Which volumes of HoME would you recommend?

[skip spence]

During the past years I've rediscovered Tolkien and reread The Lord of the Rings , The Hobbit, The Silmarillion and Unfinished tales (the latter for the first but certainly not the last time).

I loved these books as a kid and find that I appriciate them even more now as an adult. The prose is just fantastic and I'm in awe of the depth and beauty of Tolkien's tales and of the one man universe in his head.

Now I'm hungry for more and have finally started to look at the History Of Middle Earth series, which I earlier though of as the domain of the Tolkien ultra nerds. Guess I am a Tolkien ultra nerd -.

Previously I've read parts of the two 'Lost Tales' books, having picked them up at the library. Didn't enjoy them so much as I found them to be 'primitive' and too different to Tolkiens later legendarium. As stand alone stories they are nice, but I can't really get over how different the stories and the characters are here compared to later versions, with a more developed 'historical' background.

A few month ago I picked up "Morgoth's Ring" and I really enjoyed it. It included lots of 'new' material that felt fully compatible to my mental image of ME and enriched my enjoyment and understanding of it.

Some parts of 'Myths Transformed' certainly didn't feel compatible to the ME I've got in my head but others parts did, and at any rate, it was an interesting read.

Well, I'm rambling on too much. What I really want to know is, which volumes should I pick up next?

I'm not really interested in the fictional languages. Nor am I'm I interested in long poems as I'm a prose man. I'm not really interested in discarded drafts of familiar passages of published works either, unless the drafts give a different perspective or a longer and more detailed version of the events, like in "Morgoth's Ring".

What I want is to read something I haven't read before, that doesn't conflict too badly with the published works such as LoTR or Silmarillion.

So, any advice? Which volume is for me?

[Mithalwen]

I can sympathise since I found the early volumes difficult and gave up at vol 4 when they first emerged only completing my set when they were reissued in 2002.

The History of the Lord of the Rings volumes are very readable (I admit they are the only ones I have read from cover to cover so far) and fascinating for the develpment of the story but won't bring you much in the way of new stories. The Peoples of Middle Earth is another interesting one - certainly the one apart from Morgoth's ring that I refer to most.

[Elmo]

Morgoth's Ring is the best one, especially for the Athrabeth which is one of my favourite pieces of writing ever.

[Mithalwen]

Yes, but he has already read that one .... don't put him off the others!

[Elmo]

Arrrgggggghhhh! I'm tired OK please forgive me

[Mithalwen]

Nothing to forgive ... and *whispers* it is my favourite too since it includes "LACE" as well .... but there is good stuff elsewhere.

[Sauron the White]

Skip should be forewarned that most of those books would be more accurately titled THE HISTORY OF THE WRITING OF MIDDLE EARTH. If somebody picks up all those books thinking they are going to get two feet worth of detailed information about actual Middle-earth events that were not in the standard HOBBIT and LOTR, they usually are greatly disappointed. These are great books if you want to know all the ins and outs of how they were written. As true history books, they are badly mistitled. Of course, I have always suspected that a series of books called THE HISTORY OF THE WRITING OF MIDDLE EARTH would have sold even fewer copies that did the HOME.

[Aganzir]

I have made it to volume four by now, and it will probably still take me some years before I've read them all, but anyway, here we go.

I didn't enjoy the Books of Lost Tales that much either, for the same reasons you skip spence mentioned. There were many things that made me think "Oh that I'm happy he didn't leave them like this"...
But on the other hand, there are some good things as well that didn't make it to the Silmarillion - the Cottage of Lost Play for example, which was rather lovely.

My absolute favourite thus far has been vol. III: Lays of Beleriand. It's just so... different to read familiar stories in verse form. But, apart from good poems that give more insight to some minor details, a disliker of poetry doesn't miss much if he doesn't read it.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Skip should be forewarned that most of those books would be more accurately titled THE HISTORY OF THE WRITING OF MIDDLE EARTH. If somebody picks up all those books thinking they are going to get two feet worth of detailed information about actual Middle-earth events that were not in the standard HOBBIT and LOTR, they usually are greatly disappointed.

Well if people pick them up and don't bother to examine either the back cover or flip through the insides then they deserve to waste their money especially if they buy they whole lot without finding out about them. It isn't like going to a film, you can see what you are going to get before you cough up the cash, or get them from the library.

[Sauron the White]

So that justifies the mistitling of the entire series? Let he buyer beware? Theres a sucker born every minute? Its your own darn fault?

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

For my own part, I've read all of the HoME series, and in terms of providing the most information about the world we see in LotR, the Hobbit, and the Silmarillion, I found Morgoth's Ring and The Peoples of Middle-earth most enlightening (especially as a researcher and a fan writer).

The books that cover the evolution of the writing of LotR are interesting, but, IMHO, potentially confusing (the same can be said for the books that cover evolving and alternate versions of the Silmarillion). Looking at the variations and Christopher Tolkien's commentary can set one's head spinning, because sometimes, they raise more questions than they answer (well, that was my experience, some of the time, and I'm not unfamiliar with in-depth literary analysis). Unfortunately, there are a lot of questions that only JRRT himself can really answer, and even he hadn't made up his mind about some of them before he died. This doesn't mean I consider the books worthless; they certainly offer glimpses into the mind and method of Tolkien and his imagination, which can be quite valuable in appreciating his finished work. But I don't think it hurts for one to approach these books with care, if one is looking for more definitive information about Middle-earth, its history and its inhabitants. Just my two cents, of course.

[The Might]

Now, now, StW, let's not get to hasty there.
I agree with Mith fully because a buyer always has to check what he is buying first.

It is your personal opinion that CT should have chosen a perhaps more fitting name for the series and I can see where you're coming from.
However, I find the title quite fitting, because we are not talking about M-e as the place with all the infromation or "lore" as you may call it that comes along with it but as Tolkien's creation and the changes it underwent during the writing process.

I remember a few times that I bought something that I afterwards regreted not having looked up first but that was my own fault.

[Mithalwen]

Yes they have only them selves to blame. It isn't mistitling ... a book is one of the few things you can judge pretty well before buying. It isn't sold in a sealed wrapper. You can browse through it before buying. Amazon has review which detail what is in it for online buyers. These are not cheap novels such as the ones that I might chuck in the shopping trolley along with groceries. If people buy a book without looking at it or researching it then they can hardly claim to be ripped off. An idiot not a sucker - And anyone who buys the whole lot without doing so has more money than sense. The complete set costs £100 - £120, I am certainly not in the financial league to spend that much on books unless I know I want them.

Presumably the publishers may have assumed a modicum of intelligence from potential publishers of such works. They cannot be blamed if people cannot be bothered to read even the back cover

I bought the first volumes of HoMe when I was a teenager and they represented serious expenditure. Some I have read more than others but I am glad I have them all, just as I am glad I have "The Road goes ever on" even though I can't play the piano.

[Thinlómien]

There is an old (well, not that old but it feels like I started it ages ago, just look at my English ) thread on the subject.

HoME sweet HoME?

I haven't read all of the HoME but I can't recommend everything I've read this far - both volumes of Lost Tales and The Peoples of Middle-Earth.

If you want to read something that does not (necessarily?) conflict with Tolkien's published works, the stories Tal-Elmar and The New Shadow are very interesting, but sadly unfinished. They can both be found in The Peoples of Middle-Earth.

[skip spence]

Thank you for your comments.

I am aware that these books aren't (fictional) history books per say, but rather the history of Tolkien's creation of Arda. While this might be interesting for a select few, I'm amazed at at the sheer size of the project with its 12 volumes, to my knowledge mostly consisting of discarded drafts and (at times) rather tedious comments by CT. While browsing the books in my local pocket-book shop I was flabbergasted to find that even the combined indexes were published as a seperate book, priced the same as the other volumes. My first thought was that the Tolkien estate were trying to wring out as much money as possible out of JRRT's unpublished writings. But then again, who in their right mind would pay 20 Euro for a 400 page index? I mean, could this really be a economically viable project? Or are there really enough Tolkien maniacs and academics around for it to justify the 13 books?

Anyhow, what I can gather from your advice is that "The Peoples of Middle Earth" should be first (and perhaps last) on my shopping list. What's in this one?

And how about the 11th volume, "The War of the Jewels"? I am a big fan of the Silmarillion. Will this volume broaden my horizon?

[Mithalwen]

I bought the index.... though I do not claim necessarily to be in my right mind ..after all I rather enjoy Christopher Tolkien's dry humour ..... but if you are looking for information on a specific character or topic and own the whole set it is an absolute godsend to be able to go direct to the most useful volumes rather than check 12 indexes.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I bought the index.... though I do not claim necessarily to be in my right mind

Don't sweat it mate, none of us are.

[Mithalwen]

As someone's sig once said - reality is very nice but I wouldn't want to live there

[Elmo]

Hey isn't there a another volume which has a story of Hurin that's never been published? Is that any good? Which volume is it in?

[Galin]

You maybe mean The War of the Jools, or HME XI The War of the Jewels which includes (very basically):

The Grey Annals

The Later Quenta Silmarillion II (following after HME X)

The Wanderings of Húrin (and other texts)

Æfwine and Dírhaval 'introductory note' to the Narn i Chin Húrin

Maeglin

Of the Ents and the Eagles (later additions to the chapter of Aulë and Yavanna are discussed)

The Tale of Years

Quendi and Eldar (a linguistic essay)

the Awakening of the Quendi (in an appendix, a child's tale mingled with counting lore)

Thanks to Mellonath Daeron.

[cesar.ewok]

Skip spence, you're probably not going to like The War of the Jewels as much as you liked Morgoth's Ring. The Grey Annals and the Later Quenta doesn't add up much to your knowledge, since most of the information extant in the published Silmarillion are derived from these writings (and from the Annals of Aman as well). Anyhow, it may be relevant to read the original writings in their entirety.

Moreover, there's also a long linguistic essay entitled "Quendi and Eldar", which probably is not interesting at all to the dislikers of linguistics (as you said you were ). The only "new" tale is "The Wanderings of Húrin", which tells the real story of Húrin after his release from Angband.

...

You guys are complaining about the price of the set of books, but in my country these books are even more expensive!! Luckily, I've got them all.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

I mean, could this really be a economically viable project? Or are there really enough Tolkien maniacs and academics around for it to justify the 13 books?

Just barely. Rayner Unwin originally committed to just four volumes, which CT envisioned (at first) as the Lost Tales, the Lays, and a sort of UT-style miscellany. Unwin expected to break even at best, even though no advance or pre-profit royalties were paid (similar to the LR thirty years before). CT's motivation was as much as anything to respond to many readers (like me) who had been asking about the Lost Tales etc and wanted to know if they would ever see the light of day. (The foreword to UT contains an oblique reference to the possibility).

However, the Lost Tales sold much better than expected, selling out the initial print run and I believe cracking the lower end of the bestseller list, and the project was expanded, piecemeal. The Lord of the Rings was never part of the original plan, and even when he finished The Lost Road CT still thought the LR would take only two volumes! It was also as I understand it a rather late decision to include the complete texts of the Annals of Aman and Grey Annals together with the post-LR Quenta Silmarillion, making two volumes where one had been envisioned; and Vol XII didn't become a history of the Appendices until CT was already in the middle of it.

Vols 1, 2, and 6-9 made a profit in their initial hardcover release. 4 and 12 lost money. The rest just about broke even. Of course, their continued availability in paperback has improved the numbers slightly: but CT has not nor ever intended to make any significant amount of money on what was simply a labor of devotion and scholarly interest. If he really wanted to coin his father into gold there were much, much, easier, sleazier and more lucrative things he could have done!

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

...CT has not nor ever intended to make any significant amount of money on what was simply a labor of devotion and scholarly interest. If he really wanted to coin his father into gold there were much, much, easier, sleazier and more lucrative things he could have done!

True enough. Like I said, my first thought was that the thirteen (!) books was an attempt to make as much money as possible. Then, after browsing the books, I quickly realised that they certainly aren't put together in a format which suggests that profit is a high priority.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by skip spence

But then again, who in their right mind would pay 20 Euro for a 400 page index? I mean, could this really be a economically viable project? Or are there really enough Tolkien maniacs and academics around for it to justify the 13 books?

Yes. We've got two copies (and three sets of HoME).

Once you get into them, the index is really useful - in fact, it's impossible to find any references without it!

[skip spence]

^Wow, that is incredible. JRRT would be amazed had he known that 35 years after his death there would be tens of thosands of fans buying a 400 page index of 12 brick-sized books, constructed from his old notebooks of unfinished material.