What happened to Cirdan - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

thelotrfreak1 · 01-02-2008, 10:31 AM

I always thought that Cirdan left Middle-Earth with Gandalf, Frodo, Elrond, etc.
However, after looking closely at the last chapter, I could find no proof that he left. Indeed, looking at the Appendix A, I found proof rejecting the idea that he left.

Please share your thoughts.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 01-02-2008, 10:41 AM

He definitely remained there. There was some mysterious stuff about "until the last ship leaves". Not sure what it is supposed to refer to, but obviously not to the Ringbearers' ship.

Lord Gothmog · 01-02-2008, 10:45 AM

Perhaps "The Last Ship" (from the Grey Havens at least) was the one that Celeborn took. So that may be the ship on which Cirdan sailed.

zxcvbn · 01-02-2008, 12:26 PM

The books don't say anything about Cirdan's fate except that he won't leave until 'the last ship sails', so we have to assume that he did not leave for some time. In any case, the 'fading' of the Elves(which is the main reason they had to leave Middle-earth) would not start until sometime in the middle of the Fourth Age, so I think there was still a sizeable Elven population in Lindon. I remember a story somewhere in the HoMe books where Sam tells Elanor that there will still be Elves in Middle Earth for many a year, and that it was possible for her to meet some. So I'm inclined to think that Cirdan stayed, along with others like Celeborn, Elladan and Elrohir, atleast for a few centuries.

Galin · 01-02-2008, 04:41 PM

With the Appendix A quote in mind ('Last Ship' and etc.; noting also the 'some say' part and the implied author(s) with '...before we came to the Shire' in this passage), in Of The Rings Of Power And The Third Age Círdan is said to have spoken to Gandalf, his words ending with: '... and I will dwell by the grey shores, guarding the Havens until the last ship sails. Then I shall await thee.' And...

'White was that ship and long was it a-building, and long it awaited the end of which Círdan had spoken. But when all these things were done, and the Heir of Isildur had taken up the lordship of Men, and the dominion of the West had passed to him, then it was made plain that the power of the Three Rings also was ended, and to the Firstborn the world grew old and grey (...)'

In my opinion the implication here (at least) is that the 'last ship' refers to the ship prepared for Gandalf and Elrond and others. Not that is solves anything of course, but another piece for consideration maybe, including that Círdan had held one of the Three.

TheGreatElvenWarrior · 01-03-2008, 01:55 PM

Cirdan has held one of the three, but not anymore! So I think that Legolas and Gimli left after Cirdan left because they built their own boat to carry them across the sea. If that helps any!

01-02-2008, 10:31 AM	#1
thelotrfreak1 Newly Deceased Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 7	What happened to Cirdan I always thought that Cirdan left Middle-Earth with Gandalf, Frodo, Elrond, etc. However, after looking closely at the last chapter, I could find no proof that he left. Indeed, looking at the Appendix A, I found proof rejecting the idea that he left. Please share your thoughts.

01-02-2008, 10:41 AM	#2
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	He definitely remained there. There was some mysterious stuff about "until the last ship leaves". Not sure what it is supposed to refer to, but obviously not to the Ringbearers' ship. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

01-02-2008, 10:45 AM	#3
Lord Gothmog Animated Skeleton Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Wales Posts: 49	Perhaps "The Last Ship" (from the Grey Havens at least) was the one that Celeborn took. So that may be the ship on which Cirdan sailed. __________________ If life was just a rehearsal, Would the show be Cancled. Greetings and Felicitations from the Lord of Balrogs!

01-02-2008, 04:41 PM	#5
Galin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,034	With the Appendix A quote in mind ('Last Ship' and etc.; noting also the 'some say' part and the implied author(s) with '...before we came to the Shire' in this passage), in Of The Rings Of Power And The Third Age Círdan is said to have spoken to Gandalf, his words ending with: '... and I will dwell by the grey shores, guarding the Havens until the last ship sails. Then I shall await thee.' And... 'White was that ship and long was it a-building, and long it awaited the end of which Círdan had spoken. But when all these things were done, and the Heir of Isildur had taken up the lordship of Men, and the dominion of the West had passed to him, then it was made plain that the power of the Three Rings also was ended, and to the Firstborn the world grew old and grey (...)' In my opinion the implication here (at least) is that the 'last ship' refers to the ship prepared for Gandalf and Elrond and others. Not that is solves anything of course, but another piece for consideration maybe, including that Círdan had held one of the Three.

01-03-2008, 01:55 PM	#6
TheGreatElvenWarrior Mighty Quill Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Walking off to look for America Posts: 2,230	Cirdan has held one of the three, but not anymore! So I think that Legolas and Gimli left after Cirdan left because they built their own boat to carry them across the sea. If that helps any! __________________ The Party Doesn't Start Until You're Dead.

01-02-2008, 12:26 PM	#4
zxcvbn Wight Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: In front of my PC Posts: 164	The books don't say anything about Cirdan's fate except that he won't leave until 'the last ship sails', so we have to assume that he did not leave for some time. In any case, the 'fading' of the Elves(which is the main reason they had to leave Middle-earth) would not start until sometime in the middle of the Fourth Age, so I think there was still a sizeable Elven population in Lindon. I remember a story somewhere in the HoMe books where Sam tells Elanor that there will still be Elves in Middle Earth for many a year, and that it was possible for her to meet some. So I'm inclined to think that Cirdan stayed, along with others like Celeborn, Elladan and Elrohir, atleast for a few centuries.