Palantiri

[ecthelion]

In The Two Towers Gandalf says that the palantri were made by the Noldor, maybe even Feanor himself. So if they were made by Feanor and his craftsmen wouldn't they have been brought over to middle earth when the noldor rebelled and used in the wars of beleriand? Because in the Silmarillion it never says anything about the palantri.

[Rumil]

Good point ecthelion,

I remember that they were noted as being evacuated from Numenor on Elendil's little fleet.

So either they were brought to the Numenoreans out of Tol Eressea, during the times that the elves still had good relations with the Kings, or they had been given to the Three Tribes in Beleriand, or they were a gift from the remaining elves (eg Gil Galad) during the Second Age.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rumil

So either they were brought to the Numenoreans out of Tol Eressea, during the times that the elves still had good relations with the Kings, or they had been given to the Three Tribes in Beleriand, or they were a gift from the remaining elves (eg Gil Galad) during the Second Age.

The implication appears to be that the Stones were given to the Faithful of Númenor by the Eldar of Eressëa before the Downfall.

And Seven Stones (the Faithful) had, the gift of the Eldar.

Akallabêth

If the Númenóreans had been in possession of the Stones from the time of the First Age, surely the Faithful alone would not have been allowed by the Kings to solely possess them on the island, and Elendil and Co. would not have been able to take them when they fled.

As for their usage during the First Age, I rather think the Noldor in ME did not have them. It's unlikely they would have avoided capture by Morgoth, and I don't see how seven of them would have been saved from the wreck of Beleriand in the War of Wrath at any rate.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

If the Stones were in use in the West at the time of Fëanor's revolt, I doubt that he would have had the time to go collect them before setting out. He was extremely focused on recovering the Silmarils; he didn't appear to have thought for anything else Melkor might have taken from his hoard in Formenos (and it is stated in TS that Melkor took whatever had been locked up there). One would assume that the things Fëanor made the effort to lock away were somehow precious to him, but he never mentioned the loss of anything that was stolen but the Silmarils. Given all that, it seems to me that if Fëanor indeed made the palantiri, he counted them among his lesser works that he had already given away before he left Aman. It also seems that Melkor wasn't terribly impressed by them, either, since he never expressed any desire to own them.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

It also seems that Melkor wasn't terribly impressed by them, either, since he never expressed any desire to own them.

If Melkor knew about the Stones, he probably would have seen them (like the "Fëanorian lamps") as nothing more than interesting toys. Melkor doesn't seem to have had any difficulty communicating with his minions, and that was, after all, the primary purpose of the Palantíri.

[Rumil]

Hi all,

agreeing with Inzil that it sounds as if gifts to the Faithful of Numenor is the best explanation.

I think that Melkor would have had a use for them, ie finding Gondolin! However, during his raid on Feanor's hoard (if that's where they were) perhaps he didn't have time to check everything out in detail. Glass balls? - nah, I'll have the jewels thanks.

Maybe Feanor shyed away from publicising the palantiri - after all they might carry a connotation of 'spying'. I doubt Fingolfin would have been very impressed if he knew that Feanor had made a snooping device.

[Boromir88]

There is a reference in The Silmarillion to 'crystals' that Feanor made, which strangely sound like the palantiri:

'and other crystals he made also, wherein things far away could be seen small but clear, as with the eyes of the eagles of Manwe.'~Of Feanor and the unchainging of Melkor

Tolkien never spells it out for us, as "these crystals = palantiri" but we should be able to put 2 and 2 together to make 4 here. How many crystals which allow you to see far away lands, clearly as eagles' eyes exist in Arda?

[skip spence]

It's been a long time since I read Unfinished Tales and the Palantiri part, but weren't they as a general rule rather large and heavy objects, although the one in Ortanc was an obvious exception? I mean, they were perhaps not objects you would hastily put in your back pocket before heading out of a mad march to regain something much more precious. Feanor could also have gifted away the Palantiri to the Teleri in his younger more carefree days, who can tell?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by skip spence

It's been a long time since I read Unfinished Tales and the Palantiri part, but weren't they as a general rule rather large and heavy objects, although the one in Ortanc was an obvious exception? I mean, they were perhaps not objects you would hastily put in your back pocket before heading out of a mad march to regain something much more precious. Feanor could also have gifted away the Palantiri to the Teleri in his younger more carefree days, who can tell?

The UT essay says:

At smallest they were about a foot in diameter, but some, certainly the Stones of Osgiliath and Amon Sûl, were much larger and could not be lifted by one man.

"A foot in diameter", a bit larger than a standard tenpin bowling ball. Makes one feel sorry for Aragorn's horse, which probably carried the Orthanc-stone all the way from Dol Baren to Minas Tirith.