Degrading LotR in the Name of Merchandising - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Losthuniel · 10-08-2002, 05:36 PM

As i was walking home today, i saw a bus with an advertisment for New York Fries. There was a picture of some fries, anfd the caption the read: "Lord of the Fries" Is it just me or is that a LotR reference? (it may be just me...)
Anyone else seen anything similar?

NazgulNumberTen · 10-08-2002, 05:45 PM

lord of the fries?
(hangs self with shoe laces)

[ October 08, 2002: Message edited by: NazgulNumberTen ]

Arwen Imladris · 10-08-2002, 05:58 PM

I haven't seen anything like that. Maybe it was referring to the Lord of the Flies? (another book wich is very very dumb, don't ever ever read it if you can help it) I think that Bored of the Rings is worse then that.

Tigerlily Gamgee · 10-08-2002, 09:37 PM

There can be "Lord of the anything...." without it being linked to LOTR.
I mean... yes, there is Lord of the Flies(which makes more sense as a parody in this case), and there is also Lord of the Dance.
The word "Lord" is not copywritten to LOTR, so other people are allowed to use it without it being directly related to LOTR.

If you want to talk merchandsing then look at all of the recent releases for the movie (which I guiltily own some of). But there have been LOTR things for many years, it's just that this much attention wasn't drawn to it in the past.

DaughterofVana · 10-08-2002, 10:16 PM

Back when FOTR was about to come out in the theatres Burger King had glass collector mugs and little talking plastic happy-meal toys. THAT really made me a little disappointed.

Sorry, going off-topic, but not too much, hopefully: When the Powers that Be that control the late Tolkien's estate sold the movie rights to PJ, did they sell marketing rights as well to Weta films or whoever is producing the trilogy? I'm just wondering how the Tolkien people (for lack of a better title) would have okay'd that. I always thought that they were pretty discreet on who uses the Tolkien(r) name. Anybody know?

-'Vana

Kalimac · 10-08-2002, 11:06 PM

Lord of the Fries is also a weird card game which has been a fixture on (at least two) college campuses since before LOTR even started filming, so I think it's more a joke on the phrase "Lord of the Flies" than anything. As for merchandising in general, I can't really get too upset about it. I don't buy it, but if some people want to buy it and other people are willing to sell it, it's no skin off my nose.

DaughterofVana, I might be wrong about this but I think Tolkien actually sold the movie rights in the late sixties (there were a few interesting letters from him regarding one script he had seen which apparently changed EVERYTHING and made the Eagles come to the rescue approximately every twenty minutes). I'm not sure what the status of the rights have been since then, but I get the feeling that they were being sold from studio to studio, so to speak, and that the Tolkien family had no say over it. Certainly it's hard to imagine Christopher Tolkien ever letting ANYONE take a crack at filming the books while he was alive. And while I wasn't around in the late sixties, I doubt that movies were merchandised in the same way or that it was even really a concept ("2001: The Happy Meal"). So the Tolkien family wouldn't have had anything to do with that part of it, though it's easy to imagine them being annoyed.

DaughterofVana · 10-08-2002, 11:29 PM

Now that you say something, I DO remember reading somewhere that Tolkien did some merchandising of his books right before his death, and that some of it included movie rights. So the "studio to studio" thing could be very possible. I have no idea how those things work, being only a meager college student and unwise in the ways of the world. It seems plausible that if and when rights change hands that the third party (IE, Tolkien Estate) has to be notified and their blessings sent for things to go through, but I think that would probably be in a merrier world. If I sell my car to Mr. Smith down the street, even if it was in good faith, he wouldn't have to notify me if and when he scraps it and sells it for parts. (Terrible thing to allude it to, but forgive me, I can't think of a better example).

Any 'downer who has a background in something like this? Eager minds want to know. Feel free to PM me about it, since the ruling wrights probably want to stone me for getting so off topic.

-'Vana

[ October 09, 2002: Message edited by: DaughterofVana ]

Rose Cotton · 10-09-2002, 05:30 AM

I likes those Burger King toys. I tried to collect them but I kept getting Saruman.

Okay, It's off topic but I have to ask. Has anyone been able to keep the little Burger King Frodo standing up. Cause for me it's imposible.

DarkRose · 10-09-2002, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Back when FOTR was about to come out in the theatres Burger King had glass collector mugs and little talking plastic happy-meal toys. THAT really made me a little disappointed.

Hey, I know exactly what you're talking about! I am a tiny bit abashed to say this, but I bought every light-up LOTR goblet from Burger King. Eehe. They are pretty neat! I have two of Frodo and three of Aragorn (the extras are from other people giving theirs to me), so maybe I will sell them on Ebay or something, ha.

How much would people pay for a Burger King, LOTR goblet?

arelendil · 10-10-2002, 11:30 AM

Being in England you would think the stuff easier to find seeing as tolkien wrote in England. Not so we didn't get light up goblets, or talking figure unless the button is well hidden. we got plastic figures that look nothing like the actors(except Arwen) and even these disappeared within three weeks i only got four of them! how many kids meals can you eat?

Just have to add that i totally agree with lord of the flies being rubbish and never read it!! we had to for english GCSE and while the class was arhhhing i was asleep or reading HoME for the second time! HoME is great in boring english lessons!

[ October 10, 2002: Message edited by: arelendil ]

hobbitlass · 10-10-2002, 12:05 PM

Rose cotton- I can keep Frodo standing, I actually have a number of the B.K. toys. I'm missing Sam, though. I want him. I go to yard sales and found some of the figures in the happy meal pile... but alas, no Sam.

As for merchandising, what is the big deal? Just because I have toys and calendars and the B.K. light-up glasses and... that doesn't mean I can't have an enlightened conversation about the literature. To me it's fun all the way around.

P.S. I collect the B.K. kids meal toys cause I can't afford the $15-$30 toys from TOyBiz.

[ October 10, 2002: Message edited by: hobbitlass ]

amyrlis · 10-10-2002, 12:28 PM

DaughterofVana, I don't have the facts, but I do remember reading somewhere, perhaps on this board, that Tolkien sold the movie rights for a mere $10,000 in order to pay off some taxes. Wow, it makes me sad to think of it! An insulting $10,000 for a lifetime work of genius, when many modern books written in probably 5 minutes get hundreds of thousands for their movie rights! Of course, that could have been 10,000 British Pounds, but it's still a very small amount of money.
Just need to add a defense for Lord of the Flies! I'm really surprised at the reactions here. I read it in high school and it is one of my all time favorite books!

Child of the 7th Age · 10-10-2002, 02:18 PM

It's my understanding that the estate is not getting a penny from the movie or any of the toys, books, etc. that are direct movie tie-ins. Those rights were sold long ago.

However, they are still getting money from the sale of all Tolkien's books. And from those items which are spin-offs from the book (not the movie).

The arrrangements for the books were structured in such a way that the terms were quite generous. This was because Allen & Unwin thought the books wouldn't sell many copies. What a mistake! Book sales have also obviously increased because of the movie.

Allen & Unwin are, I believe, now part of Harper Collins.

sharon

Samwise · 10-10-2002, 04:21 PM

One of the "parodies" that really disgusted me was "Lard of the Rings". [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] Yuck.

Morgul Queen · 10-10-2002, 09:20 PM

has anyone else heard of "the lord of the burger ring: the cornchip of the burger ring"
like the WN version that is really strange

Samwise · 10-10-2002, 09:29 PM

Quote:

like the WN version that is really strange

WN?

Susan Delgado · 10-10-2002, 11:15 PM

What really disgusts me (and this isn't just LOtR; it can apply to any movie made from a book) is when they base a movie off a book and then call the reprints of that book a "movie-tie-in" WHAT???

DaughterofVana · 10-11-2002, 01:11 AM

Thanks for your insights, everyone!! My eager mind is sated. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] With the Estate getting royalties just from the book sales, it gives me ever the more reason to cash in my paperbacks and by hardcovers! I shall do anything to help the cause. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] Though what about the books with "movie" covers? What catagory would they fall under? Anyone venture a guess?

-'Vana

DaughterofVana · 10-11-2002, 01:14 AM

DarkRose, I'll give you 50 cents! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
LOL

-'Vana

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 10-11-2002, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Maybe it was referring to the Lord of the Flies? (another book wich is very very dumb, don't ever ever read it if you can help it) I think that Bored of the Rings is worse then that

Presumably you mean William Golding's acclaimed exploration of the darkness of the human spirit. I quite enjoyed it myself, but I enjoyed Bored of the Rings too, so I must just have a taste for stupid books.

The obvious reference is to Golding, but it's inevitable that this sort of thing will be done to LoTR as well. It's probably best to find amusement in some hidden meaning that the advertiser didn't see. In the novel, for example, the Lord of the Flies, a pig's head on a stick, was a symptom of a society's descent into barbarism. Do you want irony with that?

DarkRose · 10-11-2002, 06:28 PM

Quote:

DarkRose, I'll give you 50 cents!
LOL

LOL! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I am going to see how much I can get for them on Ebay. *shrug* You never know how much some people will pay for merchandise. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

Rose Cotton · 10-11-2002, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Rose cotton- I can keep Frodo standing, I actually have a number of the B.K. toys. I'm missing Sam, though. I want him. I go to yard sales and found some of the figures in the happy meal pile... but alas, no Sam.

I have Sam. I think he's the first one I got. After that I made sure the next one I got was Frodo 'cause Sam was getting lonely without his master. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] I also have:

Celeborn
Galadriel
Saruman
A Orc
The Cave Troll
Merry
Pippin
Boromir
The One Ring

I think I'm going to find the rest...someday. Maybe we could trade.

ilon · 10-12-2002, 03:32 AM

After the movie came out, prints of the book have covers not like the ones before, they had pictures that looked like they were taken from the movie scenes and the faces were similar to the actors'.

Eglaladiel · 10-12-2002, 09:37 AM

I've seen that advertisment on the back of a bus. And no, its not you. I think it was kind of stupid though, I mean if it read Lord of the Rings and beside it there was a pic of onion rings, that would be funny.

Owain son of Urien · 10-12-2002, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by Squatter of Amon Rudh

Quote:

Presumably you mean William Golding's acclaimed exploration of the darkness of the human spirit. I quite enjoyed it myself

ME TOO. And it's NOT a stupid book.

10-08-2002, 05:36 PM	#1
Losthuniel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The Helcaraxë- aka Canada Posts: 261	Degrading LotR in the Name of Merchandising As i was walking home today, i saw a bus with an advertisment for New York Fries. There was a picture of some fries, anfd the caption the read: "Lord of the Fries" Is it just me or is that a LotR reference? (it may be just me...) Anyone else seen anything similar? __________________ ~* Losthuniel "Lord, what fools these mortals be!" Puck, Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream Abhorsen's House -- Lirael/Sabriel fanboard

10-08-2002, 05:45 PM	#2
NazgulNumberTen Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Crawled in a dark corner Posts: 369	lord of the fries? (hangs self with shoe laces) [ October 08, 2002: Message edited by: NazgulNumberTen ] __________________ "It's not stupid, it's advanced!" -Invader Zim

10-08-2002, 05:58 PM	#3
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	I haven't seen anything like that. Maybe it was referring to the Lord of the Flies? (another book wich is very very dumb, don't ever ever read it if you can help it) I think that Bored of the Rings is worse then that. __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

10-08-2002, 09:37 PM	#4
Tigerlily Gamgee Hostess of Spirits Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Meduseld Posts: 1,055	There can be "Lord of the anything...." without it being linked to LOTR. I mean... yes, there is Lord of the Flies(which makes more sense as a parody in this case), and there is also Lord of the Dance. The word "Lord" is not copywritten to LOTR, so other people are allowed to use it without it being directly related to LOTR. If you want to talk merchandsing then look at all of the recent releases for the movie (which I guiltily own some of). But there have been LOTR things for many years, it's just that this much attention wasn't drawn to it in the past. __________________ ~ ExerciseJunky.com (Hobbits fitness of choice!)~ ~Lady of Rohan: An Eowyn Fansite ~ ~The NEW/OLD Barrow Downs Photo Page~

10-08-2002, 10:16 PM	#5
DaughterofVana Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: twirling contentedly in a flower-filled field Posts: 134	Back when FOTR was about to come out in the theatres Burger King had glass collector mugs and little talking plastic happy-meal toys. THAT really made me a little disappointed. Sorry, going off-topic, but not too much, hopefully: When the Powers that Be that control the late Tolkien's estate sold the movie rights to PJ, did they sell marketing rights as well to Weta films or whoever is producing the trilogy? I'm just wondering how the Tolkien people (for lack of a better title) would have okay'd that. I always thought that they were pretty discreet on who uses the Tolkien(r) name. Anybody know? -'Vana __________________ "There is a kind of happiness and wonder that makes you serious. It is too good to waste on jokes." Hi! Did you miss me?

10-08-2002, 11:06 PM	#6
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	Lord of the Fries is also a weird card game which has been a fixture on (at least two) college campuses since before LOTR even started filming, so I think it's more a joke on the phrase "Lord of the Flies" than anything. As for merchandising in general, I can't really get too upset about it. I don't buy it, but if some people want to buy it and other people are willing to sell it, it's no skin off my nose. DaughterofVana, I might be wrong about this but I think Tolkien actually sold the movie rights in the late sixties (there were a few interesting letters from him regarding one script he had seen which apparently changed EVERYTHING and made the Eagles come to the rescue approximately every twenty minutes). I'm not sure what the status of the rights have been since then, but I get the feeling that they were being sold from studio to studio, so to speak, and that the Tolkien family had no say over it. Certainly it's hard to imagine Christopher Tolkien ever letting ANYONE take a crack at filming the books while he was alive. And while I wasn't around in the late sixties, I doubt that movies were merchandised in the same way or that it was even really a concept ("2001: The Happy Meal"). So the Tolkien family wouldn't have had anything to do with that part of it, though it's easy to imagine them being annoyed. __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

10-08-2002, 11:29 PM	#7
DaughterofVana Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: twirling contentedly in a flower-filled field Posts: 134	Now that you say something, I DO remember reading somewhere that Tolkien did some merchandising of his books right before his death, and that some of it included movie rights. So the "studio to studio" thing could be very possible. I have no idea how those things work, being only a meager college student and unwise in the ways of the world. It seems plausible that if and when rights change hands that the third party (IE, Tolkien Estate) has to be notified and their blessings sent for things to go through, but I think that would probably be in a merrier world. If I sell my car to Mr. Smith down the street, even if it was in good faith, he wouldn't have to notify me if and when he scraps it and sells it for parts. (Terrible thing to allude it to, but forgive me, I can't think of a better example). Any 'downer who has a background in something like this? Eager minds want to know. Feel free to PM me about it, since the ruling wrights probably want to stone me for getting so off topic. -'Vana [ October 09, 2002: Message edited by: DaughterofVana ] __________________ "There is a kind of happiness and wonder that makes you serious. It is too good to waste on jokes." Hi! Did you miss me?

10-09-2002, 05:30 AM	#8
Rose Cotton Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: A place worse then Mordor........School! Posts: 1,075	I likes those Burger King toys. I tried to collect them but I kept getting Saruman. Okay, It's off topic but I have to ask. Has anyone been able to keep the little Burger King Frodo standing up. Cause for me it's imposible. __________________ "There's nothing you can do, Harry... nothing... he's gone."-Remus Lupin "The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm."-Pippin (now how can you argue with that logic?)

10-10-2002, 11:30 AM	#10
arelendil Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Eryn Lasgalen Posts: 202	Being in England you would think the stuff easier to find seeing as tolkien wrote in England. Not so we didn't get light up goblets, or talking figure unless the button is well hidden. we got plastic figures that look nothing like the actors(except Arwen) and even these disappeared within three weeks i only got four of them! how many kids meals can you eat? Just have to add that i totally agree with lord of the flies being rubbish and never read it!! we had to for english GCSE and while the class was arhhhing i was asleep or reading HoME for the second time! HoME is great in boring english lessons! [ October 10, 2002: Message edited by: arelendil ] __________________ Nai Vardo eleni ilye lumenn' enomentielvo siluvar!

10-10-2002, 12:05 PM	#11
hobbitlass Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: next to the fire keeping warm Posts: 471	Rose cotton- I can keep Frodo standing, I actually have a number of the B.K. toys. I'm missing Sam, though. I want him. I go to yard sales and found some of the figures in the happy meal pile... but alas, no Sam. As for merchandising, what is the big deal? Just because I have toys and calendars and the B.K. light-up glasses and... that doesn't mean I can't have an enlightened conversation about the literature. To me it's fun all the way around. P.S. I collect the B.K. kids meal toys cause I can't afford the $15-$30 toys from TOyBiz. [ October 10, 2002: Message edited by: hobbitlass ] __________________ Just because a person has the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.

10-10-2002, 12:28 PM	#12
amyrlis Wight Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Helcaraxe Posts: 210	DaughterofVana, I don't have the facts, but I do remember reading somewhere, perhaps on this board, that Tolkien sold the movie rights for a mere $10,000 in order to pay off some taxes. Wow, it makes me sad to think of it! An insulting $10,000 for a lifetime work of genius, when many modern books written in probably 5 minutes get hundreds of thousands for their movie rights! Of course, that could have been 10,000 British Pounds, but it's still a very small amount of money. Just need to add a defense for Lord of the Flies! I'm really surprised at the reactions here. I read it in high school and it is one of my all time favorite books! __________________ "Pull the blinders from my eyes, let me see these endless skies And drown here where I stand in the beauty of the land."

10-10-2002, 02:18 PM	#13
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	It's my understanding that the estate is not getting a penny from the movie or any of the toys, books, etc. that are direct movie tie-ins. Those rights were sold long ago. However, they are still getting money from the sale of all Tolkien's books. And from those items which are spin-offs from the book (not the movie). The arrrangements for the books were structured in such a way that the terms were quite generous. This was because Allen & Unwin thought the books wouldn't sell many copies. What a mistake! Book sales have also obviously increased because of the movie. Allen & Unwin are, I believe, now part of Harper Collins. sharon __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

10-10-2002, 04:21 PM	#14
Samwise Faithful Spirit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: #3 Bagshot Row, Petaluma, Ca Posts: 2,299	One of the "parodies" that really disgusted me was "Lard of the Rings". [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] Yuck. __________________ Giving thanks unto the Father...In whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins.~Colossians1:12a,14 * * * * * * * I am Samwise son of Hamfast, if by hoe or trowel I can get these weeds out of your garden, I will.You have my shears!;)

10-10-2002, 09:20 PM	#15
Morgul Queen Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dontgonearthe Castle Posts: 414	has anyone else heard of "the lord of the burger ring: the cornchip of the burger ring" like the WN version that is really strange __________________ Athrabeth is still doing the wave for Boromir the Disco-King Oh...and call me Morgy!

10-10-2002, 11:15 PM	#17
Susan Delgado The Perished Flame Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: behind my eyes Posts: 1,096	What really disgusts me (and this isn't just LOtR; it can apply to any movie made from a book) is when they base a movie off a book and then call the reprints of that book a "movie-tie-in" WHAT??? __________________ "Man as a whole, Man pitted against the universe, have we seen him at all 'til we see that he is like a hero in a fairy tale?"

10-11-2002, 01:11 AM	#18
DaughterofVana Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: twirling contentedly in a flower-filled field Posts: 134	Thanks for your insights, everyone!! My eager mind is sated. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] With the Estate getting royalties just from the book sales, it gives me ever the more reason to cash in my paperbacks and by hardcovers! I shall do anything to help the cause. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] Though what about the books with "movie" covers? What catagory would they fall under? Anyone venture a guess? -'Vana __________________ "There is a kind of happiness and wonder that makes you serious. It is too good to waste on jokes." Hi! Did you miss me?

10-11-2002, 01:14 AM	#19
DaughterofVana Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: twirling contentedly in a flower-filled field Posts: 134	DarkRose, I'll give you 50 cents! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] LOL -'Vana __________________ "There is a kind of happiness and wonder that makes you serious. It is too good to waste on jokes." Hi! Did you miss me?

10-12-2002, 03:32 AM	#23
ilon Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: lothlorien Posts: 31	After the movie came out, prints of the book have covers not like the ones before, they had pictures that looked like they were taken from the movie scenes and the faces were similar to the actors'. __________________ "Not all those who wander are lost."

10-12-2002, 09:37 AM	#24
Eglaladiel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Rivendell... Posts: 55	I've seen that advertisment on the back of a bus. And no, its not you. I think it was kind of stupid though, I mean if it read Lord of the Rings and beside it there was a pic of onion rings, that would be funny. __________________ <3 -R.I.P. Padfoot (sniffle, sniffle)