The population in Middle Earth

One of the flaws in the LOTR appears to be the fact that the world population is quite small, most probably no more than 1-2 million figures from various races. Even a major city, such as Minas Tirith, can only hold around 50,000 people. How can this be? Why are the armies of Gondor & Rohan so small?

[ninja91]

Originally Posted by Mansun

One of the flaws in the LOTR appears to be the fact that the world population is quite small, most probably no more than 1-2 million figures from various races. Even a major city, such as Minas Tirith, can only hold around 50,000 people. How can this be? Why are the armies of Gondor & Rohan so small?

You bring up a very good point. You would think that there would be many more cities. Look at Gondor, and how easy it would be to build a city there, yet there are only 15 at most known throughout the whole country. And I guess the armies are so small because they were not prepared to ever have to defend themselves from the likes of Sauron ever again...that is until the Third Age.

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Maybe if Middle-earth would have more people then it would get over crowded, and thats not what Tolkien wanted...just a thought.

[ninja91]

Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior

Maybe if Middle-earth would have more people then it would get over crowded, and thats not what Tolkien wanted...just a thought.

True. One of his themes in his works was the defense of nature, and how it is ever-important.

[The Might]

So what?
Tolkien said that if we were to consider M-e really existed then it would be about 6000 years between the Fall of Barad-dur and modern times.

So that means 4000 BC.
Now I dunno how many people lived in Europe back then during the Bronze Age or whatever age but I doubt there were many.

So that it makes sense that after much reproduction we now have all these millions that all originate from those first 1 - 2 millions. Of course in this case the Elves (who anyway were only very few) and Dwarves (same goes for them) don't count.

[Meriadoc1961]

Gondor was founded by the Numenoreans, a race that lived thrice that of other mortal men. Therefore, it would stand to reason that a longer lived race would not have to reproduce itself so quickly as a race that does not live as long.

Rohan was founded by a race of people who emigrated from the north. There may have been many more people still there, plus we do not know how many people inhabited the lands to the east and to the south.

Additionally, I believe the plague decimated much of the population of the Rohirrim that also coincided with the Fell Winter.

But I could be wrong.

Merry

[The Might]

No, you are quite right.
One can notice how low Gondor's population was (as a result of all the wars, plagues and all that) since that is why they gave up Calenardhon in the first place, and since also Minas Tirith still had room for many more during the War of the Ring.

And indeed the Rohirrim were brought close to extinction by the Long Winter.

Interesting would be to know how many Hobbits lived in the Shire, they were also severely affected by calamities like the Fell Winter, but they little to do with wars, and we know some had quite many children.

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Originally Posted by The Might

Interesting would be to know how many Hobbits lived in the Shire, they were also severely affected by calamities like the Fell Winter, but they little to do with wars, and we know some had quite many children.

Like Old Took

[Thinlómien]

One more thing to take into account is that maybe not every single city is not marked on the maps, just the big or important ones.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

It's not far off compared to the Middle Ages: just before the Black Death, the biggest city in Europe was Paris (perhaps 200,000) followed by London (half that). No other town in England exceeded the size of Bristol or Norwich, approx. 40,000.

[goldfinger]

We can really only take a mediocre sensus calculation of North-western Middle-earth during the Third Age. For the population spikes and drops more in the Third Age than any other. And we really don't have numbers we can compare the so called "very small population" to. It's very likely the number for NW Middle Earth at the time of the War of the Ring are 2-3 half million people, and the rest of Middle earth is 3-4 million Man, Elf, and Dwarf. As I said we just don't know.

Also to answer why so few Men in NW Middle Earth, are you all not forgetting the Great Plague that hit Gondor, Rhovanion, Eriador, and Minhiriath during the Third Age? It killed thousands and thousands of people.
Then there's the Days of Dearth during the Fell Winter. It was during this time the Corsairs and Dunlendings besieged Rohan. The winter killed thousands of people including Hobbits in Eriador during this time.

You guys should try looking at it from a different angle.

[The Might]

Maybe we did.

Originally Posted by goldfinger

You guys should try looking at it from a different angle.

The whole point of a thread such as this is to learn new things off each other. But even still, we are talking about a whole world, which is forever in fear of the darkness of Mordor & beyond. With this in mind, it is valid to question why the population is so low across Middle Earth for all races. A greater danger to the world requires a greater presence of people to defend their countries, by whatever means. Minas Tirith, for example, is the greatest city in Middle Earth (arguably), yet it is tiny!