The most evil person.... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Ghostblade · 12-17-2003, 09:08 AM

Hello all! I was sitting here eating Pasta when I got an idea.. Who do you think is the most evil character in the book and/or movie.
[img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

Finwe · 12-17-2003, 10:37 AM

I personally think that Sam is the most evil character in the books and the movies. Someone who serves another so well and so purely is, in my opinion, EVIL to the core!!!! Besides, we all know why he asked for a "nice, shiny dagger" in Lothlorien. Do we not? [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

BTW, Pasta is rather conducive to learning. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

The Only Real Estel · 12-17-2003, 11:42 AM

Depends on whether you're talking the 3 main books or if you're saying in all of the lotr-realted books that Tolkien wrote.

Phervasaion · 12-17-2003, 12:08 PM

If its Lotr i'd probably say that it was Sauron who is the most evil charector. Saruman is evil put not pure evil in my opinion and alot of the other bad charectors arnt pure evil either.

Gashberz · 12-17-2003, 12:33 PM

SMAUG!!!!!! HE WAS ROTTEN!! But you do have a good point on Sam. its always the quiet "nice" people who end up ruling the world! [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

**The Saucepan Man** · 12-17-2003, 03:03 PM

Well, since Morgoth was the source of evil in Eä, I'd say it was pretty much a no brainer.

And, before you point out that he wasn't a character in LotR, it was his evil which corrupted Sauron, "created" Orcs, Dragons and the like, and tainted Arda with evil. There is no evil in Middle-earth but that it derives its source in him.

Phervasaion · 12-17-2003, 03:22 PM

Quote:

And, before you point out that he wasn't a character in LotR, it was his evil which corrupted Sauron, "created" Orcs, Dragons and the like, and tainted Arda with evil. There is no evil in Middle-earth but that it derives its source in him.

Yes you have a point there saucepan man. Sauron was only a luitanant to Morgoth. If i had to chooce who was most evil between Morgoth and Sauron i would definately choose Morgoth.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 12-18-2003, 12:45 PM

I have never called Melkor a 'person'.

Most evil person was probably Ulfang, who betrayed the Eldar and fought for Melkor. Way more evil than Bill Ferny I think.

Castamir · 12-18-2003, 02:41 PM

Hmmm most evil person? I think it would have to be Morgorth, although i might possibly choose Ungoliant.

Ghostblade · 12-18-2003, 05:59 PM

sorry if I made this unclear all... what i meant was who you think in everything that tolkien wrote about middle-earth movie or book. :evil :evil :evil

Tar-Alcarin · 12-18-2003, 06:42 PM

Melkor is by far the most evil of all people in middle-earth. I mean, the guy took elves, tortured them and mutilated them in to orcs. Who besides Melkor could sluaghter a peace loving being just to make his own race. I mean suaron is evil and all, but who taught him his evil ways: MELKOR did.
But in the movies, legolas is. I mean that little twit is the only reason my sister and her friends like LoTR. She asked me if Orlando Bloom was mentioned at all in the books. Not legolas, but Orlando BLoom. Now that is evil.

Lhunardawen · 12-19-2003, 01:26 AM

Quote:

I have never called Melkor a 'person'.

You are right, Eomer. No person could ever be able to sing differently (if you know what I mean) in the Ainulindale.

This is not the Movies forum. -Sharkû

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 7:03 AM December 19, 2003: Message edited by: Sharkû ]

***Sharkû*** · 12-19-2003, 06:05 AM

Please discuss who you think the most evil person in the Movies is in the Movies forum. Ignore what the topic starter said; this forum is for book discussions.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 12-19-2003, 09:31 AM

If we are talking about all beings and not just people then I think that everyone would say Melkor.

Meoshi · 12-19-2003, 05:55 PM

Glaurung. If you read his segment of the Silmarillion, you'll see that he was an utter creep. Maybe not as evil as his boss, but he's up there.

Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar · 12-20-2003, 10:46 AM

Quote:

If we are talking about all beings and not just people then I think that everyone would say Melkor.

Yes, this is true, but I am assuming it means 'person', ie man, elf, dwarf, ent, orc, troll, dragon, ect.
If I am correct, I say that the most evil PERSON is saruman. I know he is not really a person, but i think he is elvish/hamanish enough to count, while Morgoth and sauron are not. (throws reason out the window). OK, i admit it. I just think saruman is really, REALLY evil. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

Rasputin · 12-20-2003, 06:25 PM

i'd say shelob. *shiver* gives me the creeps. but then again the ungoliath is the same thing....just like a million times bigger and more powerful.

Elrond of Rivendell · 12-21-2003, 02:08 PM

yeah ... I would agree with that Ungoliant-idea. When I first read The Silmarillion, Morgoth almost "disappeared" compared to this huge monster. IMHO, a creature who has such a great lust that it is ready to eat herself up, is extremely evil. Another point "for" Ungoliant: Morgoth alone wasn't able to overcome her. So Ungoliant definitely is very powerful and entirely evil.
Greeting,
EfR

Finwe · 12-21-2003, 02:10 PM

Hmm... I think I'd consider Morgoth to be the most evil person in Middle-earth. Why he is, is fairly self-explanatory, since he alone had the audacity to actually corrupt a race created by Iluvatar, for his own dastardly purposes.

Feanor of the Peredhil · 12-21-2003, 02:12 PM

Ye olde list of evilness:

Dwarf: Mim

Hobbit: Ted Sandyman

Human: The Witch King (so he's not really human anymore... who cares?)

Elf: Eol

Maiar: Sauron the Deciever

Valar: Melkor Morgoth

Non-Humanoid: Ungoliant

At least, in my humble opinion. The MOST evil award definately goes to Morgoth.

Finwe · 12-21-2003, 02:26 PM

I'm disinclined to acquiesce to your proposal of Eol the Dark Elf as being the most suitable Elf for the title of "Most Evil..." I propose that said Dark Elf's son, Maeglin, is much more suitable for the title, having fallen incestuously in love with his cousin, having betrayed the city of Gondolin to the Dark Lord Morgoth, and having attempted to murder his nephew Earendil.

[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 12-21-2003, 04:40 PM

There is no way that a Dragon can be referred to as being a person. But since the topic starter has already made it clear that it is not just people we are discussing, this minor quibble should not be discussed further.

Arothir · 12-22-2003, 10:44 AM

For evil elves, look no farther! Everyone knows any Orc could fit the title of most evil elf! Don't start an orc debate! Of course Melkor (not Morgoth) is the most evil thing ever!

Tar-Alcarin · 12-22-2003, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Maeglin, is much more suitable for the title, having fallen incestuously in love with his cousin, having betrayed the city of Gondolin to the Dark Lord Morgoth, and having attempted to murder his nephew Earendil.

Aman to that. Maeglin is the most evil elf, he gave the position of his own city away to morgoth, because of that countless noldorians died and fell in love with his cousin! HOw evil is that. Now Eol granted did kill his wife, but that is nothing compared to the pain and suffering Maeglin caused.
And as for most evil Man: That goes to Ulfang the Eastering. Becuase of him the Unnumbered Tears was lost. He turned against his human and elvish brethrin and slaughter them all.

Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar · 12-22-2003, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Aman to that. Maeglin is the most evil elf, he gave the position of his own city away to morgoth, because of that countless noldorians died and fell in love with his cousin! HOw evil is that. Now Eol granted did kill his wife, but that is nothing compared to the pain and suffering Maeglin caused.

Well, are orcs elves? [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Even if they were, it is possible that Maeglin was more evil than any orc, because he was able to somewhat decieve people, and make them think he was good. So, is hidden or revealed evil better?

Dragon Elf odin Ragnorock · 12-22-2003, 06:31 PM

I would have to say the most evil person in the books is Gollum because he gave Frodo up to shelob and he is over consumed with the ring

Elrond of Rivendell · 12-22-2003, 06:43 PM

I wouldn't depict Gollum as entirely evil. Anyway, I always hoped (until I finished reading LotR for the first time) that he could become Smeagol again. But still, Gollum's whole evil behaviour (his treason, etc.) is due to the Ring, so if Gollum is evil, the Ring is it even more, not to speak of its maker Sauron, who was after all only a follower of Morgoth.
Greetings,
EfR

Lord of Angmar · 12-23-2003, 04:26 PM

Well for starters, the most evil "person" in Middle-earth is Morgoth, followed closely by Sauron.

As for the side-debate about the most evil Elf, I have to second (or third or fourth) Finwe's proposal of Maeglin. He gives me the creeps.

Quote:

Aman to that. (Tar-Alcarin)

Pun intended? [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

Cheers,
Angmar

Tar-Alcarin · 12-24-2003, 12:52 PM

Quote:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aman to that. (Tar-Alcarin)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pun intended?

Of course [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 12-24-2003, 02:27 PM

Do the quotation marks indicate that the "person"s are not actually persons?

Lord of Angmar · 12-30-2003, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Do the quotation marks indicate that the "person"s are not actually persons?

No, it just seems strange calling Morgoth Bauglir, the fallen Vala and Ainu, a "person." I don't know why. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Cheers,
Angmar

Laitoste · 01-01-2004, 09:14 PM

This is going waayy back to the top of the thread (and I'm sorry that I don't know how to quote things [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] ). I'm one of the quiet ones. Gashberz, how could you even think that we want to take over the world? At least, I don't think we do...I do have a tendency to set off the security devices at the airport...hee hee hee [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] . (just kidding with the evilness...JUST KIDDING!)

Anyway, I'm not going to restate Morogth or Sauron, they're obvious enough, but I think that Feanor and sons are evil. I always hated them. (Weel, come to think of it, not as evil as Maeglin, but a lot of Middle-Earth's torment was their fault.) Nasty elves!

Lord of Angmar · 01-02-2004, 01:22 PM

Feanor? Evil? Well, he could easily be construed that way based on his actions, I suppose. I myself would describe him as "misguided and insane." [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

12-17-2003, 09:08 AM	#1
Ghostblade Pile O'Bones Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Varies Posts: 11	The most evil person.... Hello all! I was sitting here eating Pasta when I got an idea.. Who do you think is the most evil character in the book and/or movie. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img] __________________ On swift wings death arrives and I am its emissary. -Ghostblade

12-17-2003, 10:37 AM	#2
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	I personally think that Sam is the most evil character in the books and the movies. Someone who serves another so well and so purely is, in my opinion, EVIL to the core!!!! Besides, we all know why he asked for a "nice, shiny dagger" in Lothlorien. Do we not? [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] BTW, Pasta is rather conducive to learning. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

12-17-2003, 12:08 PM	#4
Phervasaion Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The wilderness of Middle-Earth Posts: 306	If its Lotr i'd probably say that it was Sauron who is the most evil charector. Saruman is evil put not pure evil in my opinion and alot of the other bad charectors arnt pure evil either. __________________ Phervasaion

12-17-2003, 12:33 PM	#5
Gashberz Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: San Diego, U.S.A Posts: 57	SMAUG!!!!!! HE WAS ROTTEN!! But you do have a good point on Sam. its always the quiet "nice" people who end up ruling the world! [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] __________________ "We are the fighting Uruk-hai! We slew the great warrior. We took the prisoners. We are the servants of Saruman the Wise, the White Hand: the Hand that gives us man´s flesh to eat!" -Uglúk

12-17-2003, 03:03 PM	#6
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	Well, since Morgoth was the source of evil in Eä, I'd say it was pretty much a no brainer. And, before you point out that he wasn't a character in LotR, it was his evil which corrupted Sauron, "created" Orcs, Dragons and the like, and tainted Arda with evil. There is no evil in Middle-earth but that it derives its source in him. __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

12-17-2003, 11:42 AM	#3
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	Depends on whether you're talking the 3 main books or if you're saying in all of the lotr-realted books that Tolkien wrote.

12-18-2003, 12:45 PM	#8
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	I have never called Melkor a 'person'. Most evil person was probably Ulfang, who betrayed the Eldar and fought for Melkor. Way more evil than Bill Ferny I think. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

12-18-2003, 02:41 PM	#9
Castamir Pile O'Bones Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gondor Posts: 18	Hmmm most evil person? I think it would have to be Morgorth, although i might possibly choose Ungoliant.

12-18-2003, 05:59 PM	#10
Ghostblade Pile O'Bones Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Varies Posts: 11	sorry if I made this unclear all... what i meant was who you think in everything that tolkien wrote about middle-earth movie or book. :evil :evil :evil __________________ On swift wings death arrives and I am its emissary. -Ghostblade

12-18-2003, 06:42 PM	#11
Tar-Alcarin Wight Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Numenore Posts: 108	Melkor is by far the most evil of all people in middle-earth. I mean, the guy took elves, tortured them and mutilated them in to orcs. Who besides Melkor could sluaghter a peace loving being just to make his own race. I mean suaron is evil and all, but who taught him his evil ways: MELKOR did. But in the movies, legolas is. I mean that little twit is the only reason my sister and her friends like LoTR. She asked me if Orlando Bloom was mentioned at all in the books. Not legolas, but Orlando BLoom. Now that is evil. __________________ Miniature Rohirrim armor: $500. Amount of fuel it took pippin to light the beacons: $20. Seeing your two favourite hobbits get wasted and drunk: priceless

12-19-2003, 06:05 AM	#13
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	Please discuss who you think the most evil person in the Movies is in the Movies forum. Ignore what the topic starter said; this forum is for book discussions.

12-19-2003, 09:31 AM	#14
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	If we are talking about all beings and not just people then I think that everyone would say Melkor. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

12-19-2003, 05:55 PM	#15
Meoshi Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Atop the peak of Kalormë Posts: 163	Glaurung. If you read his segment of the Silmarillion, you'll see that he was an utter creep. Maybe not as evil as his boss, but he's up there.

12-20-2003, 06:25 PM	#17
Rasputin Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 23	i'd say shelob. shiver gives me the creeps. but then again the ungoliath is the same thing....just like a million times bigger and more powerful.

12-21-2003, 02:08 PM	#18
Elrond of Rivendell Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 261	yeah ... I would agree with that Ungoliant-idea. When I first read The Silmarillion, Morgoth almost "disappeared" compared to this huge monster. IMHO, a creature who has such a great lust that it is ready to eat herself up, is extremely evil. Another point "for" Ungoliant: Morgoth alone wasn't able to overcome her. So Ungoliant definitely is very powerful and entirely evil. Greeting, EfR

12-21-2003, 02:10 PM	#19
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	Hmm... I think I'd consider Morgoth to be the most evil person in Middle-earth. Why he is, is fairly self-explanatory, since he alone had the audacity to actually corrupt a race created by Iluvatar, for his own dastardly purposes. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

12-21-2003, 02:12 PM	#20
Feanor of the Peredhil La Belle Dame sans Merci Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: perpetual uncertainty Posts: 5,517	Ye olde list of evilness: Dwarf: Mim Hobbit: Ted Sandyman Human: The Witch King (so he's not really human anymore... who cares?) Elf: Eol Maiar: Sauron the Deciever Valar: Melkor Morgoth Non-Humanoid: Ungoliant At least, in my humble opinion. The MOST evil award definately goes to Morgoth. __________________ peace

12-21-2003, 02:26 PM	#21
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	I'm disinclined to acquiesce to your proposal of Eol the Dark Elf as being the most suitable Elf for the title of "Most Evil..." I propose that said Dark Elf's son, Maeglin, is much more suitable for the title, having fallen incestuously in love with his cousin, having betrayed the city of Gondolin to the Dark Lord Morgoth, and having attempted to murder his nephew Earendil. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

12-21-2003, 04:40 PM	#22
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	There is no way that a Dragon can be referred to as being a person. But since the topic starter has already made it clear that it is not just people we are discussing, this minor quibble should not be discussed further. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

12-22-2003, 10:44 AM	#23
Arothir Wight Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: the Realm of Nargothrond beyond Narog Posts: 163	For evil elves, look no farther! Everyone knows any Orc could fit the title of most evil elf! Don't start an orc debate! Of course Melkor (not Morgoth) is the most evil thing ever! __________________ Then Felagund upon the head of Arothir set it: "Nephew mine, till I return this crown is thine."

12-22-2003, 06:31 PM	#26
Dragon Elf odin Ragnorock Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: In The countless forests Posts: 35	I would have to say the most evil person in the books is Gollum because he gave Frodo up to shelob and he is over consumed with the ring __________________ "People that we have lost or dreams that have faded....... we will never forget them" Yuna

12-22-2003, 06:43 PM	#27
Elrond of Rivendell Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 261	I wouldn't depict Gollum as entirely evil. Anyway, I always hoped (until I finished reading LotR for the first time) that he could become Smeagol again. But still, Gollum's whole evil behaviour (his treason, etc.) is due to the Ring, so if Gollum is evil, the Ring is it even more, not to speak of its maker Sauron, who was after all only a follower of Morgoth. Greetings, EfR

12-24-2003, 02:27 PM	#30
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Do the quotation marks indicate that the "person"s are not actually persons? __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

01-01-2004, 09:14 PM	#32
Laitoste Wight Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Behind the hills Posts: 164	This is going waayy back to the top of the thread (and I'm sorry that I don't know how to quote things [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] ). I'm one of the quiet ones. Gashberz, how could you even think that we want to take over the world? At least, I don't think we do...I do have a tendency to set off the security devices at the airport...hee hee hee [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] . (just kidding with the evilness...JUST KIDDING!) Anyway, I'm not going to restate Morogth or Sauron, they're obvious enough, but I think that Feanor and sons are evil. I always hated them. (Weel, come to think of it, not as evil as Maeglin, but a lot of Middle-Earth's torment was their fault.) Nasty elves! __________________ "If we're still alive in the morning, we'll know that we're not dead."~South Park

01-02-2004, 01:22 PM	#33
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	Feanor? Evil? Well, he could easily be construed that way based on his actions, I suppose. I myself would describe him as "misguided and insane." [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.