Ironic Characters in Tolkien

[littlemanpoet]

Garm and Farmer Giles were ironic characters in Farmer Giles of Ham. Supposed to be heroes, Garm was a coward and Giles was an opportunist who got lucky; his mare was the real hero as Tolkien said.

Question: Are there other characters in other stories by Tolkien that are ironic? Who are they? How are they ironic? Why does Tolkien cast them that way? And if, by chance, there are no ironic characters in LotR or The Hobbit or any other of his writings, why not?

[Mithalwen]

Well surely Bilbo is ironic, the bourgeois Baggins turns burglar....

[littlemanpoet]

I expected ironic figures to pop up in "The Hobbit". What about his more serious works?

[MatthewM]

I would say Gollum is ironic. His whole purpose is to get back the One Ring, and when he finally gets it, he falls off into the lava of Mt. Doom and destroys it, thus fulfilling the Quest.

[Morthoron]

I would guess that in a sense Saruman would be considered ironic, having become that which he was sent out to destroy, complete with a ring on his finger and an army of Orcs.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

The character I thought of immediately as I read this thread is the herb-master in "The Houses of Healing", RotK. He knows so much theoretically, but he cannot give the practical help that is needed = the athelas. Aragorn and Gandalf's comments are humorous and bitingly sarcastic:

Thereupon the herb-master entered. 'Your lordship asked for kingsfoil, as the rustics name it,' he said; 'or athelas in the noble tongue, or to those who know somewhat of the Valinorean....'

'I do so,' said Aragorn, 'and I care not whether you say now asëa aranion or kingsfoil, so long as you have some.'

....

'Then in the name of the king, go and find some old man of less lore and more wisdom who keeps some in his house!' cried Gandalf.

It sounds to me like Tolkien is even making a rather snide comment on his own profession - of what practical use is the science of linguistics?!

Perhaps Ioreth can be included as another ironic character; she is the one who is looked down upon as an "old wife", yet her knowledge is coupled with a practical wisdom that plays a small yet vital part in the development of the story.

[Boromir88]

Legate and I got into a discussion about Radagast, and from our 'findings' I think Radagast is a rather ironic character. 'Birds and Beasts' are supposed to be Radagast's specialty...or that's what he's known for:

'Radagast is, of course, a worthy Wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue; and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially hisfriends.'

"Stay a moment!" said I. "We shall need your help, and the help of all things that will give it. Send out messages to all the beasts and birds that are your friends..."

And of course Saruman's degrading:

"Radagast the Bird-Tamer!"

(All quotes come from The Council of Elrond).

Anyway, what I'm trying to set up here is Radagast was known to at least Gandalf and Saruman as delighting in the birds and the beasts. That has always been seen as his 'specialty.' However, what's ironic about Radagast is, Gandalf is even better at Radagast's best 'field of interest' than Radagast is!

In Hammond and Scull's LOTR Companion, Tolkien wrote in his Tolkien Papers; Bodleian Library - Radagast the Fool):

'it is clear that Gandalf (with greater insight and compassion) had in fact more knowledge of birds and beasts than Radagast, and was regarded by them with more respect and affection'

And I think we see that with the respect/friendship between Gwaihir and Gandalf. Radagast sent Gwaihir out as a messenger, yet Gwaihir (out of assumingly the love for his friend who was in a tough spot) rescues him off Orthanc. Then it all ends when Gandalf admits he has been a burden to Gwaihir, and he must ask to be one again:

'I would bear you,' answered Gwaihir, 'whither you will, even were you made of stone.'~Field of Cormallen

Poor Radagast, he's in such a great company of Wizards he tries to find his own thing where he could be at least good at something those 'other wizards' aren't and he even fails at that. No wonder why Saruman had to be begged by Yavanna to take Radagast with him. :P

[radagastly]

Certainly, the Sackville-Bagginses are full of irony. Lobelia recieves a gift of silver spoons, and yet, by the end, there is virtually no food to scoop up with them. Lotho enters Bag End and says, "Ours at last!"

It was not polilte, but it was ironic, considering that within a few months, he was nothing more than a captive in this home, and his demise came shortly after, strapped to his bed, possibly cannibalized, but at least, likely murdered. "Ours . . ." indeed!

Thank you, Sharkey!

[Rikae]

In one sense, isn't the entire plot of LOTR ironic? Where armies of the most powerful beings in M-E fail, two hobbits; neither strong nor wise beings; (actually pretty absurd creatures) succeed?
Or in the Silm, the outcome of the oath of Feanor could apply. Intended primarily against Morgoth, it furthers Morgoth's aims more often than not. Or: how about Thingol' sending Beren for the Silmaril, assuming he sends him to his doom; only to have that same Silmaril seal Thingol's fate?
However, I suppose these are more ironies in the plot than the characters. Then again, there's not a whole lot of characterization in the Silm, after all.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Poor Radagast, he's in such a great company of Wizards he tries to find his own thing where he could be at least good at something those 'other wizards' aren't and he even fails at that. No wonder why Saruman had to be begged by Yavanna to take Radagast with him. :P

Thank you very much for your points on Radagast vis a vie Gandalf. It seems to me that Radagast's failing isn't so much in how he started out, in that he allowed himself to be side-tracked from his mission into an area of his fancy whereas Gandalf stayed true to his charge, and by virtue of it was able to see true. Seeing true, he respected the beasts and birds more for what they really were than Radagast did who served himself. No doubt I could have said this better.

Rikae, thank you for your points regarding plot in both LotR and the Sil. The things you speak of seem to fall in line with "what you sow, you reap".

[Galadriel55]

COH in its entirety.

The ending of LOTR. I do find it ironic that Frodo goes through everything with the Shire in his mind, just to come back and find out that he cannot have it anymore.

Morgoth's loss in The Sil. He pretty much provided good ground for his own destruction: if it wasn't for the destruction of BOTH Doriath and Gondolin, Earendil and Elwing would never have reached Valinor.

Sam's relationship to Gollum. Sam tries to help and protect Frodo. He is suspicious of Gollum, sometimes insulting him. If he wasn't so offensive, maybe it would help Frodo more in "taming" Gollum and bringing the Smeagol out of him. That almost happened (when Frodo was asleep and Gollum was reaching for him with a sad look) but Sam stopped it from happening, unconciously.

Starved "Fatty" Bolger. Need I explain?

Gorbag. "Orc philosopher" sounds more than a bit oxymoron-ic, doesn't it?

And related to that, "the great Elf warrior with a bright sword..." or some such. Also, that the orcs were afraid of him.

Pippin as Ernil i-Pheriannath. The most un-noble hobbit ever, who got this reputation only because he was with Gandalf and spoke with Denethor.

Bilbo finding the Ring. Call it fate, as Gandalf did, but it was still some situational irony on the Ring's part.