WWLXX: At the Prison of Ice

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Expedition Journal - Prologue

As it has been said, the expedition I have been assigned to was heading to regions of the far Arctic. I attended it on behalf of my good friend, sir Michael Bishop, who spent part of his company's earnings to fund projects such as this. This expedition has been a part of a research project organised by a group of people from several countries, aiming at large-scale ecological and climatological studies of a specific area between North Latitude 78°-86°. Our team consisted of several esteemed experts in the fields ranging widely from meteorology to polar biology, representing some high-ranking universities and institutes. Our plan in short was to leave at the end of the summer season from well-known arctic port in Barrow, Alaska and head west of the Chukchi Sea to collect meteorological and oceanographic data in the open sea. Then we will turn to the archipelagos of the Old World to make further observations of terrestrial flora and fauna, with a brief visit and exchange of information with the personnel of the Russian NP drifting ice station. By the middle of autumn we would reach Schmidt Island and deploy several buoys north of the Kara Sea to monitor and collect data, and at last we would head to one of the nearby polar stations to winter.

The start of the expedition was accompanied by several complications, as if something already marked its ill-omened course, or as if some other power wished to mercifully prevent us from attending it. Our very departure from Barrow was delayed by a week and three days due to an unexpected malfunction of the ship's engine, which was subsequently repaired, however after twenty days of sail we were forced once again to head for emergency docking in Dikson, Krasnoyarsk to perform another necessary repair. It was at this point when we started to worry about the fate of our expedition, as our aims were to avoid spending the peak of the winter season aboard the icebreaker. Our Russian colleagues have advised us to speed up our journey, and so it came that by autumn equinox we have managed to finish our observations in the Laptev Sea and at the beginning of November we found ourselves in waters close to 82°N 79°E, past Ushakov Island. The sea was already full of pack ice, yet our icebreaker moved smoothly enough for a long time until the unfortunate accident.

***

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[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Approximately at 0:45 AM on November 29th sudden crash awoke me from sleep in my cabin. When I ran out into the corridor outside, I encountered our palaeoclimatologist and his mathematician colleague rushing from the stern where our "common room" was situated. Apparently they have been awake, yet even they could not tell what happened. When we rushed on the upper deck, we encountered the rest of our crew, and also saw the deck covered with shards of ice. Our mechanic went away and came back with the confirmation of our fears: the ship had apparently crushed into a vast mass of ice, a thickened ridge which it was unable to penetrate, and even though its hull was only partially damaged, it seemed that the propellers might have received some damage, possibly by debris of ice getting into the propeller shafts. We could not get a proper account of these events, however, as apparently only our captain had been on the deck when it happened, yet we could not find any trace of him. Some speculated that possibly he was on the deck when it happened and the impact had somehow swept him overboard, yet why would he be on the deck? Simultaneously, we noticed that the data transmitter in the cabin was broken, possibly as the crash damaged its subtle mechanism. That effectively dismissed our hopes for further advancement with the ship for the time being, even if it was still movable. We needed constant updates on our ice drift charts if we were to find a way out of here.

Fortunately, our survival expert took lead at that point. Our expedition had such one - although even many of the others were skilled specialists who have spent more than one season on the ice (one of them being a veteran of the Antarctic expedition to Mt. Mallis). Our survival expert presented us with a plan: she would take half of us to the ice back in our own trail and look for the missing captain, and half of us would stay on the ship and try to assess the damage we have suffered. In the worst case, if the ship proved immovable and irreparable for us, we will send a distress call. Repeatedly, our survival expert asked us to remain calm and not to get stressed.

LIVING MEMBERS OF THE EXPEDITION:

Inziladun - meteorologist
Mnemosyne - field medic
Boromir88 - senior assistant to a professor of glaciology
Eomer of the Rohirrim - sea pilot
Loslote - rich funder's spoiled daughter
Morsul - federal grants lawyer
Brinn - polar bear biologist
Pitchwife - marine biologist
Nienna - navigator
Nogrod - old palaeoecologist with is own theory of climate change
Macalaure - palaeomathematician
sally - the original initiator of the expedition
Thinlómien - whale expert
Nerwen - mechanic
Roa - survival guide
Bes - room/store manager
Shasta - sled-dog handler
wilwa - crewmember
Greenie - senior assitant to important scientists in the company
tromkehra - cook/bartender

It is now Night 1. PMs with your roles are being sent to everybody now. As soon as you get your roles, Werewolves may PM each other. Ranger and Hunter may PM each other. Others, remain asleep. No posting on this thread until Day 1 starts. Everybody don't forget to turn yourselves invisible. (in your User CP => edit options, tick the box and save at the bottom of the page)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

The reconnaisance team returned at about 3:30 AM with no news about the missing man, yet the only logical explanation was that he indeed went overboard and fell into the rift created by the ship, and sunk. This realisation shook us, but that was only the beginning of the horrors which were about to unfold. The reconnaisance team also informed us that they have spotted what they thought was either an iceberg or a small island rock not very far to the southwest from our trail. We did not know yet the significance which this landmark will take for us in the following days. For now, all our thoughts were occupied with the damaged ship: it seemed, our chief engineer had stated, that we will be able to move, he only wanted to be sure that there is no damage which would prove critical later on and wanted to thoroughly check the ship himself. We left him with the repairs and went to sleep, as many of us had not slept at all that night.

If we only have not listened to our calm leader and sent a pan-pan call right at the moment, things might have taken a very different course. But nothing could have stopped what was happening when we woke up and found the communication, navigation and electrical control devices smashed hopelessly beyond repair. Horrified, we rushed below, only to find the lead engineer's motionless body entangled in a knot of power cables in the underdeck. His face was pallid, his eyes wide open, staring into the ceiling. Most of us shuddered in horror upon seeing his expression. What happened here? That was the mutual question, and we felt reluctant to answer it. And when at last few brave ones examined the body, our fears have been confirmed. This could not have been a suicide, our field medic stated. Somebody strangled that poor man. We stood there, eyeing each other, not knowing what to do, but then again our meteorologist roused us into action. His words were sharp and fast, but we felt he was right – it was necessary to make clear who was responsible for this and why he or she did it.

LIVING MEMBERS OF THE EXPEDITION:

Inziladun - meteorologist
Mnemosyne - field medic
Boromir88 - senior assistant to a professor of glaciology
Eomer of the Rohirrim - sea pilot
Loslote - rich funder's spoiled daughter
Morsul - federal grants lawyer
Brinn - polar bear biologist
Pitchwife - marine biologist
Nienna - navigator
Nogrod - old palaeoecologist with is own theory of climate change
Macalaure - palaeomathematician
sally - the original initiator of the expedition
Thinlómien - whale expert
Nerwen - mechanic
Roa - survival guide
Bes - room/store manager
Shasta - sled-dog handler
wilwa - crewmember
Greenie - senior assitant to important scientists in the company
tromkehra - cook/bartender

Day 1 begins. Werewolves, Hunter and Ranger, stop PMing. Everyone, you may start posting here.

[Mnemosyne]

Okay, who here is secretly funded by Evil Rich Corporations Who Want To Make Money At The Cost of Destroying The Environment?

...I've been watching too much Captain Planet lately...

On a more serious note, let's not be too eager to look for Grand Conspiracy Theories when there could be more simple motives at hand. Did anyone have something against our engineer?

*thinks more*

On the other hand, considering that we need our engineer to get out of here...

Does anyone have something against all of us?

Aside from the whole showering issue, of course.

[Nogrod]

We could apply my theory of "radical contingency and non-linear anticipation of quantumlevel events" I made a paper for the Royal Society on May 23th 2003 - and combine it with some fractal-analysis and the interesting pieces of hitherto unknown Mayan myths on predestination I have quite recently published a book about? ("Is the time-space continuum a trick by God to test our faith? - The early medieval Mayan metaphysical escathology approached from a modern scientific angle", Oxford University Press 2008)

For the question sure is which unlikely events are unlikely for real and which are unlikely only when predicted on the basis of bad old-fashioned mechanistic theories that should be thrown to the same grave with the most honourable sir Isaac (esq.)?

I mean you medics are always so down to earth and I appreciate it when you're stiching a wound or mending a broken collarbone, but you know, we have lots to learn from balancing our chakras first. Awakening the kundalini-energies would be releasing such an infinite reserve of untapped power we could run the whole planet on western living-standards without a single milligramme of emissions!

So let's not forget that the world is not as it looks like it is. Only brave and bold science not chained by everyday trivia and perceptual commonplaces can reveal the hidden truth of the universe - and thence of our fate as well.

Now please excuse me, I have some lab-work to do as my latest set of experiments requires my full attention rather immediately.

[Mnemosyne]

Nogrod, my friend, I have three words for you:

Peer.

Reviewed.

Journals.

I may not be familiar with your field, but I know a pedant when I see one, and let me tell you I don't trust any theory until it's been verified multiple times by multiple parties, and published in multiple journals, preferably with different interests (aside from the noble interest in Scientific Veracity) in mind to show that their minds haven't been swayed by anticipation of the results. That's why they like doing double blind tests in my field--though I haven't done much work on that sort of experimental stuff since my days in med school.

As for your chakra theories (though I do appreciate your appreciation for actual medical science), this is the best thing I can say in response.

[Loslote]

Interesting discussion so far. Many long words. I found it inspiring. I'd try to understand it, but honestly, I'm too lazy. I'll just say Nog was being very scientific and Mnemo, for some reason, doesn't appreciate the lack of showers. Meh...not too much to comment on, is there?

[Nienna]

Wow kids way to be productive so far. Nogrod I'm shocked at you. This is a new side that I haven't seen. Not that it isn't a nice side but its different.

So we have 4 wolves, two gifteds and a secret role. Unless the secret role is a seer we don't have one of those. Our gifteds can talk though so they know each other which will give us known innocents later in the game. We've had a lot of early reveals without reason lately and I don't really recommend this. Voting toDay is necessary so someone will be lynched. We don't want to loose a gifted to day One lynching either so that would be the only real reason I can see for revealing.

I'll be around tonight and a few hours before deadline but I have class when deadline is so I won't be around then.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Nienna

We've had a lot of early reveals without reason lately and I don't really recommend this.

Agreed. McCaber's game was just painful. Let's try to avoid tons of reveals and false-reveals and counter-reveals and such. They pretty much just make major headaches. And like Nienna said, it's not really helpful.

Deadline is iffy for me, too, but I should be around. It's noon my time, but I probably can get on around eleven...here's hoping.

[Nogrod]

*hears the medic's words from the door and turns*

Show me a verified theory, any theory, and I'll show you a perpetuum mobile...

You can predict a thing happens - like that a hypothesis "works" - for any foreseen scenario, but they always predict only individual cases ("this pen on my hand will fall if I release it now"). But the fact that the prediction is fullfilled has nothing to do with verifying any abstract theory whatsoever (how do you jump from a positive result of an individual pen dropping to the law of gravitation?).

So let's just stick with probabilistic theories leaving room for indeterministic factors in the universe and forget that outdated mainstream hodgepodge that is suited for naturalists and other mechanical deteminists who don't have the faintest of the actual quantum-machanics behind the universe but are stuck with their 18th century views on things?

Oh, my test-tubes... excuse me...

[Inziladun]

Well, the local weather is not as bad as it might be. Based upon barometric, thermometric, and cloud observations, I don't think we'll see any precipitation for the next few days. However, with the destruction caused to our electronics, I no longer have access to radar and satellite information. As many of you are no doubt aware, temperature variations in this area can be considerable, due to low-presssure cyclonic activity moving in from the North Atlantic. It is most important that power to the ship be maintained.
Now, to the business that troubles us most. While I am a servant of empiricism by trade, my mind has always been rather imaginative. Certainly it seems the disppearance of the captain, and subsequent murder of the one best equipped to aid us in returning to habitable lands, are related. Why? I don't believe in such coincidences. But why would one of our own, whose fate is bound with ours at this juncture, wish to commit such acts? Could there be any explanation or motive that does not involve one of us?

[Pitchwife]

Fascinating as your expositions sound, my esteemed colleague Nogrod, I must admit I fail to perceive how they pertain to our current predicament.
All I can say with any certainty is that this death can hardly have been caused by any marine creature native to these latitudes that I'm familiar with. Anything with well-developped tentacles would probably qualify for the strangling, but I don't think a kraken or octopus could have demolished the controls like that, and the corpse doesn't show any marks of suction cups.
Nienna mentions wolves, which, however, are unlikely to be found in the Arctic Sea, miles from any land.
No, this looks like the work of human hands; and as we're quite isolated from civilization and outside interference, it seems we must look for the culprit among our team - appalling as the thought is. (Unless we have a stowaway on board; it would be a good idea to search the cargo holds.)

EDIT: x-ed with the meteorologist.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Agreed. McCaber's game was just painful. Let's try to avoid tons of reveals and false-reveals and counter-reveals and such. They pretty much just make major headaches. And like Nienna said, it's not really helpful.

Miss Lottie, with all due respect, you seem to be confusing our serious emergency with one those online games your generation indulges in!
I confess, however, I sometimes play those games myself for recreation after hours of strenuous research. It just so happens I was part of the very game you mention, and my subjective impression was that the reveals actually were quite helpful - the villagers defeated the wolves, remember?
Not that I advocate any rash actions by specially talented people, if such be among our crew - not now, at least, while we still know very little about our situation. But the time may come.

[Boromir88]

As far as I'm concerned Legate deserved it for being too lazy to report my title properly. And I want to lynch sally for trying to go bigger.

On the brighter side, I would like to enter into a partnership/compare notes with Brinn for the obvious sarcastic reasons.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Miss Lottie, with all due respect, you seem to be confusing our serious emergency with one those online games your generation indulges in!
I confess, however, I sometimes play those games myself for recreation after hours of strenuous research. It just so happens I was part of the very game you mention, and my subjective impression was that the reveals actually were quite helpful - the villagers defeated the wolves, remember?
Not that I advocate any rash actions by specially talented people, if such be among our crew - not now, at least, while we still know very little about our situation. But the time may come.

Yes. They ended up being helpful. Mostly because no one knew what was going on. And remember, we skipped over the wolf in the batch, Morsul, and left him alive for much longer than he probably would have lasted otherwise. Plus, I had already written "for Morsul was the Agent" in my poem, and when I finally figured out what had happened, the poem was already ruined.

[Nerwen]

Well, here's the bad news: whoever smashed up the equipment did a very thorough job. I've had another look, but I getting it working again would be impossible, as far as I can see. So, we're on our own. Just confirming that.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Now, to the business that troubles us most. While I am a servant of empiricism by trade, my mind has always been rather imaginative. Certainly it seems the disppearance of the captain, and subsequent murder of the one best equipped to aid us in returning to habitable lands, are related. Why? I don't believe in such coincidences. But why would one of our own, whose fate is bound with ours at this juncture, wish to commit such acts?

Academic quarrel? You scientific types get carried away sometimes... *nods darkly*

Originally Posted by Loslote

Yes. They ended up being helpful. Mostly because no one knew what was going on. And remember, we skipped over the wolf in the batch, Morsul, and left him alive for much longer than he probably would have lasted otherwise.

Yes, I play those games too. Just because the baddies chose to give themselves away in one game doesn't mean they will again– and definitely doesn't mean it'll work that way in real life.

[Pitchwife]

Another possible motive - somebody's interested in sabotaging scientific progress. Hmmm, let me think... militant defenders of popular mythology who want to stop us from finding out the truth about Father Christmas? Somehow this doesn't look very promising...
Anyway, it's good to see some more of our colleagues participating in the discussion. Unfortunately, I must retire for a while and pickle some specimens, but I'll be back later in the Day, hoping for something more to go on by then. Oh, and I'd volunteer for having a look at the cargo holds, since I suggested it, but frankly, I don't care to go down there alone while a murderer's hiding on board.
See you later!

[Macalaure]

Pretty much nothing but academic disputes dominating the discussion so far. Not very thrilling. Obviously, our scientific efforts have to take the back seat now and finding out who killed our lead engineer has to be of primary priority. If we don't solve that problem first, all our results won't ever make it back into the civilised world.

I agree with Pitchwife that the murderer(s) are most likely among ourselves. However, the prehistoric equations I discovered have not yet led me to the slightest clue concerning their identity. I shall be back when there is more to go at.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Pretty much nothing but academic disputes dominating the discussion so far. Not very thrilling. Obviously, our scientific efforts have to take the back seat now and finding out who killed our lead engineer has to be of primary priority. If we don't solve that problem first, all our results won't ever make it back into the civilised world.

I quite concur. Survival must take precedence over science, when the two are in conflict with one another.
Having very little in the way of evidence, we are reduced to analysing one another, looking for suspicious behaviour.
Let's see....

Mnemosyne was the first to speak up about the current situation. The comment about 'conspiracy theories' seemed a bit odd, considering no one else had mentioned the possibility of the existence of something of that nature. Nothing else particularly strikes me about her.

Nogrod was going on about 'energies' that could power the world with zero harmful emissions. Oddly enough, I think I heard that fellow Nog on a talk radio show once. Coast To Coast AM With Art Bell, or something like that.

Pitchwife has seemed level-headed thus far, trying to keep us addle-brained scientific types on focus in dealing with the issues of the murder and our ship's plight. And black humour, to boot.

Loslote and Nienna: Nothing of note.

Nerwen , our mechanic, says the damage to the ship is irrepairable. Most unwelcome news. All the more pressing then, is our goal to solve the death of the engineer and the disappearance of the captain.

Terribly little to go on, I'm afraid. It would be helpful if the rest of our group would sound off.

[Mnemosyne]

Inziladun, clearly you have failed to read up on your popular culture. Whenever any environmental expedition is sabotaged (as this one clearly is; anyone with an axe to grind against our engineer would have waited until after he'd fixed our ship) it's always evil capitalist corporations at work. Unless it's written by Michael Crichton, in which the environment itself is being carefully manipulated by evil environmentalist corporations to create the appearance of disaster and thus get the people to surrender more power to them.

As far as the role discussion goes... that's basically everyone's attempts to get something productive done on a Day One scenario. Since we're not given too much new material to chew over, I can't think of any other productive pot-stirring methods. At the same time, what else is there really to say, except, "Don't Reveal"?

*sigh*

Not much to be done, really. I can never get a feel for anyone off Day One, and the "what if this suspect's a gifted?" paranoia is doubled because the gifteds, like the baddies, know each other--giving the teams one more similarity that my addled pate really can't afford.

Fortunately the Day is young.

So in the meantime, I will leave you* with this poser...

What's less helpful: people filling the gamethread with mindless Day One bantering drivel, or people filling the gamethread with mindless platitudes about gameplay that everyone will agree upon anyway?

Gosh, where's a good controversy when you need it?

*not really

[Roa_Aoife]

*Unlocks weapon cabinet and loads a rifle*

All right people, let's not beat around the bush. Someone here is a killer, and we need to figure out who before they get the rest of us. For now, no one wanders off alone. Pairs, trios, whatever, just make sure you're with someone at all times. You eggheads over there- knock off the scientific debate. We have more important things to concern ourselves with.
[/in character posting]


Okay, now that that's out of the way: Early Day 1, I know, I know, but can we please get down to business? Yes *gasp* it's wolves. There are three of them. "Oh, how do you know that?" "This isn't an online game you know...."

Blah, blah, blah. Yes, it is. Thank you, Nienna and Loslote, for getting to the point. Can the rest of stop giving the wolves banter to hide in? For the record, I have nothing against in characterness, and everyone should have some fun with their character (I intend to), but when it gets in the way of game play it's going a bit too far.

I'm looking at you, Pitch. *eye to eye motion* Really, "no wolves in the artic sea..."

Edit: Crossed with Mnemo

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

I can never get a feel for anyone off Day One, and the "what if this suspect's a gifted?" paranoia is doubled because the gifteds, like the baddies, know each other--giving the teams one more similarity that my addled pate really can't afford.

You shouldn't concern yourself with that. It's the gifteds' job to look after themselves and us. It's our job to lynch wolves. Worrying over the gifteds will only help the wolves win. Focus on wolf hunting- it's the best you can do.

What's less helpful: people filling the gamethread with mindless Day One bantering drivel, or people filling the gamethread with mindless platitudes about gameplay that everyone will agree upon anyway?

Gosh, where's a good controversy when you need it?

Oh, Oh! Can we start up a "Day 1's are useless/ not useless" debate? Those are always so much fun.

[Mnemosyne]

Ooh, I actually have a succinct answer to that one:

"Day 1's are useful on Day 1 only when there is sufficient weirdness to start a discussion. All other Day 1's are only useful after the fact."

Or...

"Day 1's are useful when they nab us a wolf."

Okay, I can't think of anything else to say on that subject at the moment...

I should have asked for a fresh controversy, shouldn't I?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Okay, now that that's out of the way: Early Day 1, I know, I know, but can we please get down to business? Yes *gasp* it's wolves. There are three of them. "Oh, how do you know that?" "This isn't an online game you know...."

Three wolves? Really?

[Mnemosyne]

Gosh, double-posting...

Roa, as for whether ordos should think about gifteds in game... (and this actually can be a meritorious debate as long as it doesn't clog the thread, IMO)

Problem is, I've seen (and been in) games where time and again gifted people get lynched because people seriously thought they were wolves. But no one ever wants to talk about whether this suspect might actually be gifted or not because they never want to give the real wolves ideas.

Which is a totally legitimate concern. And why it's smart to limit talk about gifteds (yet here I am, talking about them... yeesh).

But the same paranoia's going to niggle at my brain, whether I voice it or not. I can't ignore it. And maybe it's bad experience, and maybe it's none of my business, but I don't want to do the wolves' job for them by lynching--or letting lynch--or forcing a reveal, precipitating a Night kill--the people who are supposed to help us.

That's probably all I'm going to say on the topic, because, Roa, you do have some points and if we talk about this too much it 1). distracts from finding wolves, and 2). generally exposes the Gifteds even more.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Three wolves? Really?

Ha, you got to that before I did. My understanding is 4 wolves...unless we want to enter into a debate over the # of wolves, plus whether one of them is a double-spy for us again? That was fun.

I prefer this one though.

What's less helpful: people filling the gamethread with mindless Day One bantering drivel, or people filling the gamethread with mindless platitudes about gameplay that everyone will agree upon anyway?~Mnemo

I chose the mindless drivel of banter over saying what everyone agrees on (see Mac's..."I agree with Pitch's obvious statement")

But I also like a good debate over something substantial that is not so obvious. As every once in a while, someone brings up a new idea/strategy/theory/whatchamacallit that is not obvious, and provides a plethora of opinions.

Mnemo looks good.

Nog looks like he is going to enjoy this way too much.

Edit: crossed with Mnemo

[Macalaure]

A pointless summary, lacking anything better to do.


Mnemo does a wonderful Form-impression of hating Day Ones. Bravo!

Nogrod talked a lot, but has yet to contribute something useful.

Lottie has posted, but didn't say anything of consequence.

Nienna is trying to work with the very little we have. Fair enough.

Inzil says nothing that tries to look like something. Suspicious. Unfortunately, empirical knowledge tells me that I'm always led to believe he's guilty and then he's not.

Pitch didn't say much either, but he gives me an innocent feel, for some reason.

Boro has verified his existence. Go him.

Nerwen hasn't done anything remarkable either.

Roa lacks counting skills, but made me laugh.


PS: In my opinion, a gifted that manages to have the village believe s/he's a wolf is fully deserving of his/her inevitable fate.

edit: crossed with Boro - my "I agree with Pitch" was half-in-character, by the way.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Problem is, I've seen (and been in) games where time and again gifted people get lynched because people seriously thought they were wolves. But no one ever wants to talk about whether this suspect might actually be gifted or not because they never want to give the real wolves ideas.

Which is a totally legitimate concern. And why it's smart to limit talk about gifteds (yet here I am, talking about them... yeesh).

I don't think the gifteds, unless for some reason they become revealed to us, should be a concern at all. Let them do their thing, and we'll do ours: getting the wolves.
And you're right: I see no point in talking of it further.

x/d with Boro and Mac

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I don't think the gifteds, unless for some reason they become revealed to us, should be a concern at all. Let them do their thing, and we'll do ours: getting the wolves.
And you're right: I see no point in talking of it further.

And how many times have we lynched gifteds because they need to look just as suspicious as wolves, but not too suspicious (making them look to us even more suspicious than the suspicious wolves) so the wolves don't kill them?

On the flip side, how many times do the reasonable, agreeable ones (myself often included in this, I admit) get free passes early, for being just that...reasonable and agreeable?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

And how many times have we lynched gifteds because they need to look just as suspicious as wolves, but not too suspicious (making them look to us even more suspicious than the suspicious wolves) so the wolves don't kill them?

Huh?

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

And how many times have we lynched gifteds because they need to look just as suspicious as wolves, but not too suspicious (making them look to us even more suspicious than the suspicious wolves) so the wolves don't kill them?

On the flip side, how many times do the reasonable, agreeable ones (myself often included in this, I admit) get free passes early, for being just that...reasonable and agreeable?

Firstly, oops. Four wolves....

Secondly, speak for yourself- half the suspicions against me are always, "She sounds so reasonable but you never can tell with Roa..." But then, why should we lynch the people who makes sense and are reasonable rather than the people who don't makes sense and are unreasonable? If we start throwing reasonableness in there as a suspicious action, we may as well just start voting at random, because there will be no point in analyzing anyone.

I agree with Mac- a gifted that gets themselves lynched deserves their fate. The only people who have a reason to try to spot gifteds are the wolves. The rest of us are supposed to be wolf spotting.

[Roa_Aoife]

So what exactly are you trying to say, Boromir?

[tromkehra]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

*Unlocks weapon cabinet and loads a rifle*

All right people, let's not beat around the bush. Someone here is a killer, and we need to figure out who before they get the rest of us.

I completely agree, I don't want anyone stabbin' me in the back.

*Takes a gun from the cabinet.* I'll go with one or two of the 'egg heads,' as you've put it ma'am. Doubt they've ever had the need to fire a gun before.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

I agree with Mac- a gifted that gets themselves lynched deserves their fate. The only people who have a reason to try to spot gifteds are the wolves. The rest of us are supposed to be wolf spotting.

Exactly. I mean, yes, it's true we've lynched gifteds a lot lately, to the point where I can understand people getting paranoid– but there's really not much the village as a whole can do to prevent it.

As for Boro... echoing Zil, what are you trying to say, Boro? That we should not lynch suspicious people? That we should lynch anyone who makes sense instead? Really?

EDIT:X'd with Lottie; fixed quotes.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

So what exactly are you trying to say, Boromir?

I'm saying it's not as easy as "lets vote for wolves and any gifted who gets lynched deserves it." Because there is a logical and understandable reason for a gifted to want to look suspicious and hope it's not so suspicious they get lynched.

There is also a logical and understandable reason for wolves to want to look reasonable and agreeable so they don't get lynched. It's the dynamics of their situations.

Wolves biggest danger is the lynch, thus look reasonable to avoid it. The gifteds biggest danger is dying at night, by the wolves, thus they tend to want to attract suspicion to keep the wolves away.

Did I say we just go lynching all the reasonable ones? No. But it's a good start on Day 1, and lets try to separate the true ones from the fakers and don't be trigger happy on the people who jump out early as ones who make you "nervous."

edit: crossed with Boro - my "I agree with Pitch" was half-in-character, by the way.~Mac

The suspicion was directed more towards Pitch for making such an obvious statement and that being the only thing that really stands out about him at the moment.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

As for Boro... echoing Zil, what are you trying to say, Boro? That we should not lynch suspicious people? That we should lynch anyone who makes sense instead? Really?

Wolves can't make sense? That's a first.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Wolves can't make sense? That's a first.

Seriously, if we start lynching people because they make sense, I'm quitting. Of course wolves can make sense. Of course innocents could lack sense. But saying we should lynch someone because they make sense is utterly ridiculous, and exactly what the wolves would want. They want the strong rational players that aren't drawing suspicion out of the way, because an innocent who doesn't draw suspicion is one less person to get lynched in place of a wolf. What you're suggesting basically gives the wolves a lot more places to hide, and little to fear in watching their step. It is because the wolves have to pretend that we can catch them. Targeting the reasonable means that the wolves don't have to be so careful. Your whole line of reasoning is flawed, and more than that, helps the wolves.

[Brinniel]

Ugh, I just remembered how awful this deadline is for me. I'm only going to be around for a small window during the first half of the Day, unfortunately. So I'll do my best to participate now, though I'm afraid it's not much.

Nienna seemed to be the first to move away from the banter, which I appreciate. Right now I'm just too tired to process any long bantery posts, so let's just stay on-topic, okay?

On the subject of the gifteds, I agree we just leave it alone and not worry about accidentally lynching them. Our roles are our own responsibility and it's up to the gifted how they play. If we lynch them, it's not our fault; they are the ones to blame because it is by their own actions that makes them suspicious. And anyway, if we focus too much on who the gifteds may be and how to avoid them, we may end up leaving clues for the wolves, which could be quite dangerous if any of them are accurate.

Btw, I don't think Boro is saying let's lynch those who make sense and leave alone anyone who is acting suspicious. I think he's just trying to say we need to keep in mind that not everyone who is obviously suspicious is a wolf (and may even be possibly gifted) and not everyone who makes sense is innocent. So we can't make any assumptions based on that alone. Which I agree.

How I hate Day Ones. Not that they're useless, but I always have trouble coming to any conclusions, especially this early in the Day. I don't think it'd be right for me to vote now since it'd have to be completely random and I'm not in the mood for randomness. So I may not vote at all toDay. There's a possibility I'll be able to pop in real quick and vote later toMorrow, but don't have any high expectations.

P.S. I also think we should keep in mind that the polar bears are an endangered species and we must work to save them. Because if we can't catch the wolves, the polar bears will totally do the job for us and eat them for breakfast.

[Bes]

Well, we've got plenty of food, water and other good stuff. We could just hunker down for a while, wait for a rescue team to come out, and let the police handle this whole mess. Don't get me wrong, I won't sleep easy knowin' we got a murderer on our hands, but I don't know that we're any safer for panicking...
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Sorry I'm late. I usually won't be on most days.

I wish I had more to contribute for the first day? I guess the only thing striking me is how a lot of Boro's arguments lean towards "Don't kill suspicious people, they might be gifted!" followed by backpedaling when someone carries that to it's logical conclusion... To be fair, I'm over simplifying that, and his argument has been fully qualified and then rejoined by people more awake that myself.

So... I guess that means I have nothing of value to contribute after all. Uhm.

Out of curiosity, has anyone ever successfully forged an agreement to not place a lynch vote for the first day? It seems like a succinct solution to the dilemma, but the odds of getting all of the players to actually agree to it seems very low.

[Roa_Aoife]

Nope. Unfortunate as it may turn out to be should we lynch an innocent, the voting record is remarkably useful on the following Day.