Sting - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Marroc Underhill · 10-04-2003, 02:01 PM

Was Sting meant for a hobbit? Or was it a dagger? or just a short-sword, like the Roman's? I am a huge fan of the LotR swords and this happens tostump me. Any information would help greatly.

Thank you
Marroc

[ October 04, 2003: Message edited by: Marroc Underhill ]

Feanor of the Peredhil · 10-04-2003, 02:26 PM

I can't give exact quotes at the moment, but Sting was made for Elves and by Elves way back in the day. Others can give you more definate answers.

Fea

steve · 10-04-2003, 02:49 PM

I can not give exact quotes on the subject as well, my girlfriend has my books at the moment, but I belive that Sting was forged in Gondolin in the first age

10-04-2003, 03:55 PM

IM pretty sure gandalf said that it was made by the elves. but just as a short sword or dagger. bilbo and frodo could both us e it as long swords though.

10-04-2003, 09:20 PM

made in gondolin in the first age
found by bilbo in the troll hoarde
named sting by bilbo while fighting the spiders of mirkwood
i got the info from the encyclopedia of arda

Gwaihir the Windlord · 10-04-2003, 09:40 PM

Quote:

And Bilbo took a knife in a leather sheath. It would have made only a tiny pocket-knife for a troll, but it was as good as a short sword for a Hobbit.
'These look like good blades,' said the wizard, half drawing them and looking at them curiously. 'They were not made by any troll, nor by any smith among Men in these parts and days; but when we can read the runes on them, we shall know more about them.'
.....
Elrond knew all about runes of every kind. That day he looked at the swords they had brought from the trolls' lair, and he said: 'These are not troll-make. They are old swords, very old swords of the High Elves of the West, my kin. They were made in Gondolin for the goblin-wars. They must have come from a dragons's hoard or goblin plunder, for dragons and goblins destroyed that city many ages ago.'

The Hobbit. Sting was a long dagger, the companion of Glamdring and Orcrist (as was Angrist to Anglachel) and perhaps others of the sort.

[ October 04, 2003: Message edited by: Gwaihir the Windlord ]

manaratowen · 10-04-2003, 09:52 PM

it was made in beleriand in the first age, as the others have already stated. but i think i remember reading that it was made as a short sword or long knife for someone the size of an elf. but in the hands of a hobbit, it would be about the size of a sword for him or her.

Voralphion · 10-06-2003, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Sting was a long dagger, the companion of Glamdring and Orcrist (as was Angrist to Anglachel)

Where does it say that sting was the companion of Glamdring and Orcrist, aside from all being made in Gondolin and being in the same troll hoard, I didn't think they had anything in common.
Also, I don't think Angrist was the companion of Anglachel since they were made by different people, (Angrist by Telchar, Anglachel by Eol) and they were borne by different people, (Angrist by Curufin then Beren, Anglachel by Beleg then Turin)

Gwaihir the Windlord · 10-07-2003, 04:15 AM

Angrist? Well yes, that was a bad example then. Its been quite a while since I read Sil or UT, or anything concerning this knife, and had forgotten that it was not forged by Eol. But to say

Quote:

Where does it say that sting was the companion of Glamdring and Orcrist, aside from all being made in Gondolin and being in the same troll hoard, I didn't think they had anything in common.

is rather bizarre. Anything in common? They were three of an ancient and magical kind; a kind made only by the smiths of Gondolin in its glory, by the same lost art.

[ October 07, 2003: Message edited by: Gwaihir the Windlord ]

Voralphion · 10-07-2003, 06:20 PM

What I meant to say is that they were not made to be companion weapons, they just happened to end up together.

Eladar · 10-07-2003, 06:51 PM

Does anyone know a quote that says all Elven blades of the first age would shine when they were around Orcs?

I've seen it once, but there was no reference given.

Voralphion · 10-07-2003, 07:14 PM

I am pretty sure that the only elven blades that glowed in the presence of orcs were those made in Gondolin. I think this was said in The Hobbit and not mentioned at all in either Lord of the Rings or the Silmarillion. I think that JRRT came up with the idea for the Hobbit and had to continue with it for LOTR despite not using at any other time in his legendarium.

Finwe · 10-07-2003, 08:21 PM

Gwaihir, I think that the blade you meant to talk about was "Anguirel" the mate of Anglachel, and also forged by Eol. That smith wielded it until his execution in Gondolin, when it was taken from him and given to Maeglin. Maeglin then wielded it until his death at the same precipice where his father died.

I don't think it is definitively stated anywhere that all blades forged by the Elves in the First Age would glow in the proximity of Orcs. But it does make sense. I think that the Elves would want some kind of "alarm" so that they could be on their guard. The only drawback to that was that they would lose the element of surprise. It's hard even for an Orc with bad eye-sight to miss a glowing blue blade, which would completely ruin any ambushes.

FingolfintheBold · 10-07-2003, 09:46 PM

Voralphion, glowing blades are mentioned in the Lord of the Rings. Sting, borne by Frodo, glowed near Rauros Falls when the company of Uruk-hai drew near, and i belive there is an instance of Glamdring "shining cold and white" or something along those lines, too.

Does anyone have a quote on the special orc-detecting blades being made only in Gondolin? Your probably right, but i always figured it was more of an elvish trick in general, and not necessarily one devised in Gondolin. The three swords Orcrist, Glamdring and Sting were made in Gondolin for the Wars, but there were probably others as well.

Gwaihir the Windlord · 10-08-2003, 02:15 AM

It would appear that it was an art of the Gondolothrim, that was lost in that city's destruction (although some of the blades themselves obviously survived).

Quote:

Gwaihir, I think that the blade you meant to talk about was "Anguirel" the mate of Anglachel, and also forged by Eol.

Nope, the blade I meant to talk about was actually Angrist, because I had made a mistake. If Angrist was related to Anglachel and Anguiral, it would indeed be comparable to Sting, the relative dagger-version of Orcrist and Glamdring.

But, of course, my mistake.

Secret Fire · 10-08-2003, 05:56 PM

It may very well be that the orc-detecting blades were unique to Gondolin, but glowing blades were not. Narsil, so named because it shone with bright red light (Naur, sunlight) and soft white light (thil, moonlight) captured into its metal. As for the element of surprise, if you would remember, the glowing blades struck such fear into the opponents of the weilders of such weapons (ie the orcs in the Hobbit and even Sauron) that the element of surprise was not needed. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

10-04-2003, 02:01 PM	#1
Marroc Underhill Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: In The Deep Places Of The World Posts: 61	Sting Was Sting meant for a hobbit? Or was it a dagger? or just a short-sword, like the Roman's? I am a huge fan of the LotR swords and this happens tostump me. Any information would help greatly. Thank you Marroc [ October 04, 2003: Message edited by: Marroc Underhill ] __________________ Hail to the Lords of Angmar, for we are the true power!

10-04-2003, 02:26 PM	#2
Feanor of the Peredhil La Belle Dame sans Merci Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: perpetual uncertainty Posts: 5,517	I can't give exact quotes at the moment, but Sting was made for Elves and by Elves way back in the day. Others can give you more definate answers. Fea __________________ peace

10-04-2003, 02:49 PM	#3
steve Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edoras... er, Philadelphia Posts: 191	I can not give exact quotes on the subject as well, my girlfriend has my books at the moment, but I belive that Sting was forged in Gondolin in the first age __________________ MAGIC SHOP! Spells of Mass Destruction 20% off! Today Only!

10-04-2003, 09:52 PM	#7
manaratowen Pile O'Bones Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Wheaton Posts: 23	it was made in beleriand in the first age, as the others have already stated. but i think i remember reading that it was made as a short sword or long knife for someone the size of an elf. but in the hands of a hobbit, it would be about the size of a sword for him or her. __________________ "If we deny love that is given to us, if we refuse to give love because we fear the pain of loss, then our lives will be empty, our loss greater."

10-07-2003, 06:20 PM	#10
Voralphion Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sharkey's End Posts: 267	What I meant to say is that they were not made to be companion weapons, they just happened to end up together. __________________ His sword was long his lance was keen His shining helm afar was seen The countless stars of heavens field Were mirrored in his silver shield

10-04-2003, 03:55 PM	#4
Slayer Guest Posts: n/a	IM pretty sure gandalf said that it was made by the elves. but just as a short sword or dagger. bilbo and frodo could both us e it as long swords though.

10-04-2003, 09:20 PM	#5
Bashbrug the Thug Guest Posts: n/a	made in gondolin in the first age found by bilbo in the troll hoarde named sting by bilbo while fighting the spiders of mirkwood i got the info from the encyclopedia of arda

10-07-2003, 06:51 PM	#11
Eladar Animated Skeleton Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 36	Does anyone know a quote that says all Elven blades of the first age would shine when they were around Orcs? I've seen it once, but there was no reference given.

10-07-2003, 07:14 PM	#12
Voralphion Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sharkey's End Posts: 267	I am pretty sure that the only elven blades that glowed in the presence of orcs were those made in Gondolin. I think this was said in The Hobbit and not mentioned at all in either Lord of the Rings or the Silmarillion. I think that JRRT came up with the idea for the Hobbit and had to continue with it for LOTR despite not using at any other time in his legendarium. __________________ His sword was long his lance was keen His shining helm afar was seen The countless stars of heavens field Were mirrored in his silver shield

10-07-2003, 08:21 PM	#13
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	Gwaihir, I think that the blade you meant to talk about was "Anguirel" the mate of Anglachel, and also forged by Eol. That smith wielded it until his execution in Gondolin, when it was taken from him and given to Maeglin. Maeglin then wielded it until his death at the same precipice where his father died. I don't think it is definitively stated anywhere that all blades forged by the Elves in the First Age would glow in the proximity of Orcs. But it does make sense. I think that the Elves would want some kind of "alarm" so that they could be on their guard. The only drawback to that was that they would lose the element of surprise. It's hard even for an Orc with bad eye-sight to miss a glowing blue blade, which would completely ruin any ambushes. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

10-07-2003, 09:46 PM	#14
FingolfintheBold Haunting Spirit Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Somewhere between knowing my path and walking it Posts: 69	Voralphion, glowing blades are mentioned in the Lord of the Rings. Sting, borne by Frodo, glowed near Rauros Falls when the company of Uruk-hai drew near, and i belive there is an instance of Glamdring "shining cold and white" or something along those lines, too. Does anyone have a quote on the special orc-detecting blades being made only in Gondolin? Your probably right, but i always figured it was more of an elvish trick in general, and not necessarily one devised in Gondolin. The three swords Orcrist, Glamdring and Sting were made in Gondolin for the Wars, but there were probably others as well. __________________ There long the golden leaves have grown, upon the branching years, while here beyond the sundering seas, now fall the Elven-tears... but if of ships I now would sing, what ship would come to me, what ship would bear me ever back, across so wide a sea?

10-08-2003, 05:56 PM	#16
Secret Fire Animated Skeleton Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Oregon State University Posts: 47	It may very well be that the orc-detecting blades were unique to Gondolin, but glowing blades were not. Narsil, so named because it shone with bright red light (Naur, sunlight) and soft white light (thil, moonlight) captured into its metal. As for the element of surprise, if you would remember, the glowing blades struck such fear into the opponents of the weilders of such weapons (ie the orcs in the Hobbit and even Sauron) that the element of surprise was not needed. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Say my name and I'm gone, who am I?