The Middle Earth Popularity Cup

[the phantom]

Hmmm...

I think I'll have to go with Luthien on this one. Galadriel is a worthy champion, but I just don't like her much. The whole business with the Ring- for someone who is supposed to be wise and has been around since the first age, she seems too easily tempted into believing that she could actually use the Ring to overthrow Sauron. I don't recall Elrond, for instance, being tempted so strongly, despite Tolkien stating that he would've had a better shot at actually pulling it off.

In addition, she allows her Elven Ring to be spotted by Frodo (flaunting it, it seems to me). Gandalf and Elrond both hid theirs much better.

And how can you argue with the one person who has actually changed the mind of Mandos, and sung Melkor to sleep? I don't imagine she'll win this contest, but I shall support-

++Luthien

[mormegil]

++Galadriel

She just seems more 'real' than Luthien although this battle fo the heavy hitting females is difficult.

[Andsigil]

++Galadriel. I've always had a thing for older women.

[Morthoron]

Hmmm...tough one.

I like both characters, but Luthien was hotter , and took on both Sauron and Morgoth face-to-face . The girl's got guts and glamor, glorious!

++Luthien

[Thinlómien]

What kind of question is this? A whimsical girl who achieved most of her great deeds with her looks, or a strong-willed woman who achieved her success with her wisdom?

++Galadriel

And furthermore, I must say that for me, her story is more touching and more sad than Lúthien's.

Aieeeeeeeeeeeee I kind of hope Galadriel doesn't get through, though. Because, otherwise I have to start choosing between her, Maedhros and Gandalf, my three favourites, which is going to kill me... And there's Boromir too? I'm just glad we don't have Finrod, Haleth, Théoden or Gildor here and that Merry didn't make it through the first round...

[Lalwendë]

++Galadriel.

In the case of which was more gorgeous, Galadriel certainly had more admirers. But this shouldn't be about that - and Galadriel made much more use of not only her looks but her talents. Nor was she embroiled in a quest ostensibly just to get her dad to accept her punk boyfriend, she was nation-building. And the way she handles her many admirers is impressive. She's Goddess-like.

[Nerwen]

Well, obviously I'm going to vote

++Galadriel.

[A Little Green]

++ Galadriel

No question. Just looking at her motives and Lúthien's for doing their great deeds, so to say. Besides, Lúthien's story is lovely but her personality is too much the basic beautiful, mysterious and gentle-hearted woman that tends to annoy me.

[skip spence]

Lúthien is in conception more like an Elf in a traditional sense: a youthful, magical creature dancing in a forest glade, beautiful and illusive; you call out and *poff* she's gone. The story of Beren and Lúthien is also more like a traditional fairy-tale I suppose which doesn't fit seamlessly into the more serious Silmarillion. I really enjoyed the story in Lost Tales (those cats were well cool) and Lúthien is at her best here. This is a vote for Tinúviel:

++Lúthien

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

What kind of a question is that?

++Galadriel

EDIT: Eeek. I am scared. I did not read anything from this thread (only seeing the boldened "++Galadriel" and "++Lúthien" words there) before I posted...

[skip spence]

It promised to be a real cat fight but Lúthien didn't have the claws to resist Galadriel who wins 10-4.


Match 7 of Round 2:
These two need no introduction. Without further ado it's:

Aragorn vs. Samwise Gamgee

[Gollum the Great]

Aragorn?.... or Sam? Aragorn?.... or Samwise?.... Descendant of Kings?.... or a hobbit? Weeell, I always liked them both, both have a sort of quiet, retiring disposition, not thrilled by becoming big or popular. But...

++Sam

...because Aragorn already knew how to be a hero and Sam had pick it up as he went along.

[Aganzir]

++Sam

No specific reasons, except that I just like him more.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I see the second-round matches are all either perfectly clear without any doubt, as I just love one of the characters (Saruman, Galadriel) or they are totally unclear because I don't like either of the characters that much (that Maedhros thing, or this one). But, thinking of what I said back then during the first round, I will vote

++Aragorn

although I am inclined to believe that if I were in a different mood (after reading the second half of the Two Towers, for example), I would have voted for Sam.

They are both nice, nevertheless - just not that brilliant.

P.S.

Originally Posted by Gollum

...because Aragorn already knew how to be a hero and Sam had pick it up as he went along.

Actually, Aragorn didn't know, and that's exactly why I voted him in both rounds. I just realised this a while ago and I started to like a lot his uncertainity by Rauros and overall during the course of the journey, after Gandalf's death especially, too.

[Thinlómien]

++Aragorn

He has a better sense of humour, for starters.

[Ilya]

Oh, this is a hard one. I like them both.

++Sam

I just can't not vote for him.

[Strongbow]

++Aragorn

Because he has more names, and this is something I can admire.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

++Aragorn

Because all his "Lo!" and "Behold!"s make me laugh. And other reasons.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Gollum the Great

...because Aragorn already knew how to be a hero and Sam had pick it up as he went along.

I'd disagree slightly on this matter. For isn't it one of the central themes with Aragorn that he has to learn to accept his inheritance and to claim the kingship with not only his deeds but with his identity, that he has to learn himself to become what he is? And it doesn't go that easily - just like it's not easy for Sam to take the decisions and hold the fate in his hands in Mordor? So aren't these two as well so alike on some things?

I'd like to abstain from voting with this one as neither of them are my absolute favourites but I tend to like them both in different ways.

If I'd be on for a night of drinking beer and merriment I'd choose Sam as my company but if I'd wish to discuss the grand issues of this world with a jug of wine I'd choose Aragorn...

Darn hard one.

++ Aragorn

It could have gone the other way as well...

[mormegil]

Aragorn doesn't shower, he really doesn't do much. The crown is handed to him through no real effort of his own. Simply put, by having such a company selected for him he was made 'great'.

Sam on the other hand is the best. He is noble, brave and courageous.

++Sam

Seriously, we cannot let Same lose.

[Lalwendë]

I really and honestly cannot choose here on any substantive grounds. When I was younger I'd have chosen Aragorn without a moment's thought, but as I've got older I've come to see just how important, and what a thoroughly wonderful, character Samwise is.

So I'm simply going to choose for the one who I perceive to be the underdog and go:

++Sam

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by mormegil

Aragorn doesn't shower, he really doesn't do much. The crown is handed to him through no real effort of his own. Simply put, by having such a company selected for him he was made 'great'.

Are you serious? I can't believe what an insult you gave to Aragorn. He was one of the highlights of Gandalf's ultimate plan to bring peace back into Arda and to unite it's people. Everything about Aragorn is truly kingly. One of the truly remarkable parts of 'The Return of the King' is when Aragorn actually has to sneak into Minas Tirith to save Merry and Eowyn's lives, all because of his respect for the cities people and his humility. That is a true king!

++Aragorn

[Morthoron]

Aragorn had a lot more going for him than the run-of-mill fellow from Middle-earth: an incredible pedigree, protection and education from the Elves, and support from a woman (an Elvish one) who loved him. No one can doubt his bravery in battle, compassion in dealing with those lesser than him and his ability to lead men. One could say it was in his upbringing.

Sam? He was a gardner and lucky enough to learn his letters. Yet through perseverance and loyalty he managed to guide the most dangerous object in the world to the most dangerous place in the world, half-carrying his master most of the way, fighting a monstrous spider solo, and giving up the Ring out of friendship.

++Sam

[Tuor in Gondolin]

While it's close, aand it's tempting to go with the
Elfstone, Sam won repeeated elections whereas
Aragorn was "elected" only once and that by a hardly secret
ballot, so a vote goes to Rosie's significant other
+ + Samwise .

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Are you serious? I can't believe what an insult you gave to Aragorn. He was one of the highlights of Gandalf's ultimate plan to bring peace back into Arda and to unite it's people.

Exactly, all he was is a pawn to Gandalf. Aragorn was given everything and almost botched it anyway.

Sneaking in is more like a thief than a king says I.

[Andsigil]

++Aragorn

Because if I had to make a choice, I'd rather be Aragorn than Samwise.

[skip spence]

Sneaking in is more like a thief than a king says I.

Don't say 'sneaking'! It only reminds me of He who isn't here.

I'll make this brief as I'm about to go to work.

++Sam

He is truly a character.

[Nerwen]

Don't belittle Aragorn, people. He's cool, especially in the first book.

All the same I think I'll vote for the brave and loyal

++Samwise the Stouthearted.

It''s just not fair to have all the vertically-challenged characters eliminated from the contest.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by mormegil

Exactly, all he was is a pawn to Gandalf. Aragorn was given everything and almost botched it anyway.

Then wouldn't Sam also be considered a pawn that Gandalf used? That type of logic is could be used both ways.

By the way, what do you mean Aragorn was given everything? He started with nothing, he fought for his throne and right to rule. I don't see why you have to try and downgrade some Tolkien's characters just because you don't have anything good to say about the character you voted for! Both of them are amazing characters who deserve to win, but perhaps you should remember the old adage: if you don't have anything good to say don't say anything at all!

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

By the way, what do you mean Aragorn was given everything? He started with nothing, he fought for his throne and right to rule.

Hmmm...we seem to have people posting at opposite poles here (I guess that makes the forum bi-polar). Aragorn certainly did not start with 'nothing', he was the chieftain of the Dunedain, leader of his clan, and he was treated like a prince in exile in Imladris. That 'Oh woe is me, I am a friendless drifter' Aragorn is from the movies, not from the books. But from the opposite viewpoint, Aragorn was not handed everything, nor was he merely Gandalf's lackey. He did indeed 'earn' the right to be King.

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

I don't see why you have to try and downgrade some Tolkien's characters just because you don't have anything good to say about the character you voted for! Both of them are amazing characters who deserve to win, but perhaps you should remember the old adage: if you don't have anything good to say don't say anything at all!

People can say whatever they like. People can despise certain characters, and they can love other characters. We may not agree -- so what?

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Andsigil

Because if I had to make a choice, I'd rather be Aragorn than Samwise.

Not into birds with hairy feet, eh?

This contest was very tight. Sam took the early lead but Aragorn came back with a vengeance and had the upper hand for a while. Sam the brave-hearted hung in there though and managed to get enough late votes to win and send Aragorn packing by the score of 9 to 7.

Match 8 of Round 1:
In this final match of the second round Túrin Turambar, who just managed to defeat Gimli in the first round, faces Beorn, who caused an upset by knocking out Faramir. Which one of these Orc-slayers deserve a berth in the quarter-finals?

Túrin Turambar vs. Beorn

[Morthoron]

Well, I really don't care one way or another for either character, really. But I suppose Beorn isn't as reprehensible as Turin, who is a walking psychological case-study for any number of syndromes and manias.

++Beorn

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Hmmm...we seem to have people posting at opposite poles here (I guess that makes the forum bi-polar). Aragorn certainly did not start with 'nothing', he was the chieftain of the Dunedain, leader of his clan, and he was treated like a prince in exile in Imladris.

The leadership of a clan of exiles in order to defend people who have forgotten you and treat you with distrust is more like a responsibility than an honor. Also, it was only right that he should be treated as royalty since Aragorn is royalty, but once again, he's earned that through his wisdom and prowess as a fighter.

As to this match between Beorn and Turin, I would have to vote for Turin. Beorn is nice and simple, but I really like The Children of Hurin and Turin's adventures. Especially how everything ends in ruin for him and his sister, not to mention his Hurin and Morwen, it is absolutely heartbreaking.

++Turin

[Aganzir]

++Beorn

Bears, honeycakes, house in the forest, tame animal buddies.

[Gollum the Great]

++Turin

[Thinlómien]

++Beorn

No trace of self-pity in that guy - granted, his fate was kinder, too.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Beorn is nice, but... Túrin, especially since CoH, is really far more complex character.

++Túrin

And funny, as I really did not like him or his tale when I read the Sil for the first time...

[Tuor in Gondolin]

As Morgoth was overheard to opine to Sauron:
"You can't do business with that hothead Sonny (ah,
I mean Turin)". Now if only the Blacksword had had
the self control of Michael (oops, that is) of his
cousin.

+ + Beorn

[Andsigil]

Funny, I just finished reading Children of Hurin, which is like the extended version of the Turin story from The Silmarillion.

Turin's a good fighter, but he's too proud, arrogant, and stubborn for his own good. If I didn't care for him and his melodramatic antics and his total disregard for the advice of all of his friends before, I thoroughly dislike him now. In fact, if he weren't slaying orcs (his only redeeming quality), he'd be a veritable villain.

++Beorn, all the way.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

The leadership of a clan of exiles in order to defend people who have forgotten you and treat you with distrust is more like a responsibility than an honor. Also, it was only right that he should be treated as royalty since Aragorn is royalty, but once again, he's earned that through his wisdom and prowess as a fighter.

And you're certainly entitled to have that opinion, and make such assumptions, even though I don't necessarily agree with all of it. See how easy that is?

From a realistic point of view, believing one has any sense of entitlement for a throne his ancestors lost millenia previously is rather like saying you deserve to be Roman emperor because you are somehow related to Julius Caesar, even if you can prove direct father/son lineage back that far and have his sword (it reminds me of the serf saying to Arthur that watery tarts waving about scimitars is no basis for a system of government). One of the more irritating plot lines Tolkien developed as far as impingeing on one's suspension of disbelief.