What if Bilbo (or Frodo) had TRIED to use the full power of the Ring?

[Sardy]

Silly as it may sound, I just picked up "The Hobbit" Playstation game to play with my son (whom I've been reading The Hobbit to, and he is loving!)... in the game (as in the book) Bilbo can use the ring to turn invisible and get out of some sticky situations. Playing this aspect of the game got me thinking...

Suppose Bilbo or Frodo had known the full history and power of the Ring... And suppose (let's for just a moment let them go "out of character") that they had decided to attempt to use the Ring to it's full power, or the full extant of their abilities, and to evil purpose...

Just how powerful might the Hobbits have become, assuming their willingness to turn to evil? With a bit of practice, what powers/abilities might the Ring-bearers have wielded?

To take the hypothetical even just a it further, how might the story have changed if the Fellowship (and the White Council) found themselves unexpectedly dealing a power-mad, Ring-wielding hobbit?

[Raynor]

Just how powerful might the Hobbits have become, assuming their willingness to turn to evil? With a bit of practice, what powers/abilities might the Ring-bearers have wielded?

The standard setting is done by Galadriel:

- ... why cannot I see all the others and know the thoughts of those that wear them?

- You have not tried, she said. Only thrice have you set the Ring upon your finger since you knew what you possessed. Do not try! It would destroy you. Did not Gandalf tell you that the rings give power according to the measure of each possessor? Before you could use that power you would need to become far stronger, and to train your will to the domination of others.

Galadriel goes on to say that Frodo can already see hidden things with keener sight, perceive her thoughts than many of the wise, and even perceive the ring of water as a star on her finger.

The most important thing would be her statement that it would destroy him. While I don't think it should be taken literally, it is the crux of the problem: who would want to be the ring's master, if that would mean loosing one's individuality, personality and free will?

According power according to one's status is also highly relevant; on the contrast, we see Gollum who would use the ring probably to only get fresh fish every day, while Sam would lead glorious armies, although all these might be induced delusions, as Tolkien notes in the letters. As powers, I would say greater phisical traits, ability to corrupt and to bend wills (already partly a prerequisite), ability to preserve (the one ring has all the powers of the lesser ones), and, frankly, I don't know much else.

Concerning the story, I think the others would have been force to take the ring from him, or to take him down, as tragic as either would have been. Then again, even if Frodo would escape this, he might still just wander around, kissing the ring, doing, basically nothing. He is a hobbit; he might throw stones farther and better, but maybe not much more, even if he was able to, theoretically. I think he would be ridiculed by others if he tried to use the ring to early, and loose confidence in it or him.

[Sardy]

Originally Posted by Raynor

The most important thing would be her statement that it would destroy him. While I don't think it should be taken literally, it is the crux of the problem: who would want to be the ring's master, if that would mean loosing one's individuality, personality and free will?

Well, Sauron for one... Smeagol for another. ? The loss of individuality and relinguishing of free will, I think, are a slippery slope in the promise of great power...

I agree that Galadriel's warning that to use the Ring would destroy Frodo should not be taken literally... that he *might* use it to great effect, and at the loss of his innocence and free will... but I am curious to consider what lengths Frodo and Bilbo might have gone (had they not been such good-hearted heroes) if they had chosen the path of the Ring...

[Raynor]

Well, Sauron for one

I disagree with this bit. Although we might argue that Sauron was enthralled by the idea of possessiveness and dominion, the ring itself didn't subjugated him. He was the ring's "rightfull", and actual, master.

[Farael]

Originally Posted by Sardy

I am curious to consider what lengths Frodo and Bilbo might have gone (had they not been such good-hearted heroes) if they had chosen the path of the Ring...

Truth is, if Frodo had tried to use the Ring, the minions of Sauron would have been alerted and he would have been overcome before you can say "was that black rider a Nazghul?"

Assuming that this for some strange reason does not happen, they would have still not become great and powerful rulers of vast armies. It is said once and again that the Ring gave its wearer power according to their stature. We already have an example of a hobbit-like individual trying to actively use the Ring for his own purpose... and I don't see Gollum leading any armies.

You could still argue that Gollum did not TRY to get any armies, thus he got none.... but who could have either of the two Hobbits commanded?

I'd say that (at least in the beginning) they would have only been able to command their equals or inferiors... which means other hobbits and perhaps men from Bree and the like. I highly doubt that they would have had much of an edge against say... a Dunedain like Aragorn.

I also doubt that they would have been able to rule over orcs and trolls and Nazghul. We see that both Sauron and Morgoth, beings of infinitely more inherent 'power' than a hobbit are diminished by their efforts of ruling other species. They become weaker and "more bound to the (Middle-)Earth". How much of this "power" did a hobbit have to spend? I don't know for sure, but I'd guess slim to none.

And I believe that this is where the "The Ring gives it's wearer power according to their stature" statement kicks in. The Ring would not give them "extra" power (not much, anyway). Instead, it would amplify their existing power. For inherently powerful beings such as Sauron or Gandalf, this would certainly be a huge different. For beings that did not have this, it would still make them greater but to a point.

I have to go now, or else I'll be late for lecture, but to wrap up my post, if either Hobbit would have used The Ring, odds are that one of Sauron's slaves would have taken it from him. Even if that had not happened at first, neither of the two hobbits would have been able to become a great and powerful warlord, strong enough to defeat Sauron when he comes (along with a few armies of orcs and other nasties) to claim what he wants.

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Farael

I also doubt that they would have been able to rule over orcs and trolls and Nazghul.

Well, Tolkien does admit this as a possibility when he speculates in the letters about a possible confrontation at Mount Doom between Frodo and the nazgul, if the ring was not destroyed

Originally Posted by Letter #246

He needed time, much time, before he could control the Ring or (which in such a case is the same) before it could control him; before his will and arrogance could grow to a stature in which he could dominate other major hostile wills. Even so for a long time his acts and commands would still have to seem 'good' to him, to be for the benefit of others beside himself.

[The Might]

Letter #246 was just what I was going to mention after reading through the thread.
However the outcome would be clear - if Frodo had taken the Ring Sauron would have eventually come himself to Mount Doom and would have claimed the Ring
Also, Tolkien explores another possibilty. He says that if Gollum had indeed repented for his deeds, as it seemed earlier near Cirith Ungol, he might have taken the Ring from Frodo and would have cast himself in Mount Doom willfully in order to save Frodo, thus also defeating Sauron.

If Frodo had claimed the Ring somewhere else in ME I am not so sure what the outcome would have been. It could be that the wise would have been able to intervene in time and take the Ring away, but you never know. If he would be able to keep it I guess he wouldn't have great plans, he never really had dreams of glory and power. Probably he would end up similar to Gollum.