Morgoth's curse - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Elmo · 02-20-2007, 10:18 AM

I am the only one (except Hurin) who has noticed the contradiction in the Elvish 'lore' of the Silmarillion. Doesn't Melkor lose all his ability to influence events without his body on Arda unlike the rest of the Valar like Hurin states when he is mocking him. But how is he able to give Turin such a hard time in the Narn i hin Hurin? If he can affect events without being there in person at least at the time of the Narn. That brings many questions like why didn't he curse more people like say Gil-galad or maybe Tuor or Earendil who eventually brought his downfall and also if the Elves were wrong about Melkor's impotence in this respect what else have they been wrong about in writing the lore?

Gil-Galad · 02-20-2007, 10:54 AM

Well, my take on curses, is that a curse can only work if the person gaining hte curse has dealt such an physical or emotional blow to the person for the curse to manifest.

Don't forget about the many differences of men and Elves, the Elvs could have some spiritual defense againest curses while men such as Hurin, could not benefit from that.

The elves such as Gil-galad and Turgon were more resolute againest the scourge of morgoth.

i hope that makes sense...

Men have weaker spirit then elves

Raynor · 02-20-2007, 11:39 AM

A curse is not dependant on the one who made it to be still alive - or even to be very powerful. We have both the curses of Isildur and of Mim working after their deaths, and none of them, esspecially the dwarf, can compare with Melkor in might. I believe this has to do with the magic of words, to which Tom alludes when talking to the hobbits. Words have been often use; we see Sauron defeating Finrod in songs of power and making the One Ring, again with the use of words; we also have the words of command of Gandalf, and the songs of the barrow-wights or of Tom - I am sure this art is taken to another level by Melkor, who corrupted all the matter of Arda, getting a grip on all embodied beings. This grip may be more powerful than using curses on particular beings - so it may not worth the time spending doing them. Unless we talk about Hurin

.

02-20-2007, 10:18 AM	#1
Elmo Pittodrie Poltergeist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again Posts: 633	Morgoth's curse I am the only one (except Hurin) who has noticed the contradiction in the Elvish 'lore' of the Silmarillion. Doesn't Melkor lose all his ability to influence events without his body on Arda unlike the rest of the Valar like Hurin states when he is mocking him. But how is he able to give Turin such a hard time in the Narn i hin Hurin? If he can affect events without being there in person at least at the time of the Narn. That brings many questions like why didn't he curse more people like say Gil-galad or maybe Tuor or Earendil who eventually brought his downfall and also if the Elves were wrong about Melkor's impotence in this respect what else have they been wrong about in writing the lore? __________________ As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.

02-20-2007, 10:54 AM	#2
Gil-Galad Psyche of Prince Immortal Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis Posts: 4,734	Well, my take on curses, is that a curse can only work if the person gaining hte curse has dealt such an physical or emotional blow to the person for the curse to manifest. Don't forget about the many differences of men and Elves, the Elvs could have some spiritual defense againest curses while men such as Hurin, could not benefit from that. The elves such as Gil-galad and Turgon were more resolute againest the scourge of morgoth. i hope that makes sense... Men have weaker spirit then elves __________________ Love doesn't blow up and get killed.

02-20-2007, 11:39 AM	#3
Raynor Eagle of the Star Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sarmisegethuza Posts: 1,058	A curse is not dependant on the one who made it to be still alive - or even to be very powerful. We have both the curses of Isildur and of Mim working after their deaths, and none of them, esspecially the dwarf, can compare with Melkor in might. I believe this has to do with the magic of words, to which Tom alludes when talking to the hobbits. Words have been often use; we see Sauron defeating Finrod in songs of power and making the One Ring, again with the use of words; we also have the words of command of Gandalf, and the songs of the barrow-wights or of Tom - I am sure this art is taken to another level by Melkor, who corrupted all the matter of Arda, getting a grip on all embodied beings. This grip may be more powerful than using curses on particular beings - so it may not worth the time spending doing them. Unless we talk about Hurin . __________________ "May the wicked become good. May the good obtain peace. May the peaceful be freed from bonds. May the freed set others free."