Carn Dum, the Witchking, Angmar and more - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

The Fuzz · 10-12-2007, 07:26 PM

Hi all, this is my second post here and I though of asking this in the novice section but I decided on here.

Now then, my quesitons:
-In which books can I read about these topics?

-Are there any good maps of Eriador and the Forodwaith(sp?) and Forochel, along with the regions concerned in the wars with the Witchking? I'm thinking specially around the year 1300 of the Third Age.

-Where can I find more information (online) about all of these topics? I've read the wikis but I'm still having trouble putting it all together. A timeline would help, but at worst I suppose I could put one together after studying the topics.

Any help or related discussion would be extremely helpful. Thanks in advance!

Legate of Amon Lanc · 10-13-2007, 02:05 AM

Well, as I was studying some of these problems closer for one of my RPG settings, I may be able to provide some help to you.

To your first question, things that concern Angmar&The Witch-King are mostly to be found in the Appendix A to LotR, the part about Arnor and Isildur's heirs (something little also in the part about Gondor, mainly about the last battle where the WK was defeated; that is, if I remember it correctly). You can find some interesting information there (though they are just hints and the topic is not expanded), like that there are some "abandoned dwarven mines" on the North; also some things about the Lossoth etc. It's probably the best you can get about this topic, otherwise, there are hints here and there - in the Fellowship of the Ring, when the hobbits are at Tom Bombadil's or when they pass the Last Bridge, some people tell them about the wars with Angmar, but still it's nothing much. In the Unfinished Tales, in the part "Hunt for the Ring" there is something about the Witch-King and that he sent "evil spirits from Angmar and Rhudaur" to the Barrow-Downs, but still, not any precise information. I don't know if there is anything in the History of Middle-Earth, maybe someone else could tell you.

I'm afraid, as far as I know, that there are not many maps of Forochel, since largely it's presumed that there's nothing interesting in that place. Of Eriador, you probably won't find much better maps than the ones that are in LotR. Personally I use the Atlas of Middle-Earth by Karen Wynn Fonstad, which is quite reliable (mostly) and has some higher-quality maps of most of the regions. In this point, I may only warn you that it's better not to be too trustful and double-check all your sources, because people are able to imagine (or just because of poor assumptions state as credible) quite a lot of complete nonsenses.

Not sure about timeline; the one credible source that comes to my mind is the Encyclopedia of Arda. It is still work-in-progress, but at least it's reliable, as far as I know.

Hope it helped you

The Fuzz · 10-13-2007, 03:28 AM

This is very helpful, thank you! The whole topic interests me because of the lack of known facts (I'm a history major, go figure), and it would be fun to piece it all together.

I'll look for this atlas at the bookstore tomorrow. Perhaps one day I can put together as accurate a timeline as possible.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 10-13-2007, 03:35 AM

Good luck, then. I also like putting pieces together - you have to have sense for noticing details. Hopefully if you come to something interesting, you'll let us know

The Might · 10-13-2007, 06:04 AM

Well the EoA is ok, but The Thain's Book is better, here are a few links:

http://www.tuckborough.net/fortress.html#Carn_Dum
http://www.tuckborough.net/lands.html#Angmar
http://www.tuckborough.net/witchking.html

The really cool thing about this encyclopedia is that at the bottom of the page you always find the places the information was taken from, meaning what chapter or part.

10-12-2007, 07:26 PM	#1
The Fuzz Newly Deceased Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 6	Carn Dum, the Witchking, Angmar and more Hi all, this is my second post here and I though of asking this in the novice section but I decided on here. Now then, my quesitons: -In which books can I read about these topics? -Are there any good maps of Eriador and the Forodwaith(sp?) and Forochel, along with the regions concerned in the wars with the Witchking? I'm thinking specially around the year 1300 of the Third Age. -Where can I find more information (online) about all of these topics? I've read the wikis but I'm still having trouble putting it all together. A timeline would help, but at worst I suppose I could put one together after studying the topics. Any help or related discussion would be extremely helpful. Thanks in advance! __________________ Flow, stream, flow! The ripples are unending; green they gleam, and shimmer as it passes. -Tom Bombadil Last edited by The Fuzz; 10-13-2007 at 03:24 AM.

10-13-2007, 02:05 AM	#2
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Well, as I was studying some of these problems closer for one of my RPG settings, I may be able to provide some help to you. To your first question, things that concern Angmar&The Witch-King are mostly to be found in the Appendix A to LotR, the part about Arnor and Isildur's heirs (something little also in the part about Gondor, mainly about the last battle where the WK was defeated; that is, if I remember it correctly). You can find some interesting information there (though they are just hints and the topic is not expanded), like that there are some "abandoned dwarven mines" on the North; also some things about the Lossoth etc. It's probably the best you can get about this topic, otherwise, there are hints here and there - in the Fellowship of the Ring, when the hobbits are at Tom Bombadil's or when they pass the Last Bridge, some people tell them about the wars with Angmar, but still it's nothing much. In the Unfinished Tales, in the part "Hunt for the Ring" there is something about the Witch-King and that he sent "evil spirits from Angmar and Rhudaur" to the Barrow-Downs, but still, not any precise information. I don't know if there is anything in the History of Middle-Earth, maybe someone else could tell you. I'm afraid, as far as I know, that there are not many maps of Forochel, since largely it's presumed that there's nothing interesting in that place. Of Eriador, you probably won't find much better maps than the ones that are in LotR. Personally I use the Atlas of Middle-Earth by Karen Wynn Fonstad, which is quite reliable (mostly) and has some higher-quality maps of most of the regions. In this point, I may only warn you that it's better not to be too trustful and double-check all your sources, because people are able to imagine (or just because of poor assumptions state as credible) quite a lot of complete nonsenses. Not sure about timeline; the one credible source that comes to my mind is the Encyclopedia of Arda. It is still work-in-progress, but at least it's reliable, as far as I know. Hope it helped you __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

10-13-2007, 03:28 AM	#3
The Fuzz Newly Deceased Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 6	This is very helpful, thank you! The whole topic interests me because of the lack of known facts (I'm a history major, go figure), and it would be fun to piece it all together. I'll look for this atlas at the bookstore tomorrow. Perhaps one day I can put together as accurate a timeline as possible. __________________ Flow, stream, flow! The ripples are unending; green they gleam, and shimmer as it passes. -Tom Bombadil

10-13-2007, 03:35 AM	#4
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Good luck, then. I also like putting pieces together - you have to have sense for noticing details. Hopefully if you come to something interesting, you'll let us know __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

10-13-2007, 06:04 AM	#5
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	Well the EoA is ok, but The Thain's Book is better, here are a few links: http://www.tuckborough.net/fortress.html#Carn_Dum http://www.tuckborough.net/lands.html#Angmar http://www.tuckborough.net/witchking.html The really cool thing about this encyclopedia is that at the bottom of the page you always find the places the information was taken from, meaning what chapter or part. __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown