Tol-in-Gaurhoth LII: Star Crossed II: Together for Eternity

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

With Groin I have a problem of separating a possible blatant chauvinism out from a possible mischievous link to Legate in this game.

Nog I love you! Let's get married!

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Ok, my Downs clock right now says 10.29pm. How long til deadline? I'm confused.

About eight hours I think. We go by real time.

[Macalaure]

I'm rapidly losing my ability to think, so here's the last of mine for today:

I don't know what to do with Legate, but I'll give him the benefit of doubt for today. He admitted that he had not much against me and reconsidered his suspicion, but only pedalled back a little bit. It sounded somewhat honest.

Originally Posted by Legate

You were just behaving all the time along the lines "I am your friend, people of Congo"

Eh?


I'm afraid Legate and Aganzir have to share my benefit of doubt. There seems to have been a bit of a mutual misunderstanding.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Are you sure you didn't criticize me just because I said I'd actually prefer voting you?

Umm, yes?

Originally Posted by Lommy

One more point against Mac?

I don't know. Is it? You found it, you should know...

...but you decided to give your point in the form of a rhetorical question, and I think that's a rather wolvish way to suspect someone.

I was likely going to vote for you before, and that little thing just tipped the scales.

++Thinlómien


In the case I'm no longer alive tomorrow, look at the people flying under the radar more - especially Brinn and Eomer come to mind right now.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Ok, my Downs clock right now says 10.29pm. How long til deadline? I'm confused.

By your Downs clock, I think it would be 6.26am

edit: x-ed with this page

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Hey, wait, wait, I didn't get it probably in that case. My original thought was that there were (at least in the previous game) simply four or how many pairs of lovers, but in fact, it was more like that they were (technically) four teams of wolves by two, whose fates were entwined. Because otherwise, it has no sense to say that one of the lovers is an ordo and the other is a baddie, since they both pick a kill, and kill somebody, not? Or how is that? I don't get it.

You're right that technically they are four duettos of baddies. But remember that there is a difference in calling the other one innocent as s/he's the one the possible seer sees as an innocent.

Now was this a tactical trick by Legate or was he just innocently confused?

EDIT: X'd from Lalaith onwards...

[Eönwë]

Ok, I'm going now. I'll try to back by DL, but I'm not promising anything.
Since I have no idea then I'll just go randomly with:

++Legate

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Legate

Yes, well. But sure you don't mind if I raise my eyebrows and find you a little suspicious

I'm only offended by people suspecting me when I'm a wolf.

Originally Posted by Agan

I'm planning to vote soon and think I could go for Mac.

I should vote soon too. *sigh* I'm thinking about Mac or Eomer, or maybe even Rikae after all... but somehow, none of those choices feels right.


edit: xed with Mac, Nogrod and Eonwex2

[Eönwë]

I'll just leave with this message:


Hello to all you people on the other side of the Atlantic!

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Mac

I don't know. Is it? You found it, you should know...
...but you decided to give your point in the form of a rhetorical question, and I think that's a rather wolvish way to suspect someone.

So I'm evil because I'm unsure? Fishy logic...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

You're right that technically they are four duettos of baddies. But remember that there is a difference in calling the other one innocent as s/he's the one the possible seer sees as an innocent.

Aaah yes, okay, that makes sense then. But the question is: do we actually even have a Seer? I would presume so, but not much of a chance for him to survive for long, I'd say...

Anyway, in general, my thoughts on people:

Aganzir an ordo: vocal, hard-working, making sense. No problem with her.
Brinniel radaaaar!
Eomer he seems like an okay guy. If it's just a mask of Superman under which there is in fact a... Batman... is hard to say.
Eönwë hard to say
Fea makes sense, innocentish
Gollum nuzzing
Greenie seems innocent, and as far as I remember evil Greenies, she does not look like one.
Groin besides not having much of his own opinion to present, and that thing we mentioned, we'll see
Gwath ...
Kitanna I don't like her somewhat; there is this Mac-defense thing, at moments she has been better, but sometimes again not.
Lalaith nuzzing
Lommy slightly suspicious
Mac I am not really sure now, but I am still keeping an eye on him
McCaber ...
Nogrod I am not really sure, but he looks like usual ordo-ish Nogrod, except for some moments, when he seems a bit off-track to me. But nothing big in particular.
Rikae seems more innocentish to me than not
Sally could be either
Shasta ...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Nog I love you! Let's get married!

In an instant... wasn't that what we were here for in the first place?

Originally Posted by Eonwë

Since I have no idea then I'll just go randomly with

This always makes me soo uneasy!!!

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

So I'm evil because I'm unsure? Fishy logic...

Actually I think Mac had a valid point there. It's just so often that baddies ask rhetorical questions - while not real accusations, they leave a bit bad feeling about the person in question, and the one who first asked them can hide easily by saying "I just thought aloud, it's not my problem these people carried it on and lynched an innocent!"

I'm going to take a shower now and be back to vote then.

edit: xed with Leg & Nog

[Gwathagor]

What??? FIVE PAGES?!?! I thought Day One started tomorrow...

Great. Well...I guess I'd better start reading. I'll see you all....in a few hours.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

This always makes me soo uneasy!!!

What am I supposed to say...

Though no, actually, this did not make me uneasy... yet. Had he been doing it all the time, that would be something different... (although I would prefer to know some grounds for the vote, at least... at least a bit... sure he did not just roll a 19-sided dice)

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Actually I think Mac had a valid point there. It's just so often that baddies ask rhetorical questions - while not real accusations, they leave a bit bad feeling about the person in question, and the one who first asked them can hide easily by saying "I just thought aloud, it's not my problem these people carried it on and lynched an innocent!"

Well, maybe, but both you and Mac should know that I do have the habit of thinking aloud (including questions).

Originally Posted by Gwath

What??? FIVE PAGES?!?! I thought Day One started tomorrow...

Heehee, poor Gwathie. Nice to see you around.


edit: xed with Legate

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

What??? FIVE PAGES?!?! I thought Day One started tomorrow...
Great. Well...I guess I'd better start reading. I'll see you all....in a few hours.

Welcome to the Barrow Downs Werewolf!

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Or then let's lynch Gwath. He's always a good choice.

Har har.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Har har.

Now I would stop that if I were you; there's five pages in front of you and if you are going to stop like that by every post, you are not going to finish reading even the first page in these eight hours that remain till DL...

[Thinlómien]

I've got to go now.

I'm going to give Mac the benefit of doubt whether that's wise or not.

++Eomer

Because he has only posted once, joined a bandwagon-ish thing, said little and probably won't be coming back.

Not very innocentish, not to speak about being constructive.


edit: xed with Legate

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

In an instant... wasn't that what we were here for in the first place?

Yes. There are some people who claim we can't pair up if we didn't do it in the very beginning, but who's going to listen to them?

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Har har.

[Aganzir]

I think Lommy's vote is made with possibly the worst grounds thus far. Not that Eomer looked very innocent, but he definitely didn't look that suspicious either.

Although there had been some suspicion on Rikae, Eomer was the first to vote her. And so what if he's not coming back today?

He could have given some reasoning for his vote, but I wouldn't go as far as to call it "not innocentish".

I was fairly sure I'd vote for Mac but now I actually feel more like voting Lommy.

edit: I forgot to mention I'll hang around still for a short while now and cast my vote then

[Lalaith]

Right, it's bedtime for me.


I want to know what Legate's up to, his posts feel so odd, they aren't making sense to me at all. I also want to know what Agan is up to and I am getting more worried about Fea.
Then there are Groin and Sally, who worried me earlier. (Eonwe too, although he is now worrying me less.)

Well, I will go for
++LEGATE

[Aganzir]

++Lommy

Votes

Eomer: Rikae
Kitanna: Rikae (2)
Greenie: Groin
Mac: Lommy
Eönwë: Legate
Lommy: Eomer
Lalaith: Legate (2)
Agan: Lommy (2)

11 still to vote.

If I die, either by lynching or in the night, I hope you don't forget Lommy (if she's alive), or Mac, Rikae or Fea. Or Groin.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

I want to know what Legate's up to, his posts feel so odd, they aren't making sense to me at all. I also want to know what Agan is up to and I am getting more worried about Fea.

And care to explain what do you mean by "what is ***** up to"? What does it mean "his posts feel so odd"? I mean, what kind of a reasoning is that? "I am going to vote Lalaith. Her posts are yellow and taste of cinnamon." Sure you won't accept that kind of a reasoning???

EDIT: x-ed with Agan

[Lalaith]

All right, to be clearer: my suspicions are often directed at those who I feel are being confusing, possibly deliberately so, and for a purpose. Is that better?
Now I really must go to bed, I am tired and will start getting confused even more easily. If I am still here after toNight, I bid you au revoir and au demain, dear Lonely Hearts.

.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, I guess this is the time to vote for me. Hmm... I was thinking. And thinking. And thinking. And somehow fear that if I don't do one thing, I will end up dead. But then what if... I could as well vote Lalaith after her last outright rude vote for me, or Kitanna to try that Mac-theory by another means, and also because of her really suspicious vote. I don't feel like voting Mac that much anymore.

I don't want to vote Lommy, as I am afraid of a bandwagon. And okay, okay, also because I am afraid that she may be innocent after all. But what then? Of all the people she seems the best choice, unless I were to vote for some of those named above.

I could vote for one of the quiet ones just because of that. I could vote sally-happy-go-lucky. Now wouldn't that be a good choice?

It actually would. Whoever posts some two posts like that (no substance) is well enough suspicious to me, of course it is sally who does that often, but still, too much for slipping under the radar. But then, sally may yet show up before the DL... so it will be pretty rash to vote for her now. Let's see what she does tomorrow (if I am here still).

I am just horrible, am I? Okay. Kitanna. Hmh. Lommy. Hmh. I am going to toss a coin...

Darn. Tails. That's Kitanna. I just now recalled how Nog said that one learns which choice he'd prefer only after tossing the coin. Quite. Had there been heads, it would have been far easier for me to vote Lommy. But maybe that's just what I think now and it will be exactly the other way around.

But okay, whatever. Let's see. If I am alive, there are other Days to go. And mainly, I can't possibly think now for a counterpart for Lommy...

++Kitanna

Vote well, people, and hope to see you toMorrow.

[Gwathagor]

Ok, that was a LOT of WW to try to digest at a single go.

As far as I can tell, the most attention has been directed at Rikae, Mac, Thinlomien, Aganzir, and Legate. Of these, I initially found Mac most suspicious, because I agreed that his responses to Rikae really did seem jumpy. Of course, as was pointed out, this is not a sure sign of guilt, since innocents can often respond in a defensive or jumpy manner. I've done it before.

Well, I have a headache from reading too much. I'll take a break and try to come back with something more helpful later on.

[Gollum the Great]

Hmmm... I'd better think this over...

Legate, Eomer, Eonwe, Groin, Green, Sally, Gwath, Brinn, Kitanna, Mac, and Nogrod seem fairly innocent.

I am slightly wary (but not suspicious) of Rikae (her reasons for mistrusting Mac didn't have much by way of a foundation), Aganzir (too excited), Lommy (she always bears watching, but I have little say beyond that).

Lal and Fea-not sure and too tired to spend time evaluating.

Shasta and McCaber- Nothing to speak of.

[Gollum the Great]

I'm going to make vote soon.... and unless something happens to sway my choice I thinking of Agan.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Okay, I guess this is the time to vote for me.

Well, if you say so, although I don't find you all that suspicious...

Heh, there's nothing quite so convenient as going after someone who says she won't be back for a while, eh, Lommy?
I'm inclined to think Eomer was just attempting to stir the pot with an unexplained vote for a vocal player, but the way Kitanna jumped on it looks fairly nasty to me, though, and Agan's threat to go along, without an actual vote, looks perhaps worse. (It seems she's trying to keep things moving in that direction while avoiding any commitment herself).

Regarding whether people might slip in a discussion of rules (yep, I'm going back to that, since I didn't get a chance to say more earlier), yes, it does happen - I've seen it happen - but that possibility went right out the window when Fea mentioned it (unless we have some incredibly careless baddies). It probably never was that much of a chance to begin with, considering that we probably have baddies just as worried about hiding from each other as hiding from us, but the meta-meta discussion was fun while it lasted, anyway.

Macalaure has not made himself one whit less suspicious in my eyes. However, because of his new signature & heartwarming defense of me, I don't think I can bring myself to vote for him toDay.
I'm sure that everybody thinks I'm so cold and calculating that the above couldn't possibly be true, and that I'm just looking for an excuse to back out of voting for him...
and I'm also sure that someone is going to call the above explanation "jumpy". That's the trouble with playing this game so much, though - you can predict the direction discussions will take, and it's tempting to do so.
Fact is, I truly don't have the heart to vote for him for those reasons, and besides, I have other suspects (who may well all be evil), and it's probably wise to reserve my vote in case I need to save myself, in any event.

And, Agan, what "points"?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

All right, kids, I know it's early. I can hear it already, "You're going to bed at 9:52? That's practically sunset!" But I'm going to do some homework in bed and I have no inclination to get back out of bed to vote.

So...

I'm thinking-

Agan blipped for me by reacting so strongly to the idea of positing theories. Yeah, I know we're not going to get any facts, but we might at least have ended up with a better idea of possibilities than if we're all stumbling around without communicating. But then throughout the day she sort of quit blipping by maintaining her stance- so now it seems like she just legitimately thought it wasn't a profitable idea, not that she was really hiding anything.

Mac blipped my radar quite powerfully. But I think it's because I'm so paranoid he's going to slip my notice like the last game we were in. I'm willing to vote for him, I think. But I'm not sure on anything, really.

Nog seems innocent, and Lommy didn't set off any alarms. Eomer seems innocent as well, though if he's not more active tomorrow (if he lives through the night) I'll try to kill him off on principle: quiet players are a waste of village space. Rikae is blipping a bit, but it might just be reactionary to other people's suspicions and I'm not willing to vote until I'm sure.

Okay...


++MAC


because I'm sleepy and of everybody in the village thus far today, he's tweaked me out most.

[Gollum the Great]

May as well get this over with, though I've changed my mind.

++Lommy

I can't bring myself to trust her.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Argh, five pages to read. Must you really?

Lucky me, I have a chance to read because there's three hours to the deadline.

Hi guys.

[Brinniel]

Really, must you all be so talkative? I'm actually thankful for the silence because now I can post without x-ing with a gazillion people.

All Day I've been reading (or rather skimming) through the thread in between doing other things, but I didn't have time to get a word in edgewise. Even now I still have homework to do, but I'll procrastinate for the sake of WW

But geez, there's so many posts to review, I don't know if I'll be able to catch up on it all. And I always play so horribly on the first Day; I don't post much because I never know what to post...which is probably why wolves always kill me so early. But with all this talking, surely I've gotta have something to say.

Let me go back to reread and collect myself....

[Brinniel]

Voting Count (for the record):

Eomer: ++Rikae (Rikae 1)
Kitanna: ++Rikae (Rikae 2)
Greenie: ++Groin (Rikae 2, Groin 1)
Mac: ++Lommy (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1)
Eönwë: ++Legate (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1, Legate 1)
Lommy: ++Eomer (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1, Legate 1, Eomer 1)
Lalaith: ++Legate (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1, Legate 2, Eomer 1)
Aganzir: ++Lommy (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 2, Legate 2, Eomer 1)
Legate: ++Kitanna (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 2, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1)
Fea: ++Mac (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 2, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1, Mac 1)
Gollum: ++Lommy (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 3, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1, Mac 1)

Have not voted yet: Groin, Nogrod, Brinn, Sally, Shasta, Gwath, McCaber

Okay, there are so many players in this game and there's simply not enough time to evaluate them all. The voting is spread out enough as it is, so for toDay I think I will focus most of my attention on those who have already been voted for..

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

And care to explain what do you mean by "what is ***** up to"? What does it mean "his posts feel so odd"? I mean, what kind of a reasoning is that? "I am going to vote Lalaith. Her posts are yellow and taste of cinnamon." Sure you won't accept that kind of a reasoning???

I don't know, Legate...if Lalaith's posts actually tasted like cinnamon, I would become very suspicious indeed.

Still: intuition is as much a part of the game as logic, and always complements the latter.


So I thought I was going to vote for Macalaure, but I've discovered that only his very first couple of posts seem jumpy/defensive. His later posts don't, so I can't vote him in good conscience now. Better go read some more.

[Brinniel]

Rikae

#25
-Suspects Mac because 1) he's overconfident 2) Di wouldn't make them both ordos 3) she swore to get him lynched on Day 1

-Also comments on Lommy, Legate, and Eonwe

Okay, we know that part of that suspicion is joking...but is reason 2 included? Because I don't think that's a good reason to suspect anyone.

#35
-All of post is a response to Mac's previous post.

#36
-States that her suspicion towards Mac isn't entirely joking.

#44
-States that Mac tends to be jumpy regardless of role.

-Says she's okay with lynching quiet ones.

-Doesn't like Sally's rhetorical questions, but doesn't think it particularly suspicious.

#46
-Questions Aganzir's comment theorising about who the baddies are.

#49
-Comments on Fea's statement about people with roles accidentally spilling unknown information.

#54
-Thinks Mac, Aganzir, and Lommy are baddies.

#189
-About votes for her: Thinks Eomer was "stirring the pot," Kitanna's jump on it looked nasty, and Aganzir's threat looked worse.

-Comment that slips are possible, but probably won't happen now that Fea mentioned it.

-Still suspects Mac, but not sure she'll vote him. Says people will probably find her suspicious for that.

On the comments about the votes against her: A pretty typical response for anyone who's been voted for. Though let me note that I'm pretty sure Kitanna's vote x-posted with Eomer's.

Overall thoughts:

Rikae does seem to focus on Mac a whole lot, but that's nothing new. But who can blame her when she knows his playing style best...

Anyways, while I find that first post about Mac a bit odd, there's nothing that looks terribly suspicious about her to me.

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So far I have seen Kitanna defend Mac twice. Mac has been under pressure and Kitanna has really not stated any more elaborated reasons for her backing of him.

I haven't read a whole lot, just got home, but I saw this and thought I'd respond while I still have a chance. I just don't feel Mac is all that suspicious. I didn't see anything in his posts that pointed to him being a werelover, though depending on what has happened in the posts since I was on last could shift my opinion.

[Brinniel]

Groin

#27
-Banter about his promise to lynch Aganzir.

#31
-Compares Legate's behaviour to the previous game when he was a wolf.

I think Legate mentioned this, but remember he wasn't a wolf until his final Day.

#32
-States that Lommy's silliness is normal.

#43
-Says Legate is his usual self.

-Lommy is silly.

-Thinks Aganzir is trying to look like she's helpful, but her posts are full of petty arguments.

-No idea about Rikae.

Overall comments:

So far Groin hasn't said enough for me to form an opinion on him. He seems to be trying to add substance, but I would like to hear more.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Okay, I admit it, I took a timeout to watch a movie. I'm here now though, and have just read page 1.

*reads the rest, will form an opinion or two then*

I love this DL so much.

[Brinniel]

Lommy (has too many posts to analyse them all, so I'll only go over the highlights)

#28
-Thinks Aganzir looks rather innocent.

#33
-Comments that Mac seems a bit jumpy.

#42
-Doesn't think Mac's that suspicious.

-Call's Aganzir's comment about her speculation on gifteds jumpy.

#56
-Responds to Aganzir questioning her jumpy statement. Calls her defensive.

#81
-Analysis post- doesn't really have strong suspicions of anyone.

#88
-Says she's been a wolf so much lately, she's having trouble suspecting suspicious people. Needs to rewire her brain.

#134
-Doesn't like Mac's suspicions against her.

-Finds points against Groin and Kitanna interesting.

-Toys with the possibility of Mac and Aganzir as lovers.

#148
-Thinks of Fea and Mac and Legate and Aganzir as possible lovers.

-Considers voting for Eomer.

-Thinks Greenie looks innocent.

#166
-Considers voting Mac, Eomer, or Rikae.

#178
-votes Eomer for being a submarine

Overall comments:

Out of all her posts toDay, only two were lengthy. Most were one or two lines. Perhaps I'm just imagining things, but I remember her giving longer posts with more substance. I usual find her posts impossible to analyse because they have so much info. Lommy does a lot of flip-flopping; she can't seem to make up her mind about Mac or Aganzir. I don't really like her vote for Eomer...nothing looks too strange about his vote, at least not for Day One. Too often innocents have been lynched because they came, voted, and left.