the War of the Ring fits in to the scheme? Very important (since it banished Sauron and Saruman) or not so important? And, do the appendices or History of Middle Earth tell of a battle after the end of the Third Age? Or was Pellenor (sp?... sorry) fields the last great battle. (Scouring of the Shire being great as well of course) __________________ ~~All that is gold does not glitter, not all who wander are lost, all that is old does not wither, deep roots are not touched by the frost...~~

01-04-2003, 02:15 PM	#12
Voronwe Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Gondolin Posts: 413	The Dagor Dagorath will be the most important battle. __________________ "If you would be a real seeker after truth, you must at least once in your life doubt, as far as possible, all things." -- René Descartes

01-04-2003, 02:53 PM	#13
Galorme Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London Posts: 337	Ainulindale was outside of Middle Earth you silly dead person. __________________ Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! The day has come! Behold people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!

01-05-2003, 10:01 AM	#14
the witch king Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Minas Morgul, Morgul Vale, Mordor Posts: 201	dont know if it counts as a battle but when the kings men of numenor came to the undieing lands, the whole world was changed. __________________ 'Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.'~ Che Guevara.

01-05-2003, 12:00 PM	#15
Russandol Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A sock-drawer in Mandos Posts: 156	The Battle of the Powers after the awakening of the Elves? Result: - The capture of Melkor and the summons for the Elves to dwell with the Valar in Valinor and all the problems that arose because of it.

01-07-2003, 03:57 PM	#16
Sindae Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: a messy room in the world's best city Posts: 95	I haven't read the Silmarillion yet (I know I'm to blame...) so I think the most important battle in lotR was the battle on the Pellennor Fields because there the witch-king was slain. Of course there were other important battles in LotR but this one is a very important one. __________________ My page about Iceland

01-08-2003, 05:10 AM	#17
Galorme Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London Posts: 337	Taking Middle Earth to be, well, not middle earth [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] you could say the first Kinslaying was important. It resulted in the curse of the gnomes, and therefore the First Age turned out badly and gloriously, a lot of things that wouldn't have happened happened because of that curse (or could be said to). It also resulted in the West being blocked from them, thus they couldn't get help until Earendel's time. __________________ Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! The day has come! Behold people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!