Werewolf LIII: The Republic

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I like it because it is a brilliant idea and it would make me a great werewolf player.

Maybe Boro and tp suggested what you'd should do? You could have briefings every Night I mean...

Okay. I'm now off to some fairly basic and traditional WW-thing namely looking at the lynches. So far I have seen tp making steadfastly tallies about the choices for representatives but I don't remember seeing lynch-tallies.

The two might become more powerful if combined.

It will take some time though...

[the phantom]

I'm finally home... long day... posts on the way...

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Rune

It still makes his initial reaction seem odd, to run out and say "I am being framed". . . only to "seconds" later proclaim it was all part of the plan.
At the very least it was clumsy.

Well, Rune, wouldn't clumsiness indicate innocence, since as a WW he would've already known the kill in advance and had plenty of time to formulate his position and present it in the best way possible?

Originally Posted by Lommy

I think I've solved the mystery of Boro and phantom - they must be lovers.

He likes football. I like football. It was a match made in heaven.

Originally Posted by me

Now, all of this nonsense about questioning my Seer dream statements. To me, it seems as if you're asking, "You seem sure that you've been a dream already. Who is the Seer, Phantom?"

Originally Posted by Lommy

Ok, fine, well if that's why you think you've been dreamt of - alright. You may have an idea who's the seer and that s/he has dreamt of you. BUT: You cannot expect us to take your word of it and thus it's a very silly argument for your innocence.

I didn't say you had to believe me. If you are an Ordo then naturally there is no possible way you could know for sure, I agree. I am merely explaining why I cannot answer questions like that, as well as putting forth that is is possible that I have spotted something.

Originally Posted by Lommy

I cannot see any reason why the wolves would like to kill you. So don't be silly...

I'm not being silly. If I am indeed Seer dreamed Ordo, and they can't get me lynched, they'll have to Night-kill me at some point.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Lastly, I've been thinking... we shouldn't lynch tp or Boro toDay. However annoying they are. I suggest keeping an eye on them for they are acting mighty suspiciously, but I'd really rather keep them around for a while more (a Day or two) since there is nothing extremely serious against them and they will provide more and more evidence againt or for themselves as the game goes on. You may call me an elitist or a turncloak, I know - but I'd hate to lose players like them in vain. If they're innocent, they're a huge asset to the village.

That is, they would be a huge asset if they weren't such a distraction. I therefore suggest (or to phrase better, echo the earlier suggestions) that we should stop focuing on them like this. And that "we" means all of us, even the gentlemen themselves. We're assisting the wolves by this single-mindedness, especially if Boro and tp are innocent.

Extremely sensible Lommy.

As I was driving home from work, I was thinking to myself, "This entire day pretty much has been Boro and I. Most suspicions have come to revolve around us, or around people's reactions to us. Even mine have pretty much come to line up with those than seem to oppose us. So if I am lynched and found an Ordo, where the heck will the village be able to start with suspicions tomorrow, if all day today was completely Boro-tp centered? Naturally, they'll begin with reactions to the Boro-tp thing that happened the day before. Meaning that the village will still be focused on it. We really need to get past this!"

So yeah, I'm really hoping we can let this thing go soon. I'm totally with you there.

(to be continued...)

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by me

Nope. We were trying to make the kill look attractive to the Wolves.

Originally Posted by morm

My problem here is how you say 'we'. How can you and Boro actually coordiante anything unless you are discussing things and the only ones who are able to discuss is the wolves.

But since the exchange took place during the Day... even WWs can't talk then.

In addition, what is wrong with saying "we"? "We" refers to yourself and at least one other. I was trying to set her up. Boro was trying to set her up. Therefore it is perfectly correct English to say that "we" were trying to set her up. What is the problem here? Is it unacceptable to be in unison about anything?

And morm- you did read this post, yes? What do you have to say about the reasoning contained therein?

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by the phantom

And morm- you did read this post, yes? What do you have to say about the reasoning contained therein?

Yes and I was fine until this morning. I began reading with the full intent on trying to be a little more calm and rationale, however when Boro begins full on assaulting me even more I admittedly had a knee-jerk reaction and went back to my assault on him. The difficutly I am having is, the more I listen to you tummy the more I feel you are innocent. You are now stepping into that role of how I feel you are normally and that is reassuring. I am however going to keep an eye on you, but I cannot get over the Boro thing. He demands answers from me and yet does not show the courtesy of replying to my queries. He claims I skirt arond the issues, which is patently false, and then he skirts all over the place, glancing and shifting blame elsewhere....BAH I was just going to go into another diatribe of what I've previously stated today about him but if one cares they can go back and look.

I am very frustrated with him right now because of the double standard he applies. His hypocrisy knows no bounds as he targets others for the exact things he is doing. I'm frustrated with myself because I know that I've been sucked into this and put blinders on myself...I admit I started this whole Borowolf thing and I have become blind to any other possibility.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Green

I don't like your reasoning that if someone suspects you that someone has to be a wolf or someone who has fallen into a Wolf plot...

I can understand this objection. Perhaps I can explain this in such a way that makes you feel less slighted.

First, we know that the lynch mob each and every day is impacted by the choice of the WWs during the Night. One of the primary objectives of the WWs is to make a kill that will bring about a favorable result the following day. As the primary holders of information and the only group of people who has an opportunity at an unopposed kill every cycle, the WWs can be expected to be successful quite often in causing lynches to go favorably.

Their kills and their words effect us, and our thinking. And as we have no concrete information, it is expected that the WWs will successfully cause us to be wrong a lot.

I can almost guarantee you that I'm completely and totally wrong about someone right now. Multiple someones I'd bet.

So given that, my comments that Ordos have been swept up into the WW plot- there is no way that it isn't true. Every single day at least a couple innocents go the direction the WWs were hoping for. It doesn't make them dumb. It just makes them wrong for that day. I've been wrong plenty. So take no offense at my statements, please.

Originally Posted by Brin

And then when people start to suspect them, they react like, "Why are you suspecting me? You should be thanking me."

Originally Posted by me

Well if we're telling the truth, then it's true, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Green

So what you mean is that if you yourself know you are innocent then everyone else should automatically assume so too and not suspect you at all? I don't get this logic, honestly.

Erm, I'm not sure where you're getting that, Green.

Brin makes her statement and gives a paraphrasing, and then I simply point out that there is nothing at all suspicious about the paraphrased statement, for it is the exact statement that could be made were Boro and I innocent. Therefore what point was she trying to make? I was questioning her, and how her statement could possibly mean anything bad about me, or paint me in a negative light, since all that it was was a true statement.

I'm not sure what you're saying about expecting others to assume I'm innocent. That had nothing to do with my statement at all.

[A Little Green]

Hello I'm here. I'll make a sweet little (green) list.

I'M UNEASY ABOUT:
Boro & phantom - I think I have stated earlier why I am uneasy about him. The same goes for phantom. I think it's been more phantom who's doing it but complaining about why they are getting all the attention seems really too much. You can't really expect that the village will pay no extra attention to guys behaving the way you two have done. I might suggest lynching one of the two - preferably phantom, I find him more suspicious than Boro - just to be clear.

Originally Posted by phantom

So if I am lynched and found an Ordo, where the heck will the village be able to start with suspicions tomorrow, if all day today was completely Boro-tp centered? Naturally, they'll begin with reactions to the Boro-tp thing that happened the day before. Meaning that the village will still be focused on it. We really need to get past this!

Yes, might be - but how does it change if both of you are alive? In that case, we still have much to go on with except for this issue, and in addition we still have the problem of not knowing where you two stand. At least I am being horribly distracted of thinking anything else at the moment, and I'm quite convinced it won't change if we won't get to know the truth. If you're innocent I don't think the wolves will kill you, you are too useful for them by causing all this mess.

Nogrod - Still hasn't answered the question I have asked something like three times? So I ask again: why did you give a third rep vote to a Boro you didn't trust when he was already through anyway? Nog's been more innocentish toDay than before, but I'm still uneasy about him.

I'M TORN ABOUT:
Ilya & Nerwen - No, I'm not pairing them up as though I saw a suspicious connection between them or anything - I'm pairing them up because my reaction to both of them is pretty much confused. I get both innocent and suspicious vibes from both. I'll look at them when I have the time (which certainly isn't now). For now I'll leave them be.

I'M NOT UNEASY ABOUT:
Brinniel - Nothing new.
Lommy - Nothing new.
Kath - Nothing new.
morm - Nothing new.
Runey - Nothing new.
Sally - Nothing new.
Shasta - Nothing new.

I HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT:
Gil-Galad - He's annoying me with his absence.
Gwathie - He deserves to be called Gwathie though he hates the nickname. I need more substance.
The Ka - Has posted more toDay and I'm glad to see it; but there is still too little to go on with there, I fear.

I could vote toDay (in no particular order):
phantom
Boro
Nog
Gil
Gwath

I will certainly not vote toDay:
Anyone on my "Not uneasy about" -list.

I'll vote soon. Any thoughts from my fellow reps? Who do you think of voting?


EDIT: x-ed with phantom, morm and phantom

[Boromir88]

First, let me say I want that picture taken down immediately! To think I just told Hookbill how much I loved his latest P & A cartoon, now he's holding pictures of me that I wanted burned years ago!

What it means is that I found it odd that you were so vehemently against me and then all of the sudden you back off all nice and neat. It was odd and I felt it important to point it out.~morm

I didn't back off, I came after you with a barage, you said it was a "grand" case. I'm telling you that yesterday my attack against you was designed to get reactions from other villagers. It wasn't a random lashback against whoever suspected me (or haven't you noticed that I still feel Greenie is quite innocent eventhough she has suspected me?) I had my case against you already laid out, but didn't come forward with it until today. You see, it would be far too easy for a wolf to bandwagon onto the posts against you I made today. My attack yesterday was designed to look like an aggressive retort to judge other people.

For my reasons just read posts 1052 and 1059.

As a summary, you're playing cautiously. I don't like your suspicions against Ilya, Nerwen, or the phantom. It's not because I don't agree with you, it's your suspicions are simple, easy, and safe. They're all easy lynch targets, one's a new player that you try to some how tie to Legate, if Legate is a wolf. Funny enough Legate wasn't a wolf and you still try to tie her to being a safe, new wolf. You said the same thing about Nerwen, and added that she made a gaffe about the ranger. That could be true, but it's still a safe choice for a wolf..."Look I thought she was playing ignorant? I didn't know." And I explained perfectly why Nerwen does not need to be ignorant to look innocent. Pick any one of vague surface reasons to suspect the phantom...he's a jerk, he knows too much because he trusts Boro, he's peppier than normal, he's got somethign to hide. Whatever it is, it's so vague you can pick an argument like that about anyone and people can find a reason to agree with it..."Wow, morm's right, you know tp is arrogant." It's still a shallow, surface accusation that doesn't answer well how does that make tp a wolf?

You responded to one thing and threw out some sort of statistic to those posts, that's hardly blowing it out of the water.

Then you assumed that since I also was going after Rune, that somehow I had backed off you, when I never said anything of the sort. What I can't make a statement against two people? It was you who tried to get my focus on Rune, and hence my reply that it wasn't going to work.

If Boro and tp are wolves something like that would be their only chance of avoiding the seer's eyes.~Nogrod

That post has to be some of the biggest balogna, bologna, baloney, whatever it is I've seen. That's hilarious, you just rewrite the exact scenario that took place between tp and me, and concluded that's the only way we could avoid the seer detection, by playing this way. Now there's a shocker...wow.

[the phantom]

In browsing Boro's posts, I do see what you mean morm. I can understand your frustration.

But here's the thing- I think Boro is partly like this because he's feeling the noose closing. The more pressure you keep him under, the more he's going to act like this. At least if he's anything like me.

If you want to see me thrash around and be hard-headed and abrasive etc, just put me under a lot of pressure. As a WW I'd actually probably handle it better and deflect it. In addition I'd have pals to start discussions about things other than myself. As an Ordo though, I'd get desperate. Frankly, Boro is irritating me slightly with his play as of late, primarily due to the fact that I have been so willing to tie my ship to him. I don't want to be taken down with him. But at the same time his behavior makes me think him more innocent the more he does it. Maybe it's not the behavior that we'd like to see, but he is who he is. And who I think he is, is an Ordo.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by phantom

Erm, I'm not sure where you're getting that, Green.

Brin makes her statement and gives a paraphrasing, and then I simply point out that there is nothing at all suspicious about the paraphrased statement, for it is the exact statement that could be made were Boro and I innocent. Therefore what point was she trying to make? I was questioning her, and how her statement could possibly mean anything bad about me, or paint me in a negative light, since all that it was was a true statement.

I'm not sure what you're saying about expecting others to assume I'm innocent. That had nothing to do with my statement at all.

Ah. I read your statement as "If I'm innocent, then no one should suspect me and instead thank me of all the good I have done." I don't know how to better explain it, but it looked to me like you were saying that if you are innocent like you claim you are, people should not be allowed to suspect you at all but instead should be thanking you for your services to the village. Do I make any sense at all? Gah, this is what you get when not having English as your first language - I really can't explain better. Annoying.

I'll let Lommy in very very soon and don't know whether I'll vote before or after she has posted...


EDIT: x-ed with phantom

[Boromir88]

While I agree that the Seer is very important, I really have to question this. Don't you think the village has any importance at all?~Greenie

I thought I also said everyone has a part to play? Anyway, the basic thing I was trying to say is my plans are all an attempt to get the seer as many dreams as possible because that is how we'll win. Yes, everyone is needed, some prefer to look at votes, come to conclusions, others like to go based on a lot of feeling...and etc. I don't play conservatively, I may be a distraction right now, if you want to lynch me for that go ahead. But, I'm telling you what I'm doing, now take it or leave it.

[the phantom]

Oh, so you interpretted the quote differently, Green? Well, I think Nog didn't like that quote either earlier today, so perhaps my wording wasn't well selected. Sorry.

And I see that both Sally and Nog have stated that they want to move on from this.

Excellent.

Er... now what do we talk about?

[Nogrod]

I just saw this...

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Nogrod - Still hasn't answered the question I have asked something like three times? So I ask again: why did you give a third rep vote to a Boro you didn't trust when he was already through anyway? Nog's been more innocentish toDay than before, but I'm still uneasy about him.

Originally Posted by me on #594 eg. the votepost

Anyway, I'm giving Boro a third vote even if parts of toDay are just black areas to me as I had no time to read them all. I'll try to catch up tomorrow as it's now 3AM here... Happily we have these 48 hour-Days!

But I really want to see what Boro does with the power invested on him on that scale... even if it narrows down the number of the representatives.
(Think of the game balance indeed! Seven "two-voters" are the happiest place for the wolves qualified... after not being a representative in the first place, that is)

I don't trust him at all at this moment but I want to check his cards whatever it leads to.

Okay?

We were able to afford that. Even if I'm not sure it was of any good as he did cast a meaningless vote as the last one... So not too much infop on that on retrospect.

But there's a lot on Boro afterwards!


I'm working on my summary-post. It will take some time still but I'm making it.

[mormegil]

Boro, I'm done man. I think you and I are two stubborn mules going at it. It's more aggrivating than it's worth.

Green, if I don't vote for Boro which I may consider giving him a reprieve based on what phantom has been explaining...I am trying to calm down and look at the whole picture. However, there is no way I can go through the whole thread again so I'm left to some degree with my gut. Anyway if not Boro I'm really not sure who to go for. I've turned all my attention exclusively to Boro, for better or worse. I would like to get a closer look at some others but I doubt that will happen now. Honestly I'd be fairly content with Gil. I'm fairly certain he is not a wolf but on the other hand he has done nothing to deserve being here. However, that would be foolish to vote him off if nothing more he is a number to our side that could prove the difference between victory and death.

If I were to randomize my pick we would have about a 25% of being correct. I went here and it generated a 12 which based on the list would be Rune so I could vote for him and imagine what 'ammo' that would give Boro.

But really the ones that stick out to me most are Boro, Ilya, Nerwen and Nogrod. Tummy does but to a much lesser degree than previously.

[Nogrod]

tp wanted something to discuss?

Okay, here are the actual lynch-votes with the stated reasons for those still living.

Day1. Legate 180 – Day
Aganzir -> Legate (2)
Nogrod -> Gwath (2) (for trying to make me ignore him from the category I would most likely pick my choice by voting me as a rep)
Legate -> Eonwë (2)
Brinn -> Legate (4 – 6 more to come) (other candidates: McCaber and The Ka but not spreading the vote)
Boro -> Legate (6 – 4 more to come, eg. the decisive vote) (Eonwë’s death would not inform us but Legate’s or Agan’s might)
Ilya -> Legate (8) (Boro’s right, that might tell us something – even if not satisfied with the vote)
Tp -> Shasta (2) (self-claimed “throwaway vote”)

Day2. Eonwë changing his posting style – Day
Kath -> Eonwë (2) (on feeling; Greenie and Gwath being other possibilities)
Morm -> Nerwen (2) (she’s playing very smart, fairly confident on his vote; also suspecting Nogrod and Ilya)
Agan -> Nerwen (4 – 8 more to come)
Lommy -> Eonwë (5 – 5 more to come, including Nerwen’s 2, eg. the decisive vote) (There’s something fishy about Eonwë, don’t wish Nerwen to go just randomly)
Nerwen -> Eonwë (7) (naturally…)
Boro -> Eonwë (10) (“For formality”)

That's the factual information then.

If I have represented anyone's reasons for your votes as reps wrongly please let me know. I didn't obviously read all the thread through but tried to catch those reasons to your votes from your vote-posts or a few posts back.

The next stop; the reasons given for the reps (and that is the thing that takes time - I've finished Day1 but will still have to make a take on Day2).

But feel free to start looking at these.


EDIT: Added bolding to the representatives who voted to make it easier to read...

[mormegil]

Well it's good to see that Boro's record is above reproach just don't bring it up otherwise he won't like it.

[Boromir88]

Well it's good to see that Boro's record is above reproach just don't bring it up otherwise he won't like it.~morm

Very classy to take a swipe after saying you were walking away.

[Boromir88]

I wonder what the elementary kids are going to think when I go in to a school to read to them in an hour...and they hear ole Boro mumbling about werewolves...

[Nogrod]

I'm giving you these votes for representatives right now for Day1 as well. The same rules apply but here I have tried to use the actual quotes (which are in "brackets")


Day1

Agan -> Brinn
Greenie -> Brinn (2)
(“because she is a good sensible player, seems innocent, and has already received one vote so is certainly through”)
Lommy -> Ilya
(“Because I really want to know her better, and I would also welcome some fresh views in the final debates”)
Kath -> Lommy
(“She strikes me as pretty trustworthy at the moment and I also think she'll hold to her own opinion even if the other Reps are pretty strongwilled, and on Day 1 I think that's good”)
The Ka -> Boro
(“I've always liked Boro88's level of common sense, even if it's not exactly how I or whom I trust as innocent see the situation. Plus, I agree with his point of action on that representatives are not going to morph into something completely different just because they have their own playing field later on”)
Morm -> Nogrod
(Boro, Diamond and Nog. I haven't read anything from any of them. Boro has burned my trust in the past, but he's also saved me...Nogrod is intense as is Diamond and all are very thoughtful and analytical… Boro already has a vote and I presume will get another. I would be comfortable having both Nog and Boro as reps. Sorry Diamond, I have a longer history with Nog so he won out)
Nogrod -> Ilya (2)
(I'm tempted to make Ilya our second representative right now with a second vote. I think she might be one we should see there. I mean even if she is an old sport around here she's quite unknown to us later-comers in here and I really would like to see what she does - and looking at her last post just made me a bit more confident about her … I was a bit torn between Ilya and Lommy as my choices but I will be sticking to my curiousity this Day)
Eonwë -> Greenie
Gwath -> Nogrod (2)
(“I think he'd do a good job of keeping the quiet players on their toes, making the ranks of the sub-reindeer-sitters a less than safe place for a wolf to hide. This, at any rate, is my hope”)
Legate -> tp
(“if there is any really good time in the game to vote tp, it would be possibly now. Later, if I were unsure, I would pick less... hmm... eccentric people. Now I am only maybe somewhat not entirely sure about where tp's suspicions would be going (says the one who said it does not make any difference... apparently, this game is full of switches on my part)”)
Shasta -> Aganzir
(“I should probably vote now, just on the off chance that rehearsal runs long. So without further ado...” Not much else I did find.)
Sally -> Legate
(My original rep choice was going to be Noggie, followed by Phantom, Agan, and Legate in no particular order. Noggie's already got his two required rep points, and I know that Phantom will be paying attention to the game (too much, if anything, heh) so he'd be a good choice too. However, my vote goes to.... [Legate] … I feel fairly comfortable with my choice”)
Ilya -> Boro (2)
(“Even though I'm still not quite sure about him, his logic is sound and his points all seem worth consideration”)
Brinn -> Aganzir (2)
(“Because unlike Shasta, she has one vote and I continue to think we'd be better off with more reps than less”)
tp -> Legate (2)
(“Legate would be a diplomatic choice as he voted for me”)
Boro -> tp (2)
(“Greenie won't be as active as the phantom, but I know won't be silent. Also, the phantom has made clear he would still be active in an "advisory" role if need be”)

[Thinlómien]

I'm extremely annoyed at the moment because of outside-ww reasons (our apartment is to be renovated and the very thought of the noise makes me want to strangle someone, and also, MSN messenger just failed me and it also makes me feel like I could do something violent), so this silly ww is making me rather frustrated too. Please people could you talk about something else then Boro and tp?! *glares angrily at the gentlemen themselves, morm and Greenie* If you continue that talk, I will vote one of you out of sheer annoyance.

I'm letting Greenie vote now but then I'll be back to comment stuff that has happened while I've been away.


edit: xed with Boro and Noogle

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Lommy

I'm extremely annoyed at the moment because of outside-ww reasons (our apartment is to be renovated and the very thought of the noise makes me want to strangle someone

I am as well. This will be my last toDay. But, for what it's worth, I'll vote

++ lynch the phantom

I think I have already stated enough reasons for my choice.

Good night and Night, my loves.

[Kath]

8 pages in one Day? And there's me thinking it might get quieter as the game went on. So, here are some thoughts on toDay:

Boro - now here's an odd thing actually, if Boro pushed this Agan kill deliberately and anticipated the set up then why the 'just my luck' comment? Why seem mildly surprised or exasperated if he was expecting it. Although, note that phantom actually gave him the out of that explanation, Boro only said that had been his plan after phantom suggested it. I think I can see where people are coming from in their suspicion of Boro. I must say that I think Boro is more than capable of digging his own grave as an innocent because I have seen him do it on a number of occasions, and I think that's what he's doing here.

Nerwen - I don't think there was anything suspicious about her comment. Some people are just better at predicting kills.

Ilya - the response to phantom's comments makes me certain that they're not a wolf pairing, she seemed truly offended.

morm - I think he's more annoyed than truly suspicious, but that annoyance makes him disinclined to look at alternative explanations for things and so he finds things suspicious that maybe aren't. Says that Nerwen is backtracking, but no she isn't, she's explaining. She said the kill was predictable and then she explained why she thought that, no backtracking there.

sally (stan never caught on did it?) - now see, there is madness, many of the replies in her multi-quote post were odd as per usual, but there were fragments of sense in there and her list post was almost entirely substance. It worries me coming from her.

Rune - well, I guess he was honest about Agan's death, and I've certainly felt the same way about the deaths of certain players in the past. Says it's bad when people make long analysis posts but doesn't mention who those people are, which isn't really very helpful.

Shasta - really does not know how some of our players work. Deliberately setting someone up to die even if you're pretty sure they are innocent is not a new thing. The finality with which he made the statement seems odd to me. And this game is so often innocent vs innocent even when it's accidental!

Brinn - big long analysis post promised, big long post with lots of quotes and a tiny summary at the end gained. Hoping she offers something more in future.

Greenie - basically says 'lots of things to look at'. Will have to see if she actually did. Didn't look at the Eonwe voters, did look at Ilya. Made a list with some good points. And yet. I think it's the tone of her posts that gets me. morm doesn't like phantom's because they feel 'giddy', I don't like Greenie's because they feel smug - and I don't know how else to explain that.

Lommy - suspicious of everyone who actually reacted to Agan's death. I disagree with her on all accounts really - as I don't think it makes Boro or Nerwen look suspicious and I don't understand how Ilya overreacted. She did notice that inconsistency from Boro too. I'm not sure about Lommy toDay. She does seem to be blowing things out of proportion a little.

Nog - is just against phantom in general I think. I mean I completely agree that phantom's playing style drives you up the wall, although not me this game for some reason, so I get the frustration, but what I don't think Nog has are any actual reasons.

It seems like everyone just got a little bit overheated toDay, and if neither Boro nor phantom are wolves then the real wolves must be just loving it. Total distracted with probably very little effort on their parts!

Now, if I am wrong and one or the other of them is a wolf, by the look of things it would be Boro. If he isn't a wolf he's done a very fine job of making it look like he is!

Still, my actual suspects toDay are sally, Rune and Greenie. My vote will go to one of them in the next hour or so.

[Thinlómien]

First off - sorry Nerwen and thanks Boro. I do not suspect Nerwen after all. I totally forgot about the ranger-mistake. I think she wouldn't have cheated that way if she was a wolf... Now you two are probably happy to know that this makes me more suspicious of morm who keeps insisting on Nerwen's guilt for rather flimsy reasons. But it would be really ironic if morm happened to be a baddie in the first game ever I've started to trust him even a little...

About tp and Boro (only this, I swear) - I think both Kath and Nog have a point about them. But I'd still give them another Day. After all, currently I'm thinking that if they are smarter than me, they're wolves, and if I'm smarter than them, they're innocent.

Here's something I do not like:

Originally Posted by sally

People I'd like to see get lynched. ToDay. Mehbe.
Ilya
Nerwen
Morm or Boro or Phantom (preferably one of the former, as then we can get on with our lives. heh.)
Gwath (because we can )

It looks very furrily opportunistic. There she has listed almost every single person who has been suspected toDay. Looks like she's willing to support any bandwagon that appears. (She's not a rep, but still, that's rather bad. She keeps all doors open for lobbying to get just about anyone lynched.)


edit: xed with Kath

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Now you two are probably happy to know that this makes me more suspicious of morm who keeps insisting on Nerwen's guilt for rather flimsy reasons.

Where have I been insisting Nerwen guilt? This is a clear case of Boro's influencing you Lommy. I have said little today about Nerwen. I do suspect her but not what it was yesterday...have you missed the whole Boro/Morm saga? Now this isn't to ridicule you but I have noticed that Boro has been throwing out statements like what you just said all day. I can only imagine that you are now influenced by him. Check your reasoning on this Lommy.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Green

++ lynch the phantom

I think I have already stated enough reasons for my choice.

Interesting. I made a point to go out of my way for you, Green, answering question after question for you, as well as logically addressing every reason you believed you had to suspect me. For the most part you ignored me, in the sense that you did not post responses to most of my points, and a few times you even repeated points against me which I had already answered.

Oh well.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by mormegil

Now this isn't to ridicule you but I have noticed that Boro has been throwing out statements like what you just said all day. I can only imagine that you are now influenced by him. Check your reasoning on this Lommy.

Looks like I'm just influenced by everything toDay. I really feel I'd better go to sleep, but I have to vote first and I want to vote wisely...

[the phantom]

Looking at Nog's voting records....

[mormegil]

I must be going for a few hours but it occured to me that we haven't really heard from Shasta today, which is odd after he was so vocal at the start.

[Nogrod]

The votes for representatives for Day2

Day2

Lommy -> Nerwen
(“I trust her more than most others, and I can more or less agree with most that she says, except for her stance on Brinn. Also, I know she's smart and will probably adapt well to whatever still happens in the course of this Day. And lastly, I trust that she will read my posts and hear what I have to say even if she does not necessarily agree with everyhting I say...”)
Nerwen -> Lommy
(“I will return the compliment [votes Lommy] Because I'm thinking of her as likely innocent right now, and she usually has good judgement. I also would prefer to see a change of government”)
Agan -> Boro
Morm -> Aganzir
(a lot of her suspects are those who I suspect, namely Nerwen being the top. I would like my rep to vote the way I feel and since I have a greater degree of trust in Agan than many others it's a satisfactory match for my vote)
The Ka -> Lommy (2)
(“As for a new rep, I’m looking at either Nerwen or Lommy. Slightly more the latter. Even with the argument between Aganzir, I’m not seeing a wolf or wolves trying to cast opinions around, but two innocents, with Lommy looking more so. This second Day she’s shown a level of interest and ability in the game that I value in a representative, and hopefully with her reason can make sure we avoid another incident as yesterday”)
Greenie -> morm
(“I want new faces to the reps, and of the two people on my innocent list who haven't yet been reps morm was the one who already hasn't been voted as a rep as I believe Lommie just received her second vote. Besides, I'm slightly more comfortable with morm than with Lommy at the moment, though I believe both are innocents. Also, morm's suspicions are not too far from my own and I judge him capable of good decisions if he indeed is an innocent villager like I believe he is”)
Eonwë -> Lommy (3)
Rune -> morm (2)
(“It stood between him and Boromir, both have made exelent cases for their view points through out the day. I am not saying that they are innocent, but I like their way of going about things and also some of the stuff they say… I want a my Representative to have style and not be afraid of saying things as they are. … Anyways why did I chose Morm over Boro, well to be honest there is just something sweet about voting an enemy of old into a possition of power”)
Kath -> Boro (2)
(“Lommy I still feel is innocent and I would have voted for her but she already has enough votes to be a Rep and Boro is second on my list of those I think innocent and he doesn't”)
Shasta -> Nerwen (2)
(he said earlier: “After reading again, I'm still getting a bad vibe from The Ka, and I don't know why. As for reps, I could vote Brinn, Agan, Greenie, Morm, or Nerwen today” and then went voting Nerwen with “Not sure if I'll be back later, so I thought I'd get this in now”)
Nogrod -> Boro (3)
(“I really want to see what Boro does with the power invested on him on that scale... even if it narrows down the number of the representatives.(Think of the game balance indeed! Seven "two-voters" are the happiest place for the wolves qualified... after not being a representative in the first place, that is) I don't trust him at all at this moment but I want to check his cards whatever it leads to.
Ilya -> Rune
(“I am unsettled by the son of Bjarne's idea that one rep with a lot of power would be a fun thing to try. But his other logic is good, and he isn't giving off any bad vibes … I'd like to see another new face and I feel like Rune has a reasonable, and reasonably funny, voice”)
Brinn -> Kath
(“as of now I'm thinking of voting for Kath as my rep. I agree with a lot she has to say and I feel her posts seem more innocentish than not”)
Boro -> Aganzir (2) (“Also, I'm toying with the idea of going with an incumbent - Agan. And knowing that tp will now truly be ok as an advisor, I feel fine leaving him out of a seat this time through”)
tp -> Kath (2)
(“I'm leaning towards Kath. She said she'll be around the second half, and she has not yet been a Rep. I have less of an idea about where she stands, so I'd feel safer going with Agan (as far as her lynching someone I'd like lynched), but if you're leaning towards making Agan a Rep already yourself then I'd like to give Kath a shot and see what she does. At the least I do feel that she is innocent”)

[the phantom]

Conclusions about Nog's voting guide-

1) On Day 1, the only possibility of a threatened WW was Gwath. If he is indeed a WW, then Boro would be a possible suspect.

2) On Day 2, the only possibility of a threatened WW was Nerwen. If she is indeed a WW, then Lommy would be a possible suspect.

3) Assuming Gwath is innocent, then Boro's decisive vote makes him look innocent.

4) Assuming Nerwen is innocent, then Lommy's decisive vote makes her look innocent.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by the phantom

3) Assuming Gwath is innocent, then Boro's decisive vote makes him look innocent.

4) Assuming Nerwen is innocent, then Lommy's decisive vote makes her look innocent.

I don't follow this logic. Why?

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by morm

I must be going for a few hours but it occured to me that we haven't really heard from Shasta today, which is odd after he was so vocal at the start.

I have a theory on it. It probably isn't correct, but it's something that popped into my mind.

Early in the day Boro said this-

If I vote for you as a rep, does that mean I have your sworn word that you will lynch Shasta?

Now, if the WWs are at all worried about Boro as a potential Seer, this looks like a silver bullet right there (assuming Shasta is a WW). And even though from my vantage point I can tell you Boro is extremely unlikely to be our Seer, you can understand that the WWs would be much more paranoid about it, and therefore more likely to make errors on the matter.

So perhaps Shasta read that and thought, "I'm screwed. I'd best just not show up and say anything that would incriminate my fellows. Especially since the tide is turning against Boro anyway."

I'd say that the possibility is a longshot, but it's the idea that struck me.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Lommy

I don't follow this logic. Why?

Because WWs tend to shy away from killing innocents right out in the open. WWs worry that there might be a backlash from causing the death of an innocent. When no WWs are on the chopping block, it would be better to put your vote elsewhere and let the Ordos do the actual lynching.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Because WWs tend to shy away from killing innocents right out in the open. WWs worry that there might be a backlash from causing the death of an innocent. When no WWs are on the chopping block, it would be better to put your vote elsewhere and let the Ordos do the actual lynching.

Well, could be. But I don't do that so you might remove it from possible proof of my innocence... and also, I believe I'm not the only person your rule does not apply to, so I wouldn't draw hasty conclusions.

[Thinlómien]

Is there no one but me and tp around?

Too bad, because I would have to decide who to vote and I have little idea. Some discussion would help but 1) it's difficult if there's just one person besides me around and 2) I'm not sure I want to talk with phantom of all people...

Maybe I'll go and do some rereading stuff...

[Kath]

Right, I'm a little worried that my suspicion of Greenie is based on just a dislike of her posting style so I'm going to leave her for now.

++SALLY

Is who I am going to vote toDay. She is not herself and that worries me a lot.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I am around, but I am quit tired and pretty much just reading what is going on.

[Thinlómien]

Oh, I'm too lazy to reread all this flood-posting... This is a horrible village because it takes so much work to go back and reread stuff...

I feel like voting Ka or Ilya or Gwath. Or maybe sally, Rune or morm. No idea... Any (reasoned) preferences, anyone?


edit: xed with Kath and Rune

[Ilya]

I...wow. I have to go out again in an hour, but I'll try to catch up on what I can. Sorry I haven't been around today, y'all. Work ate me.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Any (reasoned) preferences, anyone?

Well, I don't have a vote, so I'm not sure my opinion matters.

But looking at those that you listed...

KA scares me in the same way people scare Nog... submarine.

Sally is much the same, which seems unlike her.

Gwath has been doing the same thing a bit, but I'm not wanting to see him gone purely because he's trusting many of the same people I am. Of course this could be the sign of a WW who knows precisely who to trust.

I flip-flop on Ilya constantly. But with the way she has shared opinions and been sensible, and because she's new, I hardly want to cast her out at this point. Yeah, yeah... she may be using Newbiness to her advantage. I know.

Rune and morm- meh. I like having them around to talk to. But of course that has nothing to do with Wolfishness. But morm seems to be making an effort, and his feelings seem genuine. I haven't as much a feel for Rune, possibly because I haven't played with him as much. I'd like to keep him around almost just for that reason.