Morgoth's Creations - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

WarBringer · 01-14-2003, 07:29 PM

What, in your opinion is Morgoth's greatest creation. I believe it was the dragons, who were both clever and deadly...

Elven-Maiden · 01-14-2003, 10:55 PM

The balrog.

But honestly though, I don't think any of Morgoth's creations could ever be considered great, because he took what Eru created and warped it. Therefore, his "creations" are all actually twisted abominations of Eru's wonders.

elven maiden Earwen · 01-14-2003, 11:09 PM

balrogs and dragons

Inderjit Sanghera · 01-15-2003, 04:21 AM

Morogth didn't create the Balrogs. They are spirits of fire and assume their own forms. Winged dragons are his greatest creation.

[ January 16, 2003: Message edited by: Inderjit Sanghera ]

Jurion · 01-15-2003, 07:17 AM

Morgoth could not create, it was stated somewhere that evil can never create, it can only corrupt other things.

Aragost · 01-15-2003, 09:23 PM

Balrogs were Miar, creations of Iluvatar. The Balrogs rebeled with Melkor and could assume thier own forms.

Melkor did not create them!!

elven maiden Earwen · 01-15-2003, 09:25 PM

all of morgoths creations where mutated things so i dont think he really made something on his own like alue did but twisted real things

WarBringer · 01-17-2003, 05:02 PM

then how do you explain dragons? he had to have created them.

**The Saucepan Man** · 01-17-2003, 08:35 PM

I've just started on the Silmarillion, and it certainly is the case that Morgoth was unable to create anything of his own - just twist beings that were already in existence (elves : orcs, ents : trolls).

Balrogs were Maiar who sided with Morgoth. So, he did not create them.

I've seen it suggested elsewhere ('though I can't find the thread now) that Dragons were formed by Morgoth from Eagles, but I don't hold with that. I suspect that they came into being along with the other beasts of ME.

That being the case, then only orcs and trolls are Morgoth's "creations" (unless anyone can think of any others, maybe Wargs from Wolves), in which case trolls would have to be his greatest "creation", being meaner than orcs.

[ January 17, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]

Inderjit Sanghera · 01-18-2003, 09:21 AM

I suppose Sauron had quite a large part in the creation of some of Morgoth's creatures. Him being a great craftsmen of the house of Aule and all.

01-14-2003, 07:29 PM	#1
WarBringer Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wandering The North Posts: 184	Morgoth's Creations What, in your opinion is Morgoth's greatest creation. I believe it was the dragons, who were both clever and deadly... __________________ Fortune Favors the Bold...

01-14-2003, 10:55 PM	#2
Elven-Maiden Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 297	The balrog. But honestly though, I don't think any of Morgoth's creations could ever be considered great, because he took what Eru created and warped it. Therefore, his "creations" are all actually twisted abominations of Eru's wonders. __________________ Tout ce qui est or ne brille pas, Tous ceux qui errent ne sont pas perdus. Mobilis in Mobile

01-14-2003, 11:09 PM	#3
elven maiden Earwen Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A world that never was and never will be Posts: 1,300	balrogs and dragons __________________ We pillage and plunder, we rifle and loot, Drink up me hearties, Yo Ho. the looniest site in the world!!!

01-15-2003, 04:21 AM	#4
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	Morogth didn't create the Balrogs. They are spirits of fire and assume their own forms. Winged dragons are his greatest creation. [ January 16, 2003: Message edited by: Inderjit Sanghera ] __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

01-15-2003, 09:23 PM	#6
Aragost Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Arthedain Posts: 137	Balrogs were Miar, creations of Iluvatar. The Balrogs rebeled with Melkor and could assume thier own forms. Melkor did not create them!! __________________ Where there's a whip there's a will

01-15-2003, 07:17 AM	#5
Jurion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 85	Morgoth could not create, it was stated somewhere that evil can never create, it can only corrupt other things.

01-15-2003, 09:25 PM	#7
elven maiden Earwen Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A world that never was and never will be Posts: 1,300	all of morgoths creations where mutated things so i dont think he really made something on his own like alue did but twisted real things __________________ We pillage and plunder, we rifle and loot, Drink up me hearties, Yo Ho. the looniest site in the world!!!

01-17-2003, 05:02 PM	#8
WarBringer Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wandering The North Posts: 184	then how do you explain dragons? he had to have created them. __________________ Fortune Favors the Bold...

01-17-2003, 08:35 PM	#9
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	I've just started on the Silmarillion, and it certainly is the case that Morgoth was unable to create anything of his own - just twist beings that were already in existence (elves : orcs, ents : trolls). Balrogs were Maiar who sided with Morgoth. So, he did not create them. I've seen it suggested elsewhere ('though I can't find the thread now) that Dragons were formed by Morgoth from Eagles, but I don't hold with that. I suspect that they came into being along with the other beasts of ME. That being the case, then only orcs and trolls are Morgoth's "creations" (unless anyone can think of any others, maybe Wargs from Wolves), in which case trolls would have to be his greatest "creation", being meaner than orcs. [ January 17, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ] __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

01-18-2003, 09:21 AM	#10
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	I suppose Sauron had quite a large part in the creation of some of Morgoth's creatures. Him being a great craftsmen of the house of Aule and all. __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone