What won't be in The Hobbit

[Makar]

It has been discussed here before, many times, and will be brought up again - what parts of the Hobbit will and will not make the cut? Are we assuming the Hobbit will be 3 plus hours long and that additional material - White Council, etc - will be moved over into the second film as a flashback?

Regardless, a good rule of thumb is to look at what was left out of the cartoons and the radio drama. For instance, in the case of LotR, Bombadil and the Barrow Wights did not make it into either and were subsequently cut out of Jackson's films. Jackson also borrowed the idea of a stand-in for Glorfindel from Bakshi, although the former used Arwen, the latter, Legolas. There is a gap between the Bakshi and Rankin-Bass cartoons, so one cannot say that the Paths of the Dead were left out intentionally. The Pukelmen did not make the cartoon or the radio drama and thus were not in the live action film. Scouring of the Shire was not in the cartoon or the live action, but was in the drama.

TH is a tougher pickle. It is a shorter story and therefore there would be less to cut in a three hour movie. In fact, in the BBC radio production, the plot remains greatly intact. The cartoon keeps the major events, as well. One exception is Beorn. This has been mentioned here as the most likely thing to be cut. There are two reasons 1) He has a bunch of helper animals that will seem out of place with the Jackson brand 2) He would be easy to edit out - simply have the eagles drop everyone off at the edge of Mirkwook ala Rankin-Bass and cut out the Bolg vs Beorn, inserting a Dwarf, Elf, or Man of Dale for him in the slaying of Bolg. Another character likely to go is the Master of Lake Town. Less likely to be cut, although they could do it (don't forget what happened to Imrahil) could be Dain.

Additionally, there is the question of what will talk and what won't. Here we have trolls, wargs, eagles, and spiders to consider.

Finally, one might consider the length of the opening scene, i.e., the tea party, which could surpass 30min in length.

I know, tl;dr. But what does /thee/ think?

[Tuor in Gondolin]

"Common wisdom" in the LOTR movies was that
the movies wouldn't go beyond 2 1/2 hours soell the introduction
theaters could have more showings, but PJ did
surpass that. I'd hope for 3 hours but 2 1/4 to 2 1/2
seems more likely. Given how well the introduction to FOTR
worked, what about some sort of intro to give the general
middle earth situation at the time? Essentially Erebor
and Rhovannion, with particular attention to Mirkwood in
general and Dol Guldur in particular.

[ArathornJax]

Well, going by the adaptation I think you'll see An Expected Party, then the Trolls, a quickie in Rivendell, the confrontation between the Goblins and Bilbo and Gollum. Next, the Eagles taking them to the edge of Mirkwood, the forest path and the spider confrontation, followed by Barrel out of Bonds and Laketown, then the Mountain, Smaug, Bilbo and Smaug, Smaug's death, the gathering of clouds and the Battle of Five Armies. A quick return trip similar to Frodo's return to the Shire after ROTK and Mt. Doom. Beorn could be left out or given a mention to and thus show up for the Battle. Or the Eagles take them to the Carrock and they meet the Bear/Man and he gives them the ponies to borrow. However, I don't think we'll see time at Beorn, just a mention and then he'll show up at the Battle (or like I said an introduction that is quick but not long like in the book).

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by ArathornJax

Well, going by the adaptation I think you'll see An Expected Party, then the Trolls, a quickie in Rivendell, the confrontation between the Goblins and Bilbo and Gollum. Next, the Eagles taking them to the edge of Mirkwood, the forest path and the spider confrontation, followed by Barrel out of Bonds and Laketown, then the Mountain, Smaug, Bilbo and Smaug, Smaug's death, the gathering of clouds and the Battle of Five Armies. A quick return trip similar to Frodo's return to the Shire after ROTK and Mt. Doom. Beorn could be left out or given a mention to and thus show up for the Battle. Or the Eagles take them to the Carrock and they meet the Bear/Man and he gives them the ponies to borrow. However, I don't think we'll see time at Beorn, just a mention and then he'll show up at the Battle (or like I said an introduction that is quick but not long like in the book).

That's sounds like a probable outline. The problem is, if you follow the pacing of what you have schematized, even that might be too long for a three-hour movie. Even so, you have provided a punchline for every act:

1) The unexpected party (a little levity to start off)
2) Trolls
3) Rivendell (perhaps giving an enema to Elrond so he's a little looser than in LotR)
4) Goblins in the Mistys
5) Gollum
6) Eagles
7) Spiders
8) The barrels (not much lingering on Thranduil, I suppose)
9) Laketown (briefly, briefly...perhaps showing Bard down on his luck and friendless...sort of a poor man's Aragorn)
10) Erebor and Smaug
11) Smaug's death (with the quick revelation that Bard is descended from Lord Girion)
12) A brief bit of tension between Dwarves and Elves/Men -- or not, just forget the whole Dwarf vs Elf thing, and have Dain's Folk act as the cavalry for...
13) The wargs, orcs and bats (with the eagles again)
14) Then an eagle-ride back to the Shire (hey, we've run out of time and budget).

Phew! You'll be sweating and suffering from eye strain after that rollercoaster ride of compressed plot! It will be like watching faces on a passing subway train: Hey, there goes Gandalf! Ummm...was that Elrond? Look, it's a bear! Where? Errr...too late, they're already in Mirkwood. Perhaps Bilbo will perform the Riddles in the Dark portion of the story as he jogs along in the cavern.

Sad to say, I fear there will be a few casualties (Beorn among them) in order to bring the film in on time. I think the trolls will remain (they are mentioned in the RotK film). The Unexpected Party will merely be the sight gag of separate dwarves knocking each in turn at Bilbo's door (they might keep the 'Chip the Plates' song, but the scene will have only the most germane plot points -- the map, Erebor and Smaug). I would think Gollum's part will be sacrosanct, and of course the Battle of Five Armies (got to have those hordes of CG orcs splilling over Erebor). I don't think they could have the eagles at the battle without the eagles saving Gandalf and company earlier, could they?

Bah! I've given myself a headache.

P.S. I am already certain they'll add another 30 minutes of scenes into an extended DVD, so that's where you'll get to see Beorn and whatever else they've omitted. Hey, it's a guaranteed moneymaking proposition.

[Sauron the White]

The visual payoff of Beorn killing Bolg and carrying Thorin off the field of battle is way too good for any filmmaker to pass up. I expect it will be in the film and would be surprised to see it cut. I do suspect that based on the animals from both Narnia and Compass, Beorn will not be a 100% bear but more of a werebear with some human and some fantastical features mixed in with his bear visage.


and this from a recent Del Toro interview

I think you should take a gander at my post about smaug on the FRONT PAGE article discussion, but your point is taken up to a point- The marketing is down the line and the elements in the movie will be treated -tonally- in a different way than you may expect. The Mirkwood episode is going to be pretty striking and the Goblin army alone will be a feast and the Wargs- oh, man- Beorin turning, etc, etc. I think it will be fine...

Looks like Beorn is in.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

And given the North American audience, what
will "attercop" and "tomnoddy" be repalced by
as insults to the spiders?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin

And given the North American audience, what will "attercop" and "tomnoddy" be replaced by as insults to the spiders?

Maybe nothing... after all, The Hobbit is a British work, and despite their imperfect success in conveying that, Jackson & Co. did at least make an effort in the LotR films to have British-sounding Hobbits, at least.

EDIT: After all, though the North American market is huge, this film is definitely going to play on the global stage, as acknowledged in the past with the London premieres.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

after all, The Hobbit is a British work,

An English work, surely

[Tuor in Gondolin]

I agree the insults SHOULD stay yhe same, but given
Hollywood mentality I have my doubts. After all, the
Australian accents in the first Mad Max movie were
all "Americanized" (except for Braveheart, of course).

[Girl in the Grass]

I don't think the dwarves' song will make it in, or any of the songs for that matter. As for Riddles in the Dark, I have a feeling it will be cut out entirely, with Bilbo just finding the ring, maybe a short confrontation with Gollum, and then getting out of the caves. Beorn's helper animals are probably going to be cut as well. I have a sneaky feeling the dungeons of Mirkwood are going to go the way of Tom Bombadil...

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by davem

An English work, surely

Ha ha. An important distinction.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin

Given how well the introduction to FOTR
worked, what about some sort of intro to give the general
middle earth situation at the time?

The film-makers might be concerned about making The Hobbit too much of a LOTR-movie clone by starting off with a Fellowship-esque introduction. Maybe. Though, if they really are planning on making two films, an introduction will probably be necessary given the scope of the material covered.

I hope Beorn does not get cut, because I think he would translate very well as an on-screen character. I imagine he'd be rather popular. But, he isn't really a CRUCIAL part of the plot, so he may very well get the axe.

Ha ha. I just remembered the Hildebrandt picture of Beorn as I wrote that last line.

[Morwen]

Originally Posted by Girl in the Grass

I don't think the dwarves' song will make it in, or any of the songs for that matter. As for Riddles in the Dark, I have a feeling it will be cut out entirely, with Bilbo just finding the ring, maybe a short confrontation with Gollum, and then getting out of the caves. Beorn's helper animals are probably going to be cut as well. I have a sneaky feeling the dungeons of Mirkwood are going to go the way of Tom Bombadil...

With respect to the Riddles in the Dark scene, I suppose that it might be shortened but not cut entirely. If you are going to have Gollum in the movie you might as well do his big scene. I would hope that they would want to portray some version of riddle game so that Bilbo can get to ask his famous non - riddle "what have I got in my pocket?" and Gollum will later get to voice his menacing query "What has its gots in its pockets?"

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Ha ha. An important distinction.

You know... I wasn't going to bother defending myself, since Davem's preference (and indeed the general English preference) to distinguish the English from the general British is understandable enough to one who would distinguish Canadian from the more general North American.

However, I feel prompted enough to point out that the distinction I was making was that, although The Hobbit may be most likely to have its largest market in North America, it is not a work that belongs to that culture. Perhaps I should have been more specific and said "English"... but my point might have been made better to have gone the other way and said "European" or "Old World". The point was more that The Hobbit was a non-North American work than that it was specifically any other sort, though, of course, it does actually have to be some other sort in order to be at all and not be North American, and in this case is English, but as a broader term, British does encompass English, though it is not so specific a term.

~Formendacil the disgruntled

[Makar]

Originally Posted by Girl in the Grass

I don't think the dwarves' song will make it in, or any of the songs for that matter. As for Riddles in the Dark, I have a feeling it will be cut out entirely, with Bilbo just finding the ring, maybe a short confrontation with Gollum, and then getting out of the caves. Beorn's helper animals are probably going to be cut as well. I have a sneaky feeling the dungeons of Mirkwood are going to go the way of Tom Bombadil...

I agree with those who say that Riddles will feature prominently. Along with the Shire and Rivendell, it is one of the links to LotR. Dungeons of Mirkwood are out? Seems unlikely, as this is the link to the Elves at the Battle of the Five Armies as well as Bilbo's burglar training

[William Cloud Hicklin]

The Pukelmen did not make the cartoon or the radio drama and thus were not in the live action film.

Yes they were. They weren't mentioned in dialogue, but they were there, sitting at the road-turnings.

And del Toro has said (someplace) how wonderful he thinks the Riddle chapter is.

[Makar]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Yes they were. They weren't mentioned in dialogue, but they were there, sitting at the road-turnings.

And del Toro has said (someplace) how wonderful he thinks the Riddle chapter is.

Help me out here. They are in the Rankin-Bass RotK?

[Gwathagor]

No, the New Line version.

[Makar]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

No, the New Line version.

Appy polly loggies. I incorrectly said Pukel-men, when I indeed should have referred to Woses or Druedain under Ghan-buri-ghan and the two of you jumped on the fact that Jackson did include the statues of the Pukel-men, who are thought to be ancestors of the group which I intended to discuss. Thanks, guys.

[Makar]

How about the stone giants? In the graphic novel of the Hobbit and the video game, they are portrayed. Doubtless they have no place in the land of PJ.

[Sauron the White]

You could do the Giants causing the storm and make it realistic if you showed them as part of clouds, tricks of lighting and lightning, that are more in the mind of the viewer than 100% actual giant throwing boulders around.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

And how will Gollum be integrated in movie?
Perhaps Gollum reliving in his mind his coming
to the Misty Mountains as he hears Bilbo
coming to his lake (ala the extended dvd).
And the movie could end with Gollum coming out
of the mountains and start searching for the
precious (and even seeing Gandalf and Bilbo
afar off returning to Erebor).

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Makar

How about the stone giants? In the graphic novel of the Hobbit and the video game, they are portrayed. Doubtless they have no place in the land of PJ.

Unless it was Giants who attempted to thwart The Fellowship as they traveled through Caradhras. Mind you, that wouldn't be PJ's world, but you get the point.

[Mithalwen]

I just hope we are spared endless cameos of the Jackson children

I doubt that they will lose the Master of Laketown because it is such a wonderful cameo for a big name actor - and given that it would only require a couple of scenes just about any name htey wanted could probably fit it in to their schedule. I can think of about 20 actors who could do it wonderfully - not the same way necessarily but who in their own way could really bring this character to life.