Evil Maia - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Castamir · 12-18-2003, 02:56 PM

Who do you think was more evil-Ungoliant or Thuringwethil?

Estelyn Telcontar · 12-18-2003, 03:21 PM

I'm moving this thread to join the opinion topics on the Novices and Newcomers forum - please read and post there.

Lord Elrond · 12-19-2003, 09:37 AM

Ungoliant nearly overcame Melkor, if it wasn't for the help of the Balrogs she might have. She also consumed many of the great jewels of Feanors kindred as well as sucking out the life of the two trees which is probably one of the most evil things done in the first age. what did Thuringwethil do that was as evil as these things?

lathspell · 12-19-2003, 11:29 AM

Hey people,

I0ve always thought about this as beyond good and evil. There are ays to be good or to be evil. In case of Sauron: he is evil and fights the 'good'. Eomer, Aragorn, Gandalf etc.: They are the good guys and fight evil.
Yet there is Ungoliant and I deem him more evil than any other for he fights both good and evil, just like Shelob, his offspring!! In this case his counterpart would be the one that doesn't fight either good or evil and I think that would be best personified by Bombadil!

That's my view on things.
greetings,
lathspell

Castamir · 12-19-2003, 12:31 PM

Just to let you know lathspell, Ungoliant is female

Meoshi · 12-19-2003, 05:53 PM

Thuringwethil was just a gofer. She carried messages for Sauron, unquestioningly loyal to him. I seriously doubt she did anything evil worth noting, and that was done was by Sauron's orders. In fact, she even did some good (inadvertantly).

Ungoliant, however, was her own boss. Not only that, she was a machine of destruction. She consumed the Two Trees and the gems of the Noldor, causing the Noldor to revolt. Without her, Ea would be a much happier place.

lathspell · 12-20-2003, 10:07 AM

Yes, indeed Castamir! It would just a figure of speech but you are right, of course!

12-21-2003, 04:06 PM

In my eyes, Ungoliant was one of the most evil - when not the most evil - creature that ever walked on Middle-Earth. As written above, Thuringwethil was but a messenger. I do not think one can compare her to the lust and malice of Ungoliant, who definitely serves no one but herself (this is notable, because in Valaquenta, Tolkien ranks Sauron inferior to Melkor, because the former in a first time was only a servant to the latter and did not pursue aims of his own). Killing herself represents IMHO a supreme evilness, and I wonder if Ungoliant should not be ranked first among the evil creatures of Tolkien's world.
Greetings,

12-18-2003, 02:56 PM	#1
Castamir Pile O'Bones Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gondor Posts: 18	Evil Maia Who do you think was more evil-Ungoliant or Thuringwethil?

12-18-2003, 03:21 PM	#2
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	I'm moving this thread to join the opinion topics on the Novices and Newcomers forum - please read and post there. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

12-19-2003, 09:37 AM	#3
Lord Elrond Animated Skeleton Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Buffalo Posts: 38	Ungoliant nearly overcame Melkor, if it wasn't for the help of the Balrogs she might have. She also consumed many of the great jewels of Feanors kindred as well as sucking out the life of the two trees which is probably one of the most evil things done in the first age. what did Thuringwethil do that was as evil as these things? __________________ "May the blessing of Elves, Men, and other free peoples go with you"

12-19-2003, 11:29 AM	#4
lathspell Regenerating Ringkeeper Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 757	Hey people, I0ve always thought about this as beyond good and evil. There are ays to be good or to be evil. In case of Sauron: he is evil and fights the 'good'. Eomer, Aragorn, Gandalf etc.: They are the good guys and fight evil. Yet there is Ungoliant and I deem him more evil than any other for he fights both good and evil, just like Shelob, his offspring!! In this case his counterpart would be the one that doesn't fight either good or evil and I think that would be best personified by Bombadil! That's my view on things. greetings, lathspell __________________ 'You?' cried Frodo. 'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'

12-20-2003, 10:07 AM	#7
lathspell Regenerating Ringkeeper Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 757	Yes, indeed Castamir! It would just a figure of speech but you are right, of course! __________________ 'You?' cried Frodo. 'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'

12-19-2003, 12:31 PM	#5
Castamir Pile O'Bones Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gondor Posts: 18	Just to let you know lathspell, Ungoliant is female

12-19-2003, 05:53 PM	#6
Meoshi Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Atop the peak of Kalormë Posts: 163	Thuringwethil was just a gofer. She carried messages for Sauron, unquestioningly loyal to him. I seriously doubt she did anything evil worth noting, and that was done was by Sauron's orders. In fact, she even did some good (inadvertantly). Ungoliant, however, was her own boss. Not only that, she was a machine of destruction. She consumed the Two Trees and the gems of the Noldor, causing the Noldor to revolt. Without her, Ea would be a much happier place.

12-21-2003, 04:06 PM	#8
Silent Watcher Guest Posts: n/a	In my eyes, Ungoliant was one of the most evil - when not the most evil - creature that ever walked on Middle-Earth. As written above, Thuringwethil was but a messenger. I do not think one can compare her to the lust and malice of Ungoliant, who definitely serves no one but herself (this is notable, because in Valaquenta, Tolkien ranks Sauron inferior to Melkor, because the former in a first time was only a servant to the latter and did not pursue aims of his own). Killing herself represents IMHO a supreme evilness, and I wonder if Ungoliant should not be ranked first among the evil creatures of Tolkien's world. Greetings,