Tolkien on the Kindle

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

That is, um, interesting... I have books that used to be my grandmothers, and they are still intact.... Why such a disrespect for books?

For myself, I have no disrespect for books, but a lot for the publishing industry. It isn't what it used to be, nor are most books. I myself own books that are quite old — the oldest is about 150 years old, and it's in better shape than a lot that are much newer. The materials and processes used to make books aren't what they once were; glues, paper, inks, everything has changed, and changed again. The high acid papers that were popular for many years have been replaced, by some publishers, but the inks that are more environmentally friendly also fade and rub away very quickly. The binding are cheap, as are the glues that hold them, and spines crack and pages fall out, sometimes before I've finished the first read of the book (and I'm not that hard on them).

The sloppiness of the publishing industry has slopped into ebooks. The only reason that so many ebooks are rife with "typos" are because the publishers didn't bother with having a human being proof them and clean up the code after conversion to the ebook's format. I know, because I've now made a few ebooks of my own, and am familiar with the programs and processes and what happens when one format is converted to another. Yes, it's easy to take a PDF file, send it through a conversion program, and voila! have an ebook, but the conversion process makes a horrible mess of things far too often. A person with a proper editing program needs to go through it and correct these things (many of which could be cleaned up simply by starting with an RTF file rather than a PDF). It's sad when I, who am asking nothing for my little twiddles of ebooks, take greater care with them than the publishers who are asking real money for them. It's not that hard to make a good clean ebook, but they obviously don't want to cut into profits by hiring someone to do a one-time proof and clean-up. Grr.

And I find it funny that here I am, one of the oldest people hereabouts, and yet one who has happily embraced technology, as it helps make up for many of my physical shortcomings, which grow greater with each passing year (and don't get me started on my recent six month bout with statin drug damage to my body, from which I am still slowly recovering. We're talking serious non-stop pain and near-crippling weakness for six freaking months!)

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

And I find it funny that here I am, one of the oldest people hereabouts, and yet one who has happily embraced technology...

*giggles*

What's even funnier is that I, being one of the youngest (or the youngest?) member, barely know of the latest inventions and innovations!

I totally agree about what you said about the materials. However, people can still respect books a bit more. I have an old book that I found lying in this place where people drop off books that they don't need anymore. I read and liked very much. It was very old and tattered when I picked it up, and it survived many a story with me. I can't count how many pages fell out! But it is still intact (with the hale of tape) and legible. I can see the majority of my classmates simply throwing that old fossil into the recycling bin.

Note, that I don't mean anybody specifically when I say "people", and especially not any of us Tolkien fans (who could be such and not respect books?!). This is just the general trend of attitude that I noticed amongst people of aproximately my age, give or take 5 or so years.

Originally Posted by Brooke

the books did get more respect then me. The fact that I was shorter then them, didn't help earn me any respect....

I'm sorry about that. As much as I respect books, I respect people more. Especially peole like you!

[LadyBrooke]

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

For myself, I have no disrespect for books, but a lot for the publishing industry. It isn't what it used to be, nor are most books. I myself own books that are quite old — the oldest is about 150 years old, and it's in better shape than a lot that are much newer. The materials and processes used to make books aren't what they once were; glues, paper, inks, everything has changed, and changed again. The high acid papers that were popular for many years have been replaced, by some publishers, but the inks that are more environmentally friendly also fade and rub away very quickly. The binding are cheap, as are the glues that hold them, and spines crack and pages fall out, sometimes before I've finished the first read of the book (and I'm not that hard on them).

Exactly...I have some old books too, and even paperbacks from long ago hold up much better. I have a set of Little House paperbacks from the 40s, and they are in far better conditions then some books I bought last year, and only read once...

I know, because I've now made a few ebooks of my own, and am familiar with the programs and processes and what happens when one format is converted to another. Yes, it's easy to take a PDF file, send it through a conversion program, and voila! have an ebook, but the conversion process makes a horrible mess of things far too often. A person with a proper editing program needs to go through it and correct these things (many of which could be cleaned up simply by starting with an RTF file rather than a PDF). It's sad when I, who am asking nothing for my little twiddles of ebooks, take greater care with them than the publishers who are asking real money for them. It's not that hard to make a good clean ebook, but they obviously don't want to cut into profits by hiring someone to do a one-time proof and clean-up. Grr.

If you don't mind me asking, which type of ebooks have you made? I'm curious about the process, and have considered trying to make one of some of my out of copyright books...

And I find it funny that here I am, one of the oldest people hereabouts, and yet one who has happily embraced technology, as it helps make up for many of my physical shortcomings, which grow greater with each passing year (and don't get me started on my recent six month bout with statin drug damage to my body, from which I am still slowly recovering. We're talking serious non-stop pain and near-crippling weakness for six freaking months!)

Oh my! I hope you get much better. While I'm not bad off as you, I completely understand the technology to make up for physical shortcomings - I myself, due to my insurance companies refusal to allow me to have the epipen style Lantus shots, have bruises every so often, on my stomach or upper thigh that go into my muscle tissue or fat, that going out and actually doing things difficult. My sincerest hopes that you're feeling better now.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I'm sorry about that. As much as I respect books, I respect people more. Especially peole like you!

Thank you! I am one of those people that look much younger then their real age - I'm 18, and often hear "but you look 13", so I get little respect from the actual 13 year olds...especially when I was tossing them out of the library for acting like idiots, and breaking the rules....

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

Physical books wear out after 30-35 lendings? Sheesh, what are people doing to their library books?

"Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew" [/minimal exaggeration]. From my own experience: break the backs, rip out illustrations, cover the pages with text markers in four different colours, spill everything from tea and coffee to orange juice to wine to soy sauce or ketchup over them... and occasionally admit rather sheepishly that the dog has massacred them (those are the ones I can sympathize with). And I'm talking about students at a university here, not little kids. The boy Brooke has told us about seems to have treated his borrowed books with more respect than many of our academic elite.

[Mister Underhill]

I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Sometimes it's easy to assume a general reverence for books when the opposite is more the general case. I guess it can depend on the sort of books one favors, too. My local library has several volumes of Kipling old enough to bear the Hindu swastika. Every once in a while when I'm hankering for some ol' Rud, I'll take one out. They're real beauties. But then they probably mostly sit there on the shelf gathering dust in between the odd occasions when I check them out. One upside of e-readers, at least, is that they lower my chances of having to witness some vulgarian bend the spine back on a book so they can read it one-handed.

Anyway, since I'm here, I might as well update on my experience. I have grown to love my Kindle. I love being able to carry a bookshelf around in a cargo pocket, but who wouldn't? That's only the most obvious benefit. There are lots of interesting digital freebies out there, and I've gotten interested in the whole Creative Commons movement, as well as the indie-publishing movement. There's a whole new -- and expanding -- strata of stuff out there that's sometimes only available digitally. Project Gutenberg and Munsey's are inexhaustible wells of yumminess.

Sometimes you'll stumble across promotional freebies too, as I did recently with a recent download of the audio version of the, ah, shall we say, off-color Go the F*** to Sleep, read by Sam Jackson, a "children's book for grown-ups" meant to put a smile on the faces of frustrated and overtired parents. Fortunately I'm past that stage myself, but I'll be picking up a hard copy for some friends whose new boss is due soon.

Perhaps most unexpected of all -- as Ibrin mentioned above, it's fairly easy to put your own content into an e-reader-friendly format.

A note about concerns over Amazon's control over the digital content they sell you -- when there was a recent update to LotR, they didn't just push it to my device. They sent me an email and gave me the option to update to the new file or not. So, for now at least, the policy seems to be evolving towards a more respectful stance towards the user. And despite a sloppy start in many cases (LotR not the least), the obvious inevitability here is towards digital editions which are perfect reproductions of print editions.

Having Tolkien handily available anywhere at any time (and searchable!) is a great luxury. Sure, I'd love to always be able to sit down in my favorite comfy chair in my quiet man-cave with a treasured edition and a snifter of brandy near to hand, but in these busy days I can't really afford to fetishize the reading experience. The simple fact is that I'm doing a lot more reading since I got my Kindle.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by LadyBrooke

If you don't mind me asking, which type of ebooks have you made? I'm curious about the process, and have considered trying to make one of some of my out of copyright books...

I have made both ePub and mobi formats, which are able to read by a huge number of ebook reading devices. The two programs you need to do it are Calibre and Sigil, both of which are freeware. Calibre will do the conversions from things like PDFs and RTF files into many different ebook formats, and will allow you to edit the metadata (title, author, sorting method, cover, etc.). Sigil is an editor that will let you take what Calibre puts out and clean it up. It does take time, and the more familiar you are with HTML code, the easier it will be, but you can wind up with a more polished product than the publishing houses crank out. You can also use Sigil and Calibre to clean up sloppy ebooks that aren't locked with DRM.

And thank you for your kind wishes about my recovery. I certainly can feel for you when it comes to insurance saying no to so many things. I pay through the nose for my Epipen because they want me to use an ordinary hypo, but danged if I'm going to be struggling with that when I'm going into anaphylactic shock!

[Inziladun]

I can't speak about the Kindle. However, my wife bought a Nook yesterday and I've found it most difficult to set up and generally figure out. And here I'd always thought reading was a stress reliever.
No thanks, I'll stick with physical books that make sense.

[davem]

I gave up on the Kindle altogether & went back to real books. I won't rehearse the old stuff about you can't lend ebooks on, or give them away, they're full of typos, too expensive, etc, but that was part of the reason. Mainly though, I just didn't get on with the thing - it felt like 'pretend' reading, & 'unnatural' (maybe just 'cos having spent most of my half century reading in a certain position (laying down ), & being used to the different weights on my chest,different font/text sizes, cover pics, etc I couldn't stand the uniformity the Kindle imposes on every book. Having just gotten into George RR Martin & purchased the US trade paperbacks I can't imagine why anyone would want to read the stories on a plastic screen. That goes double for my old Tolkien editions.

I've handed over my Kindle to Lalwende (the missus) - & she has A Song of Ice & Fire on there, but still tends to pick up the 'real' thing when she wants to read the books. I daresay that ebooks will win out in the end but, honestly, count me out.

[Mithalwen]

I am just about to get a Kindle (I am facing the prospect of moving to a smaller house and am having to part with a heart breaking amount of books as I clear out the ancestral smial with the book collections of three generations) so it really appeals- though I can't see me giving up on proper books entirely but it wills save me buying new paperback Tolkeins every couple of years because I have worn them out. And I can have them with me at all times.

Anyway I have noticed that the first two volumes of HoME are out.

[FlimFlamSam]

Mister Underhill spoke: [Any comments on them, or comments in general about reading Tolkien electronically?]
I can't speak for Kindle products, but I can for E-Tolkien-text which is what this post mainly concerns itself with.

I prefer a simple .doc format, that can be read at home or on a laptop.
It also has the advantage of being correcteble, especially if you pick up something like Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion or History of the Hobbit as reference along with say Peoples of Middle-earth for the cut Appendices.

Depending on what edition was used to make the original Kindle document, it may have used an older version of text that has mistakes and missing text, not to mention any new problems in the e-book creation process. That doesn't sound like an advantage.

davem spoke: [However, a couple of negatives...]
I've heard about the only "renting it, subject to recall, buyer beware" clause. That's not so good--when considering books.

I've also heard about the replacement texts on books as well. As for Amazon invasion of privacy to see what other books you might like to buy, that's already an established practice of theirs just looking around their site so not unexpected.

Mister Underhill spoke: [The e-ink display is not far off from reading a printed page -- much easier on the eyes and just more book-like than a backlit computer screen.]
You can also solve that with the .doc format. Some people prefer html.
Simply format the .doc for landscape and two columns. It looks just like you're reading a physical book and tricks the mind a bit. You can also add whatever images you like and even insert background colors or images if you want something more than plain white as page color.

Mister Underhill spoke: [If, as I do, you view the device merely as a convenient adjunct to reading, it's pretty nifty.]
Then I would say it does the job then despite whatever complaints are considered.

As for me, I'll pass on Kindle. Just not interested in it.

[Galadriel]

[QUOTE=Galadriel55;657189]

Why such a disrespect for books? Judging from your post many kids don't care about books, but I know many who would make a scandal because there's a scratch on their iPod.

I know what you mean. My mom found a 19th century edition of Walter Scott's poetry (hard-bound, with REAL gold on the cover!) at a flea market that cost less than what you would usually pay for a milkshake. Not that I'm complaining - it's just that I find it almost funny how so many people do not value books.

I still hold my firm stance against reading books that are not really books. That is odd; well, I'm an odd sort of person. I generally dislike technology. I don't have (and don't want) any iPods, Macs, Blackberries, iPhones, or whatever else is popular now. All I have is the cheapest cellphone I could find, and a computer that I could call my own because my parents forced me to keep it.

Mostly agreed. I understand that for people with a low budget, e-readers can be a life-saver, but for me, any book that is worth reading is worth buying, especially since we probably won't have too many real books some thirty years down the line because of deforestation (and also technology). I can live in a small apartment in a lousy city – but I can't live in a big house that doesn't have any books in it.

And yeah, for the longest time I kept a dinosaur of a cell phone. It was only when it wheezed its last wheeze that I bought a new one

Am I an old-fashioned kid? Probably. That's the only reason I could come up with for my animosity towards electronic books.

No, I don't think so. You just like having the real thing in your hand - sort of the way I prefer letters to emails

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Galadriel

I know what you mean. My mom found a 19th century edition of Walter Scott's poetry (hard-bound, with REAL gold on the cover!) at a flea market that cost less than what you would usually pay for a milkshake.

That is INSANE!

Originally Posted by Galardiel

Mostly agreed. I understand that for people with a low budget, e-readers can be a life-saver, but for me, any book that is worth reading is worth buying, especially since we probably won't have too many real books some thirty years down the line because of deforestation (and also technology). I can live in a small apartment in a lousy city – but I can't live in a big house that doesn't have any books in it.

Or, I can live close to the library. I have the books that I really really lie and reread every coupe years, but some books - even some Tolkien - I borrowed from the library.


I have a friens who has an ebook, and I tried using it, and I knew that it just wasn't my thing. So, no ebooks for me for the near future.

[Galadriel]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

That is INSANE!

Tell me about it. I wish I had that sort of luck. Only my mum seems to get it.

Or, I can live close to the library. I have the books that I really really lie and reread every coupe years, but some books - even some Tolkien - I borrowed from the library.

I love libraries, but sadly where I live there's no such thing You either buy a book or leave it. The only library I've been in is my school library, which is small-ish (two large rooms), but nice all the same In fact, we're lucky our school even HAS a library, because most schools here don't.

I have a friens who has an ebook, and I tried using it, and I knew that it just wasn't my thing. So, no ebooks for me for the near future.

I know what you mean. One of my dad's family friends came over one day and tried to persuade me to buy an e-book, but I just felt horrible even thinking about it

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by LadyBrooke

2.) The books I really wish were on the Kindle (H.O.M.E) aren't. Out of all the books, these are the ones that I could see myself using the highlighting and search features the most in because I hate going through the entirety of say Wars of the Jewels to find one small sentence about a feature of Elven life. Plus the publishers could (and hopefully would) be able to sell these books for less then the $19 dollars some of them go for now.

They will all be issued by the end of October - I ordered my kindle today and looked... might not get them all instantly as I have them all in paperback but I probably will in time.... ideally I think I will end up with a set of Tolkien hardbacks for home and Kindle versions for having on hand at all times!!! I do love and respect books but my some books are as essential as toothbrushes and used so constantly that they last about as long!!! My third paperback Lotr is beginning to disintegrate...

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I do love and respect books but my some books are as essential as toothbrushes and used so constantly that they last about as long!!! My third paperback Lotr is beginning to disintegrate...

Oh come on. Dog-eared books are endearing. That's what Scotch tape is for.

My wife is absolutely enthralled with her Nook, but I still don't think an e-reader is for me.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Oh come on. Dog-eared books are endearing. That's what Scotch tape is for.

My wife is absolutely enthralled with her Nook, but I still don't think an e-reader is for me.

Hm well I don't have shelf space for the books I already own so I am hoping it will be a great boon.. let alone when I start travelling again...

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Oh come on. Dog-eared books are endearing. That's what Scotch tape is for.

A certain book of mine required so much tape that once fixed it became like 20% thicker than it was before it was torn. Maybe, in that case, a kindle will be easier...

[Galadriel]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Oh come on. Dog-eared books are endearing. That's what Scotch tape is for.

No. Scotch tape is evil. I've had some really bad experiences with it

[Mithalwen]

Well it arrived about an hour or so ago and I have read one essay and am now reading Roverandom (for the first time ...).. I do ever so slightly feel as if I have joined a cult though...

[Gwathagor]

I feel like civilization has probably had this conversation several times. Like when we switched over from the oral tradition to the scroll or the clay tablet, and later on to the leather codex. And think of the backlash there must have been against the printing press - mass-produced books for everybody? But books are supposed to be works of art!

There is no wrong or right textual medium. Each one is different and each one involves its own particular advantages and disadvantages. Books are a more geographical, tactile, kinesthetic experience. You learn in a different way than when you read an etext, because you can feel the book and each piece of information gets tied to a specific location. The etext is more abstract, but it's also more fluid. It allows for greater connectivity with other texts and information, via not only your particular device, but through the internet.

It will change the way we read and, even more, the way we think. But books won't ever completely die out because they have substance and texture and smell, which is something the internet will never be able to replicate. People need that physical connection to the world.

[Mithalwen]

Very true .. I suppose it is a bit of a switch for me because I haven't adopted other comparable devices - I don't own an MP3 player or digital camera (other than the ones on my cell phone which I cannot get to work). Obviously I use a computer but I find when I write longhand I use a fountain pen and nice paper. I don't see me giving up on reall books - I have too many nice ones but I will be able to declutter a bit! I think the real joy will be the obscure stuff I now have access to.

I still find my hand automatically going to the top corner at the end of the page!

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

It will change the way we read and, even more, the way we think. But books won't ever completely die out because they have substance and texture and smell, which is something the internet will never be able to replicate. People need that physical connection to the world.

Well, until the Kindle lets me pencil in comments and underlinings and stick sticky tabs with ideas on pages, I think I'll keep my old style paperbacks. (Not that I do this with hardcovers.)

[Mithalwen]

Well it apparently does if you can forgo the pencil.. but I remember being severly punished for writing on books as a child so even when a tutor recommended doing so I couldn't.... I might lightly pencil a score but not a book on the whole.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Well, until the Kindle lets me pencil in comments and underlinings and stick sticky tabs with ideas on pages, I think I'll keep my old style paperbacks. (Not that I do this with hardcovers.)

Exactly!

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Very true .. I suppose it is a bit of a switch for me because I haven't adopted other comparable devices - I don't own an MP3 player or digital camera (other than the ones on my cell phone which I cannot get to work). Obviously I use a computer but I find when I write longhand I use a fountain pen and nice paper. I don't see me giving up on reall books - I have too many nice ones but I will be able to declutter a bit! I think the real joy will be the obscure stuff I now have access to.

I still find my hand automatically going to the top corner at the end of the page!

I expect we will actually start to see MORE people using fountain pens and so on in a reaction to the increasingly digital world. Or if not in reaction to it, then in a mindset of "If I'm going to do this analog thing, I'm going to go all the way and do it RIGHT." I never write with anything but my Namiki Vanishing Point fountain pen these days. It's just a more enjoyable experience.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I never write with anything but my Namiki Vanishing Point fountain pen these days. It's just a more enjoyable experience.

But how do you deal with the ink on your computer screen?

[Gwathagor]

Contact paper.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I never write with anything but my Namiki Vanishing Point fountain pen these days. It's just a more enjoyable experience.

It is also because my nice Cross pen makes my scratchy handwriting vaguely legible in a baby shelob has danced across the page kind of way....

[Mister Underhill]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I feel like civilization has probably had this conversation several times.

Yes, agreed. Like it or not, this is the way things are heading. The good news is that for most of us, there will be more physical books around for the rest of our lives than we can ever hope to read. On the other hand, if you are a fan of contemporary authors, you may find that soon(ish), electronic editions are the only, or at least by far the most convenient, way to read some of the writers that you love.

I have more to say, but right now I'm eager to get back to Stephen King's latest novella, Mile 81, which, for now at least, is only available electronically.

[Mithalwen]

I heard a feature on the radio yesterday though that was saying how now the print on demand technology has improved and all books exist digitally books you should always be able to get a hard copy. Apparently Blackwell's in Oxford has a machine which will deliver the book of your choice in under five minutes. On the whole I think more things are going to be more available. But since I shall be spending most of tomorrow morning sitting on the beach, quite possibly in the rain (there is a reason for this I am not merely mascochistically English) I shank risk the new toy and take a "realbook"

[davem]

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

On the other hand, if you are a fan of contemporary authors, you may find that soon(ish), electronic editions are the only, or at least by far the most convenient, way to read some of the writers that you love.

Hmm.... to quote JRRT in OFS -

Long ago Chesterton
truly remarked that, as soon as he heard that anything “had come to stay,” he knew that it would be very soon replaced—indeed regarded as pitiably obsolete and shabby

.

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I heard a feature on the radio yesterday though that was saying how now the print on demand technology has improved and all books exist digitally books you should always be able to get a hard copy.

The downside of print on demand is no more remaindered bookshops - wherein I have found many wonderful books.

As someone who is in the middle of using Sigil & Calibre to format a friend's ebook for publication on Kindle (& hoping it will all work as it should ) I do like the 'democratic' aspect of ebooks - no trying to find a publisher, getting a decent deal for the author, & waiting months for the thing to be available (& then trying to get the thing onto the shelves, etc).

[Mithalwen]

I got my Carpenter biography remaindered but having had to wait 20 years to get a copy of The road goes ever on and ten ot complete my set of HoME knowing things will be always available at the touch of a button is wonderful. My main caveat about e books (apart from the tactile one) is that it is fine for the things you know you want but I am not sure I will make hte happy discoveries of things I didn't know I wanted to read until I saw them. Anyway early days..the first thing I goe was an interesting article on Tolkien that I never would have had the chance to read otherwise...

[Mister Underhill]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I heard a feature on the radio yesterday though that was saying how now the print on demand technology has improved and all books exist digitally books you should always be able to get a hard copy.

Yes, print-on-demand was what I had in mind when I added the "by far the most convenient" caveat. It'll be interesting to see how the technology develops there. All too often POD books are characterized by low production values, and are more expensive and less easy to acquire than an ebook.

Originally Posted by JRR Tolkien

Long ago Chesterton truly remarked that, as soon as he heard that anything “had come to stay,” he knew that it would be very soon replaced—indeed regarded as pitiably obsolete and shabby .

Heh -- you mean like paper books? Brick-and-mortar bookstores? Vinyl, cassettes, CDs? Anyway, I didn't say that ebooks were here to stay, only that they appear to be the next thing. No doubt the written word itself will someday become obsolete after we all upload and transcend biology (). In the meantime, mass market paperbacks are already on their way out.

I take no delight at all in watching the paper book become an endangered animal. On the contrary, my house is partially furnished with them, and I've lugged many hundreds of pounds worth around with me wherever I go ever since I moved out of my parents' house to attend college lo these many years ago. I still buy paper books. I still hunger for some of the beautiful rare editions that I can't quite justify financially.

But the writing is on the wall, and I prefer to embrace the upsides of ebooks (democratization of content, more money per sale into the pocket of the author in many cases, convenience, searchable, etc.).

Bêthberry, my dear -- you already can highlight and annotate electronic editions. Although, as with others here, I never scribble in my books and I've never felt compelled to try out the feature on the Kindle.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

Bêthberry, my dear -- you already can highlight and annotate electronic editions. Although, as with others here, I never scribble in my books and I've never felt compelled to try out the feature on the Kindle.

I have very good company for my pecadillos, Mister U, as Coleridge not only marked up Lamb's early folio of Shakespeare with his comments about the Bard but had the unspeakably bad manners to spill jam on it. So apparently the folio has now doubled in value. (not *cough* that any of my scribblings will be that memorable.)

I can certainly see the value of travelling with a Kindle, as one would have a variety of books at one's disposal all for one weight. And they will of course save trees. I'm just not at the stage yet of curling up with a good Kindle.

[Mister Underhill]

I don't judge. I've spilled many a condiment, not to mention various beverages, crumbs, and smears of dessert, amongst the timeless words of literature's greatest lights, so far be it from me.

Still, if you're the scribbling, highlighting type, I think there is the option to connect your marginalia socially. This may end up being the thing that puts the stake through the heart of the paperback. Not every author spawns fora dedicated to his or her work like our dear professor; the ability to connect socially with other aficionados is something that a paper book can't provide.

[Bêthberry]

That's an interesting possibility, the connection with social media. However, my marginalia is meant just for me, something I use if I want to develope my ideas further, for others.

I saw an advert in a magazine today, on the future of magazines in a digital world. the punch line was:

"Instant coffee hasn't eliminated true brew coffee."

[Mister Underhill]

I will continue to buy paper books for as long as they continue to print them. I couldn't resist picking up a nice 40th anniversary copy of Dune yesterday. There's one I haven't read since junior high.

And as you know I'm not personally big on the social media, but supposedly facebook.com accounts for one out of every four page views in the U.S. these days. We're collectively quite fascinated with what we're all up to, apparently. Besides connecting with other readers, I also just saw this -- you can ask questions of some authors directly from your Kindle. Now, this rogues gallery of beta authors isn't exactly the Algonquin Round Table, but you can see where this is trending. Readers connecting with other readers and with authors while they're in the act of reading.

I don't know. I have a bit of split personality on these things -- the Tolkien in me longs for simpler times. The Star Trek fan in me is jazzed to have tricorder tech available (still waiting impatiently for a breakthrough on the transporter, though). Part of me is glad just to see that enough people are still interested in reading at all to make e-readers a viable product.

[Alfirin]

One other advantage of the e-book is that it should allow for far more rapid updating and correction of material. Any errors of text that slip by before release can be quickly corrected, and those correction can automatically be sent to anyone who bought the book, rather than having to buy another copy. Or if the author decides the book for some reason needs another chapter or a addional essay in the appendix, it can go to everyone, rather than those who have the money to buy the book a second time (it will also end having to continually buy addional editions of the same book (unless you want to) just becuse it has one more three page foreward added. This, I feel, will be particularly important in the case of reference material and scientific literature. As it stands now, a lot of, scientific material (in particualr I'm thinking of things like identification and field guides) tend to suffer from a triple whammy. They tend (if comprehensive) to be far too large and unwieldy to actually be taken into the field, the very limited market tends to result in them being absurdly expensive, and the continual accumulation of new knowledge means that they tend to go obsolete very. very quickly (often, from a funtional point of view, almost before they can be published).
That being said, these very advantages could in my opinion, create their own sort of problems. The ease with which errors can be corrected may result in less care being taken not to make errors in the first place. The ability to update all of the copies of a book simutaneously may result in the loss of a trail of a books evolution (imagine, for example, if the changes JRRT made to the hobbit automatically erased all previos versions of those sections, so the "corrected" text was the only one we ever saw.) As someone who also has a fondness for the Illustrated book, I also worry that the proliferation of the e-book, which can be transmitted easily, may result in a "lock" between a books text and illustrations that is far tighter than we are used to. Part of the reason we have so many different wonderfult artistic concepts of many books (especially when considered in a world wide aspect) is the variable skills of printing all over the world and the fact that, as it stands now the text of a book and the illustrations of a book are often under seperate copyright. If sending a book to another country becomes simply a matter of running it through a good translator program, I can easily see a situation where it becomes the norm for a book and it's pictures to "become one", and legal deviation to become far, far rarer.

[Bêthberry]

I've thought of something that is tangential to Mister U's and Alfirin's points, but I'll post it anyway.

Books can be shared, physically. Can e-texts/e-books be shared digitally? Once you have a book on your Kindle, is there any way you can pass it on to a friend's Kindle? If there's this extensive social media capability, is there this sharing capability? I wouldn't think so, unless the Kindle itself was shared, as that would cut into profits I would think.

[Mister Underhill]

You know, I wasn't sure myself so I had to look:

Lending Kindle Books

The short answer is -- if the rights holder has enabled it, a Kindle book can be "loaned once for a period of 14 days". Definitely a downside of ebooks, though of course with all the public domain stuff out there it's not an issue. In fact, the opposite -- you can turn someone on to a book without losing your copy.

It'll be interesting to see how things develop. Right now, most publishers are still pricing ebooks on a par with or even more than physical books, but there's a lot of downward pressure on that from various directions, and a lot of controversy in the publishing community about the appropriate price for an ebook. Ultimately I think something like what happened with music is going to happen here -- they're going to have to price books low enough (plus add whatever other sort of value, like social networking) so that it's more convenient to just buy it than to pirate it.