The Middle Earth Popularity Cup

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Have you ever wondered who's the most popular Middle Earth character here on the downs? What better way to find out than by a silly popularity-game?

I've arranged a tournament grid of 32 main characters of JRRT's books which here follows (sorry if I forgot someone significant; Edit: I did, so Celeborn is out Sam in):



Frodo (5) vs. The Gaffer (1)
Beleg Strongbow (5) vs. Farmer Maggot (4)
Peregrin Took (2) vs. Mim the Petty Dwarf (5)
Sauron (5) vs. Tuor (5)

Bilbo (5) vs. Maedhros (6)
Glaurung (6) vs. Thorin Oakenshield (5)
Boromir (9) vs. Beren (3)
Saruman (9) vs. Gollum (4)

Gandalf (10) vs. Tom Bombadil (8)
Elrond (7) vs. Eowyn (7)
Meriadoc Brandybuck (6) vs. Luthien (7)
Fëanor (5) vs. Galadriel (9)

Aragorn (6) vs. Thingol (2)
Legolas (3) vs. Samwise (9)
Gimli (8) vs. Turin (8)
Faramir (6) vs. Beorn (8)

The winner of each tie will be decided by voting. The first character of each match-up to receive five votes from five different users advances to the next round, where he or she will face off against the winner of the tie below.

You don't have to motivate your choices but it would be nice

Voting rules revised:
The voting will now be allowed to continue for approx. 24 hours until a deadline set at 12.00 AM board time. This means the voting will not be stopped if a character reaches 5 before the deadline. If none of the characters has reached 5 when the deadline expires the voting will continue until one does. If the score is tied at 5 or higher when the deadline passes (this is new!) anyone may vote again and the first to do so decides the contest in sudden death fashion

[skip spence]

Match 1 of round 1.

Frodo Baggins vs. Gaffer Gamgee

These wonderful characters are short only in stature. Ringbearer and main protagonist Frodo comes into this tie as the favourite, but the Gaffer's armed with a bag of memorable quotes and could cause an upset. Who will prevail? Vote for your favourite now!

First to five wins.

[skip spence]

Almost 40 views and no votes?

C'mon, it's easy and only takes seconds of your life!

Just like this:

++Frodo.

Never cared for how the Gaffer always tells his son how useless he is. Frodo, although a bit boring perhaps, did after all save everyone by destroying the ring.

See, now it's 1-0 to Frodo. First to 5 votes advances to the next round.

[Nerwen]

Well, just to be contrary–

++The Gaffer.

Someone who manages to get quoted so much when he was hardly in the story deserves a vote.

Besides, technically speaking Frodo didn't destroy the Ring.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, for me this is a hard choice. But I will go for

++Frodo

First, his posts seem fishy. Second, his reaction to my suspicion proved... eh, sorry, wrong thread.

I like Gaffer for lots of things, but I also like Frodo and maybe it is just a question of current mood: I feel right now like being closer to Frodo than to Gaffer. Frodo is... classic, we all know much about his character, so maybe this is it. And I like his character.

[Aganzir]

++Frodo

I like to compare him to Siddharta Gautama; having lived a happy youth, he went through a lot of suffering to achieve wisdom.
In the beginning he was a simple, ordinary hobbit - just like the Gaffer - but on returning home he had learnt forgiveness, mercy, and peace. When I was little, I found him a bit boring, not a proper hero, when he refused to bear weapons in the end, but now that's one of the most important things why I like him.

Frodo-3
Gaffer-1

edit: xed with Legate

[Nerwen]

Oh, I really like Frodo better too, but I didn't want the contest to be too one-way.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Well, for me this is a hard choice. But I will go for

++Frodo

First, his posts seem fishy. Second, his reaction to my suspicion proved... eh, sorry, wrong thread.

Legate, if I could rep you for this I would. Thanks for the laugh, anyway.

[Gollum the Great]

++Frodo

I like the Gaffer, but Frodo was, how shall I put it? Self-sacrificing.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Gollum the Great

I like the Gaffer, but Frodo was, how shall I put it? Self-sacrificing.

You hit the nail right on the head, Gollum. Substance wins over empty rhetoric everytime, at least in my book. The Gaffer, as good as he is, has never shown the same type of courage that Frodo has already showed us; besides, I have suspicions that the Gaffer is actually a Flip-Flopper.

++"Mad" Baggins jr.

It looks like the Ring Bearer has won by a landslide!

[skip spence]

Yes, The Gaffer was quite out of his league, despite his 'taters expertise.

Moving on we have a thrilling encounter between two trusty friends, none too keen on trespassers. In the blue corner we have Farmer Maggot, a very popular figure despite beating Frodo on occation, and not in a popularity contest. In the red corner there's the imposing Beleg Strongbow, the mighty captain of Doriath. He's most famous for his big bow, but is he trying to compensate for something?

Beleg Strongbow vs. Farmer Maggot

Vote for your favourite!

[Aganzir]

++ Beleg

Every time I read about him and Túrin, I feel like drawing or painting them, just to see if I'm capable of picturing such a close bond, such a friendship. Maggot is okay (besides his wife cooks mushrooms, mmmm!), and in another situation he might have got my vote, but right now I prefer tragedy and strong emotions to nice, plain life.
Besides isn't it just adorable how Beleg returned to Túrin time and time again although in the end it resulted in his death?

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

++ Beleg
Every time I read about him and Túrin, I feel like drawing or painting them, just to see if I'm capable of picturing such a close bond, such a friendship.

If I were a painter I wouldn't mind having a go at the scene when Turin realises what he's done, kneeling over his slain best friend in the rain and thunder with blood-stained hands and face.

Farmer Maggot is too cool for school though.

++Maggot

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Just a short note to the previous voting, if I may:

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

You hit the nail right on the head, Gollum. Substance wins over empty rhetoric everytime, at least in my book. The Gaffer, as good as he is, has never shown the same type of courage that Frodo has already showed us; besides, I have suspicions that the Gaffer is actually a Flip-Flopper.

Gaffer is actually a "common man" and he is a very good person. "Empty rhetoric" is no way for him, he is actually even "wiser" than Frodo, in the more "down-to-ground" way. Have you seen, for example, the Magnificent Seven? "The villagers won..." The heroes win, but that does not make any single one of those others, non-heroes, any less significant.

Similarly with Farmer Maggot, although he is the one who is far more "clever", in the sense, far more "aware" of the world around him than Gaffer. But Gaffer is a "man in his place", truly. Frodo's vocation was to destroy the Ring, Gaffer's vocation was to care of taters. Both important. Frodo was maybe more of a "moral figure", but then, Gaffer was never in the position - how could we know how he would have acted, had he been the Ringbearer? (When it comes to the moral choices - not to skills, his skills were with taters, not with the knowledge of Elven lore or sneaking past Orc guards - I would say he may have resisted the Ring for as long and carried it as far as Frodo.)

That's just to clear something about the first "duel" - and to make it clear what was not the reason for me to pick Frodo. Now, on to the second one:

++Beleg

Simply because mostly of what was already said here, and especially because I found all the complex of people around Túrin most intriguing lately (those who know my WW game "Werewolves among the Wolf-Men" know well). And, okay, I like the Elves more than Hobbits

[Lalwendë]

++Maggot

1. Because he's a Hobbit and they win over Elves every time.

2. Because his missus knows how to cook up bacon and shrooms.

3. Because he's a farmer and so I can relate to him better.

4. Because he has a good name.

[Gollum the Great]

++The Strongbow

Friend of Friends, as Tolkien puts it. I get the shivers reading that line. This elf is one of my favourites.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Just a short note to the previous voting, if I may:

Gaffer is actually a "common man" and he is a very good person. "Empty rhetoric" is no way for him, he is actually even "wiser" than Frodo, in the more "down-to-ground" way. Have you seen, for example, the Magnificent Seven? "The villagers won..." The heroes win, but that does not make any single one of those others, non-heroes, any less significant.

Not wishing to steer this vote any further afield, but as an actual character, Gaffer is by far more interesting and deep than Frodo. Certainly, Frodo is a more important character than poor old Gamgee, but then Gaffer is much more indicative of actual Hobbits than Frodo (Bilbo and Frodo had that odd and uncharacteristic Tookish strain that was antithetical to stolid Hobbitishness).

In addition, we see the true genius of Tolkien's writing and his love of dialect and language more so in the Gaffer than in Frodo. To me, the Gaffer is more 'real', if one can say that about fictional folk, and he is a wonderful personification of old, befuddled but wise folk we all know or have met at one time or another. One can love Gaffer like one would your own cranky grandfather; Frodo, however, is a bit too whiny and melancholy (in a stilted literary sense) for my taste, and it is Gafffer's son, Samwise, bred of the same tough stock and prone to uttering the same bits of folksy wisdom, that saves the quest.

So if, indeed, your poll is asking who is the more popular, rather than most important character, my vote would certainly be Gaffer over Frodo.

The same would go for the Beleg vs Maggot question. Obviously, Beleg is an important figure and his friendship and loyalty are unquestionably great; however, he is a literary cipher without personality or depth, whereas we get a true sense of who Farmer Maggot really is. Ergo, I would choose Maggot.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

So if, indeed, your poll is asking who is the more popular, rather than most important character, my vote would certainly be Gaffer over Frodo.

The same would go for the Beleg vs Maggot question. Obviously, Beleg is an important figure and his friendship and loyalty are unquestionably great; however, he is a literary cipher without personality or depth, whereas we get a true sense of who Farmer Maggot really is. Ergo, I would choose Maggot.

Your motivation behind a vote matters not to the result of the poll, so if you base your choice on how pretty the actor who played him/her in the movies is or on some high-brow theory of how well the character's heroic but vain struggles symbolises the pagan eschatological view that the destruction of man and all of his creations is inevitable, the end result is the same: one vote. I'd be interested to hear your reasoning though, be it humorous, serious or just whimsical.

I take it that your choice would be Maggot, Morth, in which case the score is tied at 3-3. It's anyone's game.

[mormegil]

++Beleg

[Eönwë]

++Farmer Maggot

Mmmm... Mushrooms.

[the phantom]

++Beleg

What more could you ask for than someone who is kind, forgiving, wise, a great warrior, and an even better friend?

[Lalwendë]

Does Skip have to post to move the fight on then, or what?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Beleg is cooler. . .not that I dislike Maggot even though evil rumors have him picked as an Evertonian.

I think Beleg could have died in a better way though. . . I know that the whole killed by a friend is very dramatic, but in my head it would be much better if him and Maglor died side by side fighting the sons of Feanor.
I don't know why, but keep picturing such a sceen.

Anyways if I want mushrooms picked I can do it my self, if I need orcs killed then I will call on Beleg! Ergo he is of much more use to me.

++Beleg

EDIT: I forgot to check about deadlines and such

(I see that Beleg already won. . .bah I will let the post stay)

[the phantom]

Oops. I didn't realize there was a deadline. Did Beleg win?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Oops. I didn't realize there was a deadline. Did Beleg win?

5 votes and you win, so Beleg won with your vote.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Not meaning to be petty, but it
must be ++Mim , praps Gollum
was right about nassty elvsees attacking
nice small peoples. And Pippin seemed to
get along nicely with the mean nassty hobbit.

[mormegil]

I see no problem in continuing without Skip...what would be fun *looks at some of our Downer artists* is to get some nice brackets. Tummy, here is an idea why don't we do our own version of March Madness here on the downs?

Anyway between Mim and Pippin

++Mim

Less a vote for Mim, while he is an interesting character, but more a vote against Pippin. Is there a worse hobbit in the whole world? I doubt it, he's mundane and predictable. He nearly destroys the whole point of the fellowship multiple times. The only real accomplishment he can claim is slaying a troll but first off who hasn't slain a troll? Also, his was more on accident than an actual feat of prowress and cunning.

[Gollum the Great]

I can't pick between the two up for vote right now. But I will say that:

Originally Posted by mormegil

Also, his was more on accident than an actual feat of prowress and cunning.

I think that just charging the Olog was courageous.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by morm

Tummy, here is an idea why don't we do our own version of March Madness here on the downs?

I will give that some thought. I'll write at the top of a blank page in my notebook "Middle Earth March Madness" so I remember.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by mormegil

I see no problem in continuing without Skip...what would be fun *looks at some of our Downer artists* is to get some nice brackets.

Neither do I and yes, brackets would be nice.

The choice between Mim and Pippin is tough. No, actually it isn't. Pippin is a little brat, isn't he - dangit he's almost 30 years old but still acts as if he's on a field trip with school, goofing around and learning nothing. Mim is the last of his kind, fortunately perhaps given his treacherous ways, but you can't help feeling sorry for the old bugger, can you? And in a way the outlaws had it coming, didn't they? Bad deeds lead to more bad deeds and all...

'nuff said, ++Mim

That makes it 3-0 to the Petty Dwarf. Is an upset on the tables?

[Nerwen]

++Pippin.

At least he's honest.

[Thinlómien]

Oh I knew I shouldn't miss a thread like this... I missed the good old survivor games and this reminds me of them. Well, just for the record, I would have voted Frodo (one of the most touching characters in the books, I love his pacifism and also, he has some absolutely brilliant lines - and actually, the more I read LotR, the more I like Frodo and the less I view him as a simple character) and Beleg (that guy is just cool and besides, hey, actually, now I know - like Frodo, he's an unbelievably gentle person without being "soft" or "weak", and that's something I love) too.

Ahem, anyway, now we're talking about Mîm and Pippin... wow, this is difficult. I mean, I dislike Mîm, he's pitiful and unpleasant but you can kind of understand him really, and I just love many those characters of Tolkien's that are more than just balck-and-white. On the other hand, the more I read LotR, the more I like Pippin (although I've always preferred Merry). Pippin, just like Frodo, is a very touching character - it's is beautiful to see how he grows as a person, and also, his friendship with Bergil and Beregond, as well as his sort of loyalty to Denethor are very beautiful things. And you can't deny he can be funny, although he can be annoying too (why the heck throw the stone to the well?!? ). Ah, I just can't vote yet. I'll have to think about this more.

And skip - this thread is so horrible. It makes me recall so very strongly how much I love Tolkien's work that I almost started crying in the school library and nowe I really feel like skipping my next lesson and going home to read LotR...

[Aganzir]

++ Mîm

I can't possibly not vote him, having once argued for two or three hours about whether he is good or not.
I would never call him pathetic - he wasn't. What would you do if you were attacked by a bunch of outlaws who dishonoured you, demanded you to give them your home, and killed your son? I can't help wondering how calmly Mîm took it and even grew to respect and like Túrin. I know for sure that I would have done much worse.
And when Beleg came, he was just terribly jealous, which is quite understandable.

Plus I like dwarves more than hobbits, but that's a side issue.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by mormegil

Also, his was more on accident than an actual feat of prowress and cunning.

Well, at least he showed the courage to actually fight him. You will notice that this particular feat alone shows the vast change that Pippin has made since going on his adventures with Frodo. I think we can give him some credit here, after all he was still in his "tweens".

Let's see here, Pippin has always been an adorable character to me (my little brother is just like him) and although he can be foolish, he can, at times, be very resourceful. After all I credit the escape of Merry and Pippin from the Uruk-Hai chiefly to Pippin: it was he who dropped his elven brooch for the Three Hunters to find and it was he who first cut his bonds off with the edge of a sword.

Mim, has always been an exception for me. I mainly defend Dwarves with a passion but with Mim I have difficulties doing. He may have had good reasons for hating Beleg, and even Turin, but Mim I would say is an evil Dwarf (Tolkien in the beginning drafted the Dwarf race as evil so this shouldn't be a surprise). I cannot vote for someone who had dealings with the enemy and caused such pain to those in his household. Hurin was right to slay him at Nargathrond...

This was a difficult choice, but I'm going with ++Fool of a Took for his ability to learn from mistakes and to see his character transform from that of a fool to wise young Hobbit.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Well, at least he showed the courage to actually fight him. You will notice that this particular feat alone shows the vast change that Pippin has made since going on his adventures with Frodo. I think we can give him some credit here, after all he was still in his "tweens".

But the whole time he was belly-aching and only wanted to be there to prove how courageous he supposedly was when in face he was a coward. He did not rush off to meet them, don't think of the movie, he waited and the only thing he did was hold up his sword and poach the kill that Aragorn was getting.

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Let's see here, Pippin has always been an adorable character to me (my little brother is just like him) and although he can be foolish, he can, at times, be very resourceful. After all I credit the escape of Merry and Pippin from the Uruk-Hai chiefly to Pippin: it was he who dropped his elven brooch for the Three Hunters to find and it was he who first cut his bonds off with the edge of a sword.

What an idiot Pippin was! To drop such a gift is wholly irresponsibly and shows the lack of sense. If he only understood what great trackers both Aragorn and Legolas were he would have known that there was no need to drop such a gift. Also, think of the litter factor, it is well documented that Pippin is the first litterer in all of Middle-earth. Up until then nobody even thought of littering...you should have seen the rubbish heaps that formed in Hobbiton after word of this dead was relayed to them by Pippin...he caused an epidemic himself.

You, sir, are a dwarf hater and only voted Pippin because Mim is a dwarf.

Incidentally I believe the voting for Pippin and Mim is over and Pippin is off to the gallows but I cannot resist a good rip at the old Pippin.

[Morthoron]

++ Mim

To me. in many respects he is reminiscent of Shylock in the Merchant of Venice, a tragic figure caught up in revenge and grief. He's more of a layered character than Pippin, and the side-history (or lack thereof) of the petty-dwarves is intriguing as well. Petty-dwarves...rather redundant.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

++Pippin

He makes me laugh (something I can use after the last few months), and I think he of all the LotR characters demonstrates the most accessible "humanity." He makes mistakes, he can be foolish and short-sighted, yet he can also summon courage even when his knees are quaking, and dignity. He is not servile, yet he can be humble. He needs to grow up a bit, but then, don't we all in one way or another?

[mormegil]

Next round...

Okay let me ask you this, is Sauron really a character. I mean what has he done lately?

The kind of character I like knows where to put his trust and power and in a ring...I mean it makes no sense. I can only imagine the thought process "Hmmmm I am evil and want total world domination, what to do? What to do? *snaps fingers* I know I'll make a ring. I'll pour all my power and malice on it..."

A ring!?!? Why not a mask or a sword or maybe even a sneaker. How easy are rings to lose.

++Tuor

Any relative of Turin is a friend of mine.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

++Sauron.

He's just misunderstood.

[Gollum the Great]

++Sauron

He's cooler. He can also subvert whole nations to his will.

[skip spence]

Oh, it's all over. Good win for Mim that, I didn't see that one coming.

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

++Pippin
He makes me laugh (something I can use after the last few months), and I think he of all the LotR characters demonstrates the most accessible "humanity." He makes mistakes, he can be foolish and short-sighted, yet he can also summon courage even when his knees are quaking, and dignity. He is not servile, yet he can be humble. He needs to grow up a bit, but then, don't we all in one way or another?

Not much love for Pippin on this board it seems and I'm glad someone is on his side. Alas, your were just a little too late as Morthoron drove the last nail into his coffin. First to five votes wins.

I've also an announcement to make. Morgoth has been sent into the void and can no longer participate in the tournament. He will be replaced by Maedhros, eldest son of Fëanor.