Werewolf LIII: The Republic

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

That does it. Since, as far as I know, this game isn't innocent vs. innocent, there's no way you can be innocent. I don't believe this.

But there is a logic to it, Shasta.

What I am on the fence about myself is whether or not it's just a cover-story (i.e. one that allows the wolves to lynch the people most dangerous to them and blame the deaths on framing-attempts.)

EDIT: x'd with Brinniel.

[Nerwen]

Thanks, Brin.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Thoughts:

It seems yesterDay Aganzir was suspected by half and considered innocent by another half, and several others placed her somewhere in between. She's obviously not a no-trace kill since she left plenty of posts with substance.

I think suspected seerism is likely. Perhaps the wolves thought she was a seer who dreamt of Lommy on Night 2. After all, on Day 1 she at first suspects Lommy then says she'd like to keep an eye on her. And the next Day she suddenly finds her innocent. Or it's possible she was killed to set someone up. Though I think the former is more likely.

Or both; I rather think the wolves are multi-tasking. I expected to find Agan dead toDay, and I hadn't even seen the significance of her switch on Lommy. You're probably right about the Seer-hint, though.

EDIT: fixed quotes.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Ilya

Wherein you do a triplebluff where we all expect that you know that we know that you knew Agan was a formidible anti-wolf force, so you know you that someone would call you on it so you know to say that that's obviously what the wolves know, even though you know that's what we know.

Honestly, this is what y'all sound like sometimes.

I definitely know the feeling.

It seems now is the time of Day when only me and Nerwen are around... I've read everything quickly through, but have to digest a bit - I've read, what, three and a half pages today and feel a bit baffled still.

If I had the time I'd love to have a good look on the Eönwë lynch. I'll be off soon, but will be back probably in several hours, and will most definitely have a list by then. I had some comments about yesterDay but forgot them. Gosh, I must seem horribly confused.

Overall impressions:
- I'm glad to have seen more of Sally. She seems innocentish this far.
- Agan's kill can lead to a myriad directions, I'd love to have a better look at it too. (It seems I already have loads of stuff I'd like to have a look at...)
- I'm torn about Nerwen. The problem isn't the classic no read -problem, but a problem of having both innocent and suspicious vibes about her. She's a one I'll definitely have a look at if I have the time. (See? SEE?)
- I don't trust Ilya. I don't right know where I got that assumption from. Suppose I have to look at it ()...

Like I said, I'll be back in some hours, hopefully with more substance. I have no time to start doing anything real, so this crappy post is all you'll get of me for now. More coming in time. And that's a promise.

[A Little Green]

Unless... Nerwen, are you still around? I'll be leaving in a bit less than twenty minutes, but if you are here we could have a little (green) chat.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by phantom, to Boro

4) The Seer has almost certainly checked us by now.

Why do you think so? Or rather, it's somewhat obvious what the reasoning behind that is, the question is what makes you reason that way? (Oh, and it wasn't me who complained about complicated sentences, was it? ) My, that question really is horrible. If you don't get what it means (I'm almost ready to call you genius if you get it), then just answer the original question. Sorry to be so unclear. Just too little sleep, you know...

[A Little Green]

Hee-hee, quadruple posting! Hooray! ...except that this last post is just to say that I'm going now and leaving the computer to Lommy. I'll go and have a nap now before returning to school. Post a lot while I'm gone, will you, dearies?

[Nerwen]

Yes, I'm here.

EDIT: x'd with two Greenies. So you're going. Well, 'bye then.

[Thinlómien]

My first reaction to all that's happened was: "WHAT?!?"

Not because I'm particularily surprised to see Agan go (and revealed innocent after all...) or anything. But the reactions to her death are most baffling.

Boro's "ooh see they tried to frame me" looks just so false. I don't think Agan's death points at Boro especially, so he just seems to be exaggerating way too much.

Also, Nerwen's laconic words

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, that was predictable.

strike me as fishy. I cannot see the kill as that predictable. I mean, I'm not surprised to see Agan go but I didn't expect it either. Nerwen's reaction looks like the classic wolf mistake of supposing their kill was more obvious than it actually was. (On the other hand, all this criticims towards her comment also looks like the classic mistake of taking one random comment too seriously... )

Ilya's overreacting too, but in her case it looks the most innocent. She's still rather new to this game after all, and her feelings sound genuine-ish.

I will be back in some hours and will post more. I want to talk about the tp-Boro issue for it certainly deserves some criticism...

[Nerwen]

Let me explain.

When Boro did that little bit about "signing Agan's death-warrant", and tp joined in by proclaiming that if Agan died he would go after Boro, I thought it looked like a set-up.

I guessed that either

a.) they were innocents trying to sick the wolves onto Agan because they'd both independently decided that she wasn't the Seer and might become a lynch-candidate... in which case the wolves might well take a look at her and decide that yes, she looked appetising.

or

b.) they were guilty and were going to kill Agan and then make the above claim.

So I thought there was a good chance Aganzir was going to get it.

EDIT: word left out.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by me

Because that's sort of why I declared her innocent and said what I did about her. I thought for sure she was not a WW, and not the Seer, but an Ordo that was likely to be a lynching distraction to other Ordos, and therefore thought it best that she die during the Night. So I did what I could to make her look like an attractive target.

Originally Posted by Shasta

That does it. Since, as far as I know, this game isn't innocent vs. innocent, there's no way you can be innocent. I don't believe this.

Oh, you don't say? You should really go ask Dancing Spawn about the time I tried to set her up to die. I was an Ordo in that game too.

Lommy and Nogrod might remember that. It was in their WerePenguin game.

I believe I also lied that I was the Hunter in that game. But no doubt lying about being the Hunter means that you can't possibly be innocent in your book.

Hate to say it, lad, but I'm way meaner and evil when I'm an Ordo than I am when I'm a WW.

Originally Posted by me

4) The Seer has almost certainly checked us by now.

Originally Posted by Green

Why do you think so? Or rather, it's somewhat obvious what the reasoning behind that is, the question is what makes you reason that way? (Oh, and it wasn't me who complained about complicated sentences, was it? ) My, that question really is horrible. If you don't get what it means (I'm almost ready to call you genius if you get it), then just answer the original question. Sorry to be so unclear.

Erm... huh?

Okay, let's see if I can make any sense of that and answer what I think your question might be.... I would say that for sure half of my statement was true as of yesterday, and I think that it's probable that the entire statement is true as of today, but I don't know for certain at this time.

Cool?

I'm running late for work now. Be back in a few hours.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Drat, I should have learned my lesson from Mith, to never cross paths with a woman when moddessfire is on the line.

Apparently, I was dangerous to cross long before Werewolf....

[Nerwen]

There was a time before Werewolf?

[Thinlómien]

Alright, Nerwen, your explanation makes sense. I will now rightaway admit that I'm partly so suspicious of Boro and tp because I didn't understand their ploy and feel a little dumb right now. But that is not to say there isn't anything fishy in their behaviour.

Originally Posted by tp

Oh, you don't say? You should really go ask Dancing Spawn about the time I tried to set her up to die. I was an Ordo in that game too.
Lommy and Nogrod might remember that. It was in their WerePenguin game.
I believe I also lied that I was the Hunter in that game. But no doubt lying about being the Hunter means that you can't possibly be innocent in your book.

I don't remember you doing that, but I do remember the hunter-ploy. But whatever you did back then has hardly any importance now - if you really did set up Agan to die you would have done even if it was your first attempt at getting innocents killed in this manner.

But anyway, what I was intending to talk about was this whole Boro-phantom mess. There are (surprisngly) three options:

1) They're both innocent and did indeed intentionally cause Aganzir's death to protect the seer and remove an innocent lynch target.

2) They're both guilty, and are having a little joke and enjoying it tremendously, or then just trying to cover their tracks.

3) One of them is a wolf and tricking the other while laughing evilly. (As a sidenote, if this is the case, they totally deserve it and we others should let them quarrel in peace. )

Originally Posted by the phantom

So, Agan died. I'm sad, because I trusted her. Plus she's all smart and pretty and stuff.
But on the bright side I wasn't killed. So guess what? You all get one more day of Phantom!

Sounds like tp set Agan up for the kill so that he would survive never mind the seer...

And is this, in any way, more than a little contradictory?

Originally Posted by Boro

Oh just my luck, I hope the wolves really don't think the intelligent villagers will fall for such an obvious trick?

Originally Posted by Boro

Nice job, tp, I should have known you would have caught on. I thought you were going to start a Nog/Boro war and get me lynched. Well, maybe I'm speaking too soon.

So, first Boro is the victim of a wolvish staging to make him look guilty, and then he's a cunning ww played who was intending to get ordo-Aganzir killed all along?

Originally Posted by tp

4) The Seer has almost certainly checked us by now.

Really, forget about that nonsense. Why would s/he have? Many seers leave loud players aloud just because it's easier to read them or they might get killed and focus on the submarines...

All this talk of tp's troubles me. He's using heavy means of allying himself with Boro and his arguments and ploys are rather wild. He may claim he did intentionally get Agan killed. That might be true. But it's just as probable that he just made this explanation up afterwards, or even worse, had it all planned in his wolvish mind all along... I don't trust him, at all. All that - the wolves falling for his "masterful" ploy etc - just looks a bit too smooth...


edit: xed with Nerwen

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I am back, I have read throught the posts and I have come up with nothing.

And in my despair all I could think about is how fun it would be to dubble lynch Boromir and The Phantom.

One thing that has me worried is this tendencie to make long so called analysis which conclude very little and offer no explanation to how the conclution is reached.
It always makes me look an extra time when people make a lot of work and end up with very little product.

[Boromir88]

Boro's "ooh see they tried to frame me" looks just so false. I don't think Agan's death points at Boro especially, so he just seems to be exaggerating way too much.~Lommy

I wanted to kill the plot before one could even be started.

I mean look at it, the wolves fell into it. They thought ooh we get rid of Agan, who is interrogating and asking too many question, and we get this Nog/Boro/the phantom war! Killing several of us with one stone. (Oh and yes, I do believe Nog is innocent now too).

For some reason I believe Fea would get an immense joy out of all the loud mouths killing eachother off...imagine the posting and chaos? But, ha, I say to you Fea, I have caught on to your plot as well. The phantom is thus innocent, and I feel better about Nogrod. I shall redirect my attention eslewhere.

[mormegil]

In catching up, no I never read the last page or two of yesterday's crap as it seemed almost wholly irrelevant. I skimmed what time would allow but I was annoyed enough at the triviality of the posts that a skimming was all I had time for.

Anyway, the Boro/Phantom relationship is increasingly bothering me. I see that Lommy is of the same persuasion as I. It just seems rather odd to me that they would be so close and trusting. Both of them are being that way and any questioning they do, which has been minimal, has been token at best. I don't trust anybody ever that much and it just seems odd to me that they do. I think they could both be wolves and are having a joyous time at our expense. They continue to lay the obvious bait in front of us but we have been reluctant to take it, as they knew we would. Phantom talks of big grand schemes that he is masterminding but I don't see it, rather I see two cohorts who are working hand in hand. And now phantom seems almost giddy like he did on day 1 which is concerning. I don't feel that way, I don't think things are going so great for us that I can afford to be giddy. Yes, we still have our seer, but there is no way of knowing is he/she has bagged even a single wolf, we surely haven't.

Nerwen's 'that's predictable' statement does nothing to allay my fears. I understand the explination somewhat but the way in which her and Boro came out firing on those seems odd and I already suspected Nerwen and again this does not help.

Brinn, thank you for those quotes and analysis. I had noticed the way in which Agan stopped suspecting Lommy so if we assume the wolves went after Agan for potential seerism I think is safe to assume that Lommy is innocent. I haven't felt overly worried about Lommy but this adds some credibility to my assumption.

[mormegil]

Oh, I forgot to mention that Nerwen is doing some major back-tracking after her initial comments today.

[Boromir88]

I see Rune's back, and I have a question for you sir...

I don't know why, but apparently I am incabable of picking up on seer hints and such, so Aganzir's death came as suprise to me.

Are you saying you didn't believe Agan was the seer, but the wolves obviously killed her because they thought she was the seer, leading you to be surprised about her death? Is this a slip Rune? It really doesn't make sense, if you didn't pick up on Agan's seer hints, what makes you think that's what the wolves were trying to do?

Edit: crossed with morm twice.

[Boromir88]

Morm, I do not work hand-in-hand with wolves, I am the most vicious, turn on my buddies wolf, sans Nogrod. I have no qualms about lynching wolf-buddies if it benefits me.

And before someone says how suspicious this is for me to say this, and I'm obviously playing mind games, I'm only playing mind games on the wolves. If you're not a wolf, there's no reason you should think I am double-triple bluffing right now. Well if you want to, then that's your own prerogative.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by the phantom

And I do mean one more day. I don't see any way I survive another Night phase. For surely the WWs have realized by now that I am, indeed, the Dread Pirate Roberts.

You know what, I'm indeed inclined to believe the mood behind this one. But I'm not sure if I believe it this way or as a version where the word "Night" is changed into a "Day" and the WW's into villagers. The problem is that your posting is such a thicket of thoughts, suggestions, plots, suspicions and pledges of trust that it's pretty impossible to see through them.

I bet it's fun to play that way and sometimes it's also fun to read. But at the same time it's pretty much making you immune to any actual accusations because you can always turn a suspicion back saying "it was just a test", or "it was just a ploy". So one needs to either buy you as you are or just ignore you. It's like a totally new type of submarine of whom you can get no hold of even if you see it in front of you all the time. A yellow submarine?

Anyway, whatever your role is you can probably count your Days to be numbered pretty soon. So all that remains to be asked is what do you do with the time you have been given? My verdict on you will depend on that factor.

EDIT: X'd from Rune onwards... good to see people around.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I see what you are saying Morm and if anybody would be daring enough to hide in the open, it would be Boromir and The Phantom. . . Even so I am not quite convinced that it is the case. I have seen it more times that daring innocents have paired up like this, than I have seen it done by wolves and thus my personal experience tells me they are innocent. Anyways I will try to keep an open mind.

Originally Posted by Boromir

Are you saying you didn't believe Agan was the seer, but the wolves obviously killed her because they thought she was the seer, leading you to be surprised about her death? Is this a slip Rune? It really doesn't make sense, if you didn't pick up on Agan's seer hints, what makes you think that's what the wolves were trying to do?

I am saying that I did not see any signs to Aganzir being the seer and therefor I did not predict nor expect her death, as it seemed Nerwen and others had.

EDIT: Cross posted with Nogrod

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Morm, I do not work hand-in-hand with wolves, I am the most vicious, turn on my buddies wolf, sans Nogrod. I have no qualms about lynching wolf-buddies if it benefits me.

And before someone says how suspicious this is for me to say this, and I'm obviously playing mind games, I'm only playing mind games on the wolves. If you're not a wolf, there's no reason you should think I am double-triple bluffing right now. Well if you want to, then that's your own prerogative.

Yes, you would only turn IF it benefits you and so far it has not.

Then for you to ask me to sit quietly and not worry about what your doing is absurd..."there there morm, us big people are doing our thing, don't worry about us unless your a wolf." That seems to be a thinly veiled threat that to suspect you will bring death to those who do.

I have no reason to not suspect you Boro. So when I see mindgames happening, which you and phantom claim are I begin to question. When I see two people working together like you and phantom are I really question it. You are both brazen enough to pull of a stunt like this.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I mean look at it, the wolves fell into it. They thought ooh we get rid of Agan, who is interrogating and asking too many question, and we get this Nog/Boro/the phantom war! Killing several of us with one stone. (Oh and yes, I do believe Nog is innocent now too).

I need to think about this - and actually read the posts from late yesterDay and early toDay with a closer eye (I just skimmed the thread through as I got home) before saying anything more substantial. If I can do that.

I do have a feeling though that quite an interesting game of chess was played there between the last hours of yesterDay and the early hours of toDay - or then we are actually being led to believe that was the case which is kind of saying there was a game but a different one from what we think. So who were the players and who were played with?

When I saw tp keenly anticipating the Boro/Nog-war it made me suspect him heavily and somewhat lessened my suspicions on Boro. I'm not afraid to go to war if it needs to be done, but when some people are looking forwards to it, like it would be their entertainment, I do smell a rat.

Okay. I need to make some dinner and I will then read the last pages again before trying to give my two cents on those chess-games.

[Boromir88]

I have no reason to not suspect you Boro. So when I see mindgames happening, which you and phantom claim are I begin to question. When I see two people working together like you and phantom are I really question it. You are both brazen enough to pull of a stunt like this.~morm

Correct...but I would bet my life savings that at least either tp or I have already been dreamed of. And I would be my house (alright that's not as big of a gamble) that both of us have been.

I'm innocent, I don't want the seer out claiming I'm innocent. Hear that seer, if you have dreamed about me...stay put! Same with the phantom, if he/she knows tp is innocent, stay put. Now if he's a wolf, I would hope the seer would be leaving clues, or at least contemplate revealing.

But, since the seer has yet to reveal, and I see no signs of accusations against the phantom, other than he's playing a bunch of mind games, why suspect him? Why not work with him?

And see morm, you're so focused on the tricks and ploys, you're not looking at the actual kills. The phantom, under no circumstances would have killed McCaber on night 1, none. Period. The phantom hunts down the seer first; and I'll say that again - seer. Now, I will grant Lommy that under certain circumstances, if I was a wolf, I could possibly go for someone who wouldn't leave a trail. Those circumstances though, are only when I'm wolves with Mith, because she outranks me and I've been turned into the whipping boy of the three moddesses.

[A Little Green]

I'M UNEASY ABOUT
Noggins-Woggins - Generally he's been making me quite uneasy. Some actions of his are really weird, such as giving a third vote to a Boro he didn't trust (you still haven't explained that, by the way - I believe you just explained why it's sensible to vote for someone you don't trust, but it didn't answer the question why you gave him a third vote when he was already through...). Also, I still don't like his role in Legate's lynch. Hmmm.
Boro & phantom - They wouldn't probably be here otherwise, but the combination and the interactions and similarities between the two make me slightly uneasy... So yeah, I don't like the ploy stuff. I agree with Nog that it can be easily used as a cover for any behaviour whatsoever. And - I think I'm parroting morm now - I don't like the way the two of them trust each other so easily. I believe I even asked it once, and the answer had something to do with ploys... Especially phantom's way of answering every question concerning himself with "If you are innocent, you keep your mouth shut and concentrate on other issues" doesn't strike me as fair play, to be honest.

I'M UNDECIDED ABOUT
Ilya - Hmmm. I had these evil vibes from her earlier toDay, but looking through what she has posted nothing jumped on me... So I don't know. I don't buy that "too smooth for a newbie" -stuff, though - even newbies can have very different styles of playing and should not be underestimated, and besides I have understood that she isn't entirely new to WW anyway.
Nerwen - Like I believe I said earlier, she gives me both innocentish and wolvish vibes so I'm totally confused about her.

I'M NOT UNEASY ABOUT
Brinniel - Still same as ever. (I believe I have never ever suspected her in a WW game - but then, I don't remember ever playing in a game with a Brinn-wolf, so I don't know how good I would be in spotting one...)
Lommy - Still seems genuine and sensible and thinks similarly to me in many points.
Kath - Her tone this far seems innocentish.
mormegil - Brings up good points, behaves sensibly and has done nothing to arouse my suspicions.
Rune - Same as morm. And besides, he is amusing.
Sally - Like I said earlier, she seems like an innocent Sally to me. I have nothing to add to that.
Shasta - Yes, I do have a clue about him (Hooray!), and he seems innocent to me.

I HAVEN'T GOT A CLUE ABOUT
Gil-Galad - Is he playing?
Gwathagor - No idea at all. I need to see more of him.
The Ka - The same as with Gwath. Hope they are having fun under the reindeer/rainbow/whatever...

I think my rep vote will go for either Rune, Sally, or morm. Rune and Sally I feel good about, and I'd love to see new faces among our darling reps. I think Rune would do well as a rep, and I agree with him on many points. Sally could do well also, and besides it would force some opinions from her - the only thing that worries me in her is that I don't remember her posting many opinions on other players. Morm, then, is the one whose innocence I feel the most sure about, for some unknown reason. I reserve to myself the possibility of bringing up a surprise candidate if something devastating happens.


EDIT: x-ed with Rune, morm, Nog and Boro. Nice to have people around! Hello! *waves*

[satansaloser2005]

To follow on from what Boro said, the McCaber kill tells us a lot about the wolves, although Cabbie himself said very little.


Why get rid of Cabbie when he's (as of yet) not posing a threat to you? There's no ranger in your way, why not go for a loud, very experienced player (which isn't to say that Cabbie is a newbie, because he's not) and get one of the big threats out of the way.

For instance, the way I play. (Like I should be telling you all this, but I'm trying to prove a point.)


When I'm seer, my first night dream is ALWAYS someone I know I can rely on to make a lot of trouble. Well, not so much trouble as noise I suppose. That way I already know where they're coming from and can gauge other's reactions from theirs. Either that or someone I thoroughly enjoy playing with, and then I pretty much hope they're innocent so I don't have to kill them. (For instance, the game where I was a seer on here my first dream was Nog.)

When I'm a wolf, and there's a ranger, my first night kill is either a person whom I see as a threat just because of who they are, a person whom I don't like playing with as much as the others (don't take offense at that, any of my/our past kills from other games. I rarely use that as a kill pick method) or for who I think the seer might be (if it doesn't seem too obvious, as in they're leaving fairly big seer hints and I think they'll be protected). Granted, last game I didn't follow that pattern, but if I recall properly Gollum really wanted Legate dead. Moving on....if there's no ranger I go for the seer the first night. Period.



Can I use old games as evidence? I really don't think so, but my argument will make more sense if I mention this. One game I was an ordo and Nerwen was a wolf (I can't remember who her packmates were and it's pretty much irrelevant). I died the first night. That's right, Sally died the first night. Random kill much, children? (Also, you don't kill Sally the first night. You just don't. You keep me around to lynch, dang it! )

Sorry, I digress again. Anyway, I believe it was early in the second Day that Nerwen mentioned something about the ranger. There is no ranger in this game. Now she may have been kidding around, but my theory?

You don't kill someone like Cabbie the first night unless you're playing a risky game. You go for the seer unless there's a ranger, and even then you try. So if you think there's a ranger and you're the kind of player who likes to kill off semi-random people, who would you go for? Someone like Cabbie. And who would do that? Someone like Nerwen.

I just woke up. Does this make any sense?


EDIT: x'd with some little green girl.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

To follow on from what Boro said, the McCaber kill tells us a lot about the wolves, although Cabbie himself said very little.


Why get rid of Cabbie when he's (as of yet) not posing a threat to you? There's no ranger in your way, why not go for a loud, very experienced player (which isn't to say that Cabbie is a newbie, because he's not) and get one of the big threats out of the way.

Sally, assume with me for just a moment that both Boro and phantom are wolves, what would happen if one or two of the louder players started dying at night and they did not??? Fingers immediately would be pointed at them for simply being alive. We only have a few loudmouths, although some are exceptionally loud, when Borowolf and tummywolf took inventory on the situation they could make the connection that it would be best to leave the other more vocal players alive for a while. I know that they would be going for the seer first and perhaps they saw something in McCaber and Agan that made them believe they were the seer.

My point is that if the team of 4 consists of at least two loudmouths there is little point in eliminating the other loudmouths that are not part of their pack as it makes people wonder why the two loudest are not dead.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by mormegil

Sally, assume with me for just a moment that both Boro and phantom are wolves, what would happen if one or two of the louder players started dying at night and they did not??? Fingers immediately would be pointed at them for simply being alive. We only have a few loudmouths, although some are exceptionally loud, when Borowolf and tummywolf took inventory on the situation they could make the connection that it would be best to leave the other more vocal players alive for a while. I know that they would be going for the seer first and perhaps they saw something in McCaber and Agan that made them believe they were the seer.

My point is that if the team of 4 consists of at least two loudmouths there is little point in eliminating the other loudmouths that are not part of their pack as it makes people wonder why the two loudest are not dead.

*concedes the point* Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the kill only points to Nerwen. That's just my interpretation of his death.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

*concedes the point* Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the kill only points to Nerwen. That's just my interpretation of his death.

I see your point too and I'm okay with it but I fear that too many have given both Boro and tummy a free pass up to this point and I'm not willing to do so. So when I see this it concerns me and I must point it out.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by mormegil

I see your point too and I'm okay with it but I fear that too many have given both Boro and tummy a free pass up to this point and I'm not willing to do so. So when I see this it concerns me and I must point it out.

Fair enough.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I really, really, really want to double lynch Phantom and Boro, just because of their little stunt. I like how Phantom claims that it was done because Agan was "a lynching distraction to the rest of the Ordos"... completely ignoring the fact that he himself is probably the biggest distraction of all, so by that logic, should have tried to get himself killed.

If you were going to try that ploy, why not on Gil, Gwath, or Ka? Why backstab someone who was actively contributing? Hardly seems fair to me. I'm sure Agan wasn't expecting to be backstabbed by a fellow innocent (if, indeed, you are, which I'm really beginning to doubt).

Edit: Though clearly I'm the evil one, what with my 666 posts.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I really, really, really want to double lynch Phantom and Boro, just because of their little stunt. I like how Phantom claims that it was done because Agan was "a lynching distraction to the rest of the Ordos"... completely ignoring the fact that he himself is probably the biggest distraction of all, so by that logic, should have tried to get himself killed.

Such an atempt would make this game spectacular. . .It could result in them being lynched which (if wolve) would be amazing and if innocents. . .well, then it would just be fun.

Also such an atempt might result in a filibuster and that would please fea.

Anyway about this proposed Boromir-Phantom alliance of doom, what if only one of them is a wolf? For instance I could imagine Boromir using The Phantom in such a scenario. Knowing that Phantom loves a bit of attention and jumps at every chance he gets to do something spectacular, Boromir would "attach" him self to him. . . The gain could be to hide in the open and in case he was discovered, he would most likely get Phantom killed as well.

About Nogrod: I cannot put my finger on it, but something seems different about him in this game. I don't know if it is just because he has been more or less ignoring my existance or there is something more sinicter behind. Little Green does not seem to trust him and bases her fears on his votes, of the two vote I see the Legate as the more incriminating one. Not that the Boromir vote is not odd, but this Representative-thing brings in a whole new side to the game. ( a side we have no experience with)

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I really, really, really want to double lynch Phantom and Boro, just because of their little stunt. I like how Phantom claims that it was done because Agan was "a lynching distraction to the rest of the Ordos"... completely ignoring the fact that he himself is probably the biggest distraction of all, so by that logic, should have tried to get himself killed.

If you were going to try that ploy, why not on Gil, Gwath, or Ka? Why backstab someone who was actively contributing? Hardly seems fair to me. I'm sure Agan wasn't expecting to be backstabbed by a fellow innocent (if, indeed, you are, which I'm really beginning to doubt).

Edit: Though clearly I'm the evil one, what with my 666 posts.

Oh, lordie. We're all going to die! *runs and hides*


Alternatively, (assuming that Ditto and Dotto are innocent and telling the truth) if they assumed Agan was innocent she would have been the easiest to get night killed. The other players (for example, Ka, Gil, Kath, etc) would take a lot more work to get enough night kill attention drawn their way because they've been so quiet.

[Boromir88]

If you were going to try that ploy, why not on Gil, Gwath, or Ka? Why backstab someone who was actively contributing? Hardly seems fair to me.~Shasta

It's all in defense of the seer, Agan's done well, she has died with honour knowing there was a purpose. That's something that any innocent should want. Shasta, you may not like how I go about my business here, but you know first hand how effective it can be. I know when it doesn't work everything ends up blowing up in my face, but I've learned from the proceedings that I'm willing to go out and say the phantom, Nogrod, and Nerwen seem innocent. I may be completely wrong, but it's a risk I'm willing to take.

Such an atempt would make this game spectacular. . .It could result in them being lynched which (if wolve) would be amazing and if innocents. . .well, then it would just be fun.~Rune

You would like that wouldn't you wolf-Rune. Some fun and fireworks while you get the two most active people lynched and out of your way?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Rune

And in my despair all I could think about is how fun it would be to dubble lynch Boromir and The Phantom.

Don't make me a rep, or I'll be tempted... *evil grin*

Funnily, I'm feeling good about morm and Nog. Probably because they share my doubts considering Boro and tp.

Also, I'm a bit worried about this "oh since Agan died Lommy must be innocent" stuff. I admit it's a logical conclusion but not so logical that this many people would have to agree with it. Something's fishy here.

And Boro's flip-flopping more:

Originally Posted by Boro

Are you saying you didn't believe Agan was the seer, but the wolves obviously killed her because they thought she was the seer, leading you to be surprised about her death? Is this a slip Rune? It really doesn't make sense, if you didn't pick up on Agan's seer hints, what makes you think that's what the wolves were trying to do?

First he admits trying to get Agan killed because he thought she was just an ordo, now he talks as if there had been obvious hints towards seerism in her posts... Getting caught in the web of your own lies, Boro?

Originally Posted by morm

Yes, you would only turn IF it benefits you and so far it has not.

I could echo this. Boro, do you deny that you could unashamedly ally with your fellow wolves if it benefitted you?

Originally Posted by Boro

Correct...but I would bet my life savings that at least either tp or I have already been dreamed of. And I would be my house (alright that's not as big of a gamble) that both of us have been.

I would take the bet, but I don't want to make you a poor man...

Originally Posted by Greenie

Especially phantom's way of answering every question concerning himself with "If you are innocent, you keep your mouth shut and concentrate on other issues" doesn't strike me as fair play, to be honest.

Agreed.

I would like to make a list now, and I'd also love to reread but this village is so loooooooong... and Greenie will surely want to post too sooner or later... hmmm...


edit: xed with Shasta, Rune, Sally and Boro

[Boromir88]

Alternatively, (assuming that Ditto and Dotto are innocent and telling the truth) if they assumed Agan was innocent she would have been the easiest to get night killed. The other players (for example, Ka, Gil, Kath, etc) would take a lot more work to get enough night kill attention drawn their way because they've been so quiet.~sally

Thank you, I forgot to mention that in my last post...or at least Gil. The phantom tried to get Gil set up as a wolf-target but was forced to explain, thus rendering the plan useless.

Edit: crossed with tp. (by tp I mean Lommy); how I got those too confused no idea.

Oh and sally you're good in my book today.

[Boromir88]

Funnily, I'm feeling good about morm and Nog. Probably because they share my doubts considering Boro and tp.~Lommy

I would look back on what you said back to day 1...

Which means I'm not going to vote anyone who seems too sane to be my representative.

I assume you were very well having some fun, maybe joking, but don't take someone who seems "together" and making sense as being innocent. Don't make that mistake. ::hint, hint::

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

About Nogrod: I cannot put my finger on it, but something seems different about him in this game. I don't know if it is just because he has been more or less ignoring my existance or there is something more sinicter behind. Little Green does not seem to trust him and bases her fears on his votes, of the two vote I see the Legate as the more incriminating one. Not that the Boromir vote is not odd, but this Representative-thing brings in a whole new side to the game. ( a side we have no experience with)

Agreed, something doesn't quite feel right with Noggie in my opinion, although nothing sinister has jumped out at me there is a nagging gut feeling. I've played enough with him to get a different vibe from him this time, although the same could be said for you Rune, perhaps it's because you are not at my throat that makes it so you are sending off a different vibe.

I think that at least one of the Boro/phantom duo is a wolf and wouldn't be surprised if both are either. The double lynch is an interesting and risky idea. I'm not prepared to do that honestly. I would rather lynch Boro over phantom as I think if only one is a wolf I would think it to be Boro.

On Gil, is there any risk of mod-fire from lack of participation? I don' remember reading that but I find it highly aggrivating and totally irresponsible to do this.

Cross posted with a few.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I assume you were very well having some fun, maybe joking, but don't take someone who seems "together" and making sense as being innocent. Don't make that mistake. ::hint, hint::

Actually, I was serious, but I was merely talking about Day1 back then, if I recall correctly. Of course, what you say is always a good advice in these games...

edit: xed with morm

[Boromir88]

And Boro's flip-flopping more:~Lommy

You know as well as I do flip-flopping is not a crime, you're admittingly one of the biggest flip-floppers around, and yet always innocent.