all British tolkienites HERE

[Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1]

I did. I also watched the Wuthering Heights one...and Catch-22, which I didn't get.
I was glad when he FINALLY said that Tolkien denied it was about WW2 etc...those shots of Hitler at the Nuremburg (sp?) rallies were beginning to get to me. Although I disagreed when he said the Lord of the Rings was whoever held the Ring...I thought Gandalf had corrected Pippin on this point in Rivendell?
I haven't got round to voting yet. I am glad to see we're still ahead!!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
Wuthering Heights is amazing, by the way...if you haven't read it yet, you must!!!

[Daisy Brambleburr]

I can imagine that it was a very hard job to cover LotR in half an hour. I wouldn't know where to start!

Although I disagreed when he said the Lord of the Rings was whoever held the Ring...I thought Gandalf had corrected Pippin on this point in Rivendell?

That's what I thought. I'm stil not sure why he said that, actually. Anyone care to shed a bit of light?

Did you think that the connection with the countryside was emphasised a bit too much? It seemed to be important to Ray Mears anyway. I wouldn't have chosen to say so much about it, but that's just me. I liked how they had a lot of quotes and readings from the book. It would have been cool to have seen some re-enactments, like in Wuthering Heights, but I'm not sure if that would have worked. I'd have used more images (atrwork, etc) and definatley some shots of the map of Middle Earth.

I thought the Wuthering Heights section was very good. Made me want to read it. Perhaps I will, when I'm done with the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.

[Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1]

Well, the countryside thing would be very important to RM...he is a 'survival expert'!!! I don't know...I understood his point...but he did emphasise it rather a lot...I personally thought it was a shame they didn't use Andy Serkis' voice for Gollum. And my dad thought someone like Christopher Lee should have presented it...although perhaps he is a tad old to go tramping round the countryside... [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] How old is he now???

[the guy who be short]

Ah yes, I watched it. I thought it was generally good, better than I was expecting from Ray Mears. The main points I disagreed with tere the above stated "Lord ofthe Ring," and the voice of on Bombadil - he is meant to be jolly!
LotR has remained at the top since the beginning of the voting, and I am now confident of its victory. I enjoyed Ray Mears comparing describing LotR in half an hour to holding a waterfall in his hands - it was so true, there's too much to describe. I also liked how he mentioned "not characters, but entire new civilisations and languages."

By the way, I have noticed the consistent arguing on this thread, and whilst I have my own opinons I am not going to view them. I merely ask you all to stop arguing and make your peace, so we can all enjoy a simple discussion again.

[Failivrin]

i thought the waterfall analogy was really nice too.

i did think, however that he overemphasised both the connection to nature (though very important) and also FRODO! he constantly talked about frodo the hero but completely shied away from most of the fellowship, not even mentioning their names. i doubt i could have done much better but i would have mentioned aragorn to illustrate how first impressions are not always as they seem and boromir to show exactly HOW the ring corrupts good. his gollum impression was pretty spiffy [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

i htought they wuthering heights one was good too.

[The Saucepan Man]

To be honest, I thought that Ray Mears did a very good job. Much better than I was expecting. As Daisy said, it is impossible to deal with the merits of LotR in half an hour. There are so many themes to address, and so he chose that which means most to him and emphasised the connection with nature. There are themes in the book which mean more to me, but that is certainly one of the main themes and I can understand why he chose to emphasise it.

For similar reasons, I can understand why he concentrated on Frodo, his journey and his struggle with the Ring. After all, that is the central story, and there was not time to address all the related sub-plots. I did notice the absence of Aragorn, but it would, I think, have detracted from what he did say to have tried to cover Aragorn's story too, not to mention the many other characters that had no mention.

Although I disagreed when he said the Lord of the Rings was whoever held the Ring...

Yes, like the rest of you, I noticed that. But I wouldn't have noticed it had it not been for a discussion of the point on this very forum some months back. So I don't see it as a major criticism.

I was glad when he FINALLY said that Tolkien denied it was about WW2 etc...those shots of Hitler at the Nuremburg (sp?) rallies were beginning to get to me.

Again, I had much the same reaction, Elentári. But I think that this was more a problem with the programme-makers choosing these shots to trail the piece. Thankfully, Mears made the point that Tolkien denied any allegory with WW2, and also that WW1 probably had much more of an influence on Tolkien's writings. This, and some of the other things that he said, did reassure me that he does have an appreciation of Tolkien's works that derives from more than just reading LotR.

One excellent point which I thought that he made was that this is a book which cries out to be read, making the comparison in this regard with ancient epics. So, on this basis, I think that he was right to read extracts from it himself (and he did do a fairly good Gollum voice [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] ). Personally, I would not have chosen to recite a verse of Tom Bombadil's poetry if I was trying to persuade people to read the book, but maybe that's just me.

I do wonder, however, how much a piece like this will persuade people to read the book if they have not already read it. It appears that, from what the librarian they had on was saying, the whole Big Read thing has prompted people to read the books on the list (and LotR particularly so, it would seem). But I wonder if Ray Mears himself will have had much effect in this regard.

Personally, I have not been persuaded by anything that I have seen to read any of the books on the shortlist (or even in the top 100) that I have not already read. Although Alastair McGowan's excellent piece on Wuthering Heights has persuaded me that I ought to read it again. But then, it is already in my top 10.

Nevertheless, it does seem that the Big Read has had an effect in persuading people to read more books. Which can only be a good thing.

[ November 16, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I'm not sure about Ray Mears' Russian accent for Gollum. And I didn't like how he called the Ents 'trees'. But other than that he did alright. Lets be honest, it was a pretty hard task for the guy.

[Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1]

Argh, that sing-song Tom Bombadil! I was cringing for the guy...just think about it, such ridiculous lyrics, and singing them... [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

And what exactly would you classify the Ents as? I thought they were spirits embedded in the trees, and so walking talking trees sounds like a pretty good definition to me...
[img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] Pray enlighten me!!!

[Daisy Brambleburr]

I liked his waterfall analogy as well. Very appropriate. And his Gollum voice was good [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I must say I was a little confused about his choice to include Tom Bombadil, it seemed a little random when he didn't say anything about Aragorn or the rest of the Fellowship. But I liked the way he spoke about Gandalf, 'he's like everyone's favorite uncle', or something similar.

Elentari, Christopher Lee is 81. I'd never have guessed myself, I was very surprised when I heard.

[The Saucepan Man]

Linda Smith (her of the "Big Read" TV panel) was on Room 101 (a UK comedy programme) tonight. Once again, she took the opportunity to bash LotR, labelling it as a book that only "engineering students called Dave read" and describing it as absolute rubbish. She certainly displays a complete lack of any understanding of the book, and so one can only assume that she has never read it. In which case, she only makes herself look rather silly by describing a book that she has never read as absolute rubbish.

But, given that this is the second time in the space of a month that she has gone out of the way to rubbish the book on television, I do wonder whether she has some personal reason for disliking it so much. Perhaps she was attacked by a rare first edition in her childhood. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1]

Yeah, Saucy, I expect you're right....

Wow! I didn't realise he was that old!!!!!!!! [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] Fancy being able to act at that age...

Engineering students called Dave.
Right.
Hands up if that describes you!!!!!!
(Well that isn't me for one...I'm a girl, and I don't study engineering!)

[Daisy Brambleburr]

I'd bet that the woman who rubbishes LotR basically doesn't understand it. My mum sometimes does stuff like that, she says 'what I don't understand is why they can't just *hide* the Ring, or throw it in the bin or something'. But this woman probably hasn't read it, fantasy isn't her thing and she can't comprehend the hype that surrounds it, so she insults it, which is the wrong thing to do. If you're determind to hate a book, at least read it first! Maybe she thinks she's being funny or something...

[ElentariGreenleaf]

*sigh* I always seem to miss LotR things on the tv... I'm either out, didn't hear about it or it's on sky. It so happened that when the Big Read was on I was online posting on LotR forums. Oh well... it couldn't have been that good to watch... could it?

[The Saucepan Man]

Linda Smith is on "QI" on BBC2 tonight (actually a rather good programme). If she takes the opportunity yet again to rubbish LotR, we'll know she's obsessed. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[the guy who be short]

Well, I am an engineering student, but my name is David, not Dave. Idiot woman. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Has anybody noticed how LotR has stayed first over all the weeks of the Big Read? Opinions on why?

[Daisy Brambleburr]

I guess that LotR is staying top because a)It's a wholly brilliant book, b) the fans who enjoy it love it wholeheartedly and are persistant enough to vote every week and c) the movies may have something to do with it as well [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Well, I am an engineering student, but my name is David, not Dave. Idiot woman.

[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] lol

[Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1]

Ah well, close enough, guy who be short!!!

So, did you watch that thing on BBC2? I didn't, having only just found out about it...Did she rubbish it again?
Did everyone watch the rugby?! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Meela]

I can't vote yet [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] I voted about 10 times last week for WH, now I have to wait.

I haven't been watching the programs, just the adverts for them.

I didn't see the rugby, but I did cry. I'm on the Aussie side. I was heck of a disappointed when I heard they lost. But I did read some amusing jokes in the paper.

[ElentariGreenleaf]

I know this isn't about the big read (which I guess is the main topic of this thread) But.... On the Radio 1 breakfast show on monday (perhaps all week too) there's a chance to win tickets to the world premier of RotK, which is in new zealand! I wish I didn't have school, then I'd try to win!

[dragoneyes]

given that this is the second time in the space of a month

That was the SECOND time? I was really annoyed when she said that. BUT, she resisted it on QI. Thank goodness she wasn't there when they were talking about 'Steve Peregrin Took' from T-Rex.

[Bêthberry]

She certainly displays a complete lack of any understanding of the book, and so one can only assume that she has never read it. In which case, she only makes herself look rather silly by describing a book that she has never read as absolute rubbish.

But, given that this is the second time in the space of a month that she has gone out of the way to rubbish the book on television, I do wonder whether she has some personal reason for disliking it so much. Perhaps she was attacked by a rare first edition in her childhood. <http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/smilies/biggrin.gif>

I don't know, Sauce, in my years teaching university I was given many a paper which suggested the writers had never read the book. [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

I think it's all a rather clever marketing ploy, likely for the movie. You know, bad publicity is better than no publicity at all. Baiting fans and all to get a reaction. etc. etc. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[ November 22, 2003: Message edited by: Bêthberry ]

[Failivrin]

i didn't watch the rugby, despite my year head imploring me to in assembly.

[Everdawn]

I didn't see the rugby, but I did cry. I'm on the Aussie side. I was heck of a disappointed when I heard they lost.

I cried. My whole house was silent for about an hour after the whistle blew, no one could speak. Anyhow,

Congratz to the Brits!

Take Bill and keep him safe, (by Bill i mean the trophy) We will see you in France 2007.

[Sharkû]

Off topic, a horse's hair away from getting closed.

[Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1]

Oops...and don't congratulate the Brits, only England wanted England to win!

Back on topic...I really have to get round to voting again for this week...
How many people here actually vote more than once a week?

[Meela]

I've tried, but it doesn't let me.

I just went to the site and I was allowed to vote again. I got 5 votes in before it stopped me.

[ November 23, 2003: Message edited by: Meela ]

[Daisy Brambleburr]

Back on topic...I really have to get round to voting again for this week...
How many people here actually vote more than once a week?

I think that you can only vote one time a week, so that's what I do. I'm afraid to say that my loyalties are somewhat split, I've voted for LotR one or two times, but I've also voted for the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy quite a lot. I want both of them to win! LotR is 1st (still) but Hitchhikers is creeping up to third place. It'd be great if my two favorite books were 1st and 2nd (with Winnie the Pooh third).
Quick comment on the show yesterday, Alan Titschmarsh made me really want to read Rebecca. It looks like a very creepy book.

[The Saucepan Man]

Did everyone watch the rugby?!

I'll let my sig speak for itself. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] (sorry Sharkû)

BUT, she resisted it on QI.

She wouldn't have dared say anything with Bill Baily there. I undersatnd that he is half-Hobbit. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

I think it's all a rather clever marketing ploy, likely for the movie.

I suspect not, Bb, given that the programmes in question are not exactly ones with mass appeal. Alas, I feel that Linda Smith's vitriol is genuine (if wholly misplaced). [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

How many people here actually vote more than once a week?

Being the law-abiding person that I am, I am sticking to voting once per week. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

I'm afraid to say that my loyalties are somewhat split, I've voted for LotR one or two times, but I've also voted for the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy quite a lot.

But you are supposed to be voting for your favourite book. Does this mean that they are your equal favourites? I suppose that there is nothing wrong with voting for your favourite books. Perhaps I should put in a few votes for Hitchhiker's Guide and Wuthering Heights. Then again, LotR is my clear favourite, so I think that I will stick to voting for it alone.

[Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1]

Yeah Saucy...I was going to remind you about your sig, because when I posted here earlier today, it still said England v Australia!!! Great match, wasn't it...

I'm not a very law-abiding citizen...I vote for it as many times as the computer will let me... [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] (about 5). I would vote for Wuthering Heights...but...I like LOTR more! But still, WH is amazing...oh I don't know! I couldn't stand Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy...I never finished it...I got to the point where the plane is waiting for lemon handkerchiefs to arrive or something...just after someone has gone into this place which shows how small you are in relation to the rest of the universe. Ok, did that make any sense? Probably I'm totally confused, but never mind.

[Daisy Brambleburr]

But you are supposed to be voting for your favourite book. Does this mean that they are your equal favourites? I suppose that there is nothing wrong with voting for your favourite books. Perhaps I should put in a few votes for Hitchhiker's Guide and Wuthering Heights. Then again, LotR is my clear favourite, so I think that I will stick to voting for it alone.

*Sheepish grin* yeah I know it's supposed to be your favorite book, but I really can't make up my mind. If I didn't put a few votes in for Hitchhikers I would feel terribly guilty. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ November 24, 2003: Message edited by: Daisy Brambleburr ]

[the guy who be short]

Harry Potter gets its slot tonight. I hope this doesn't amount to anything.

[Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1]

Yeah...I read some review on the Big Read, and it said the only decent slot was the one on Little Women. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] I like that book! But yeah, I don't think that'll be much of a threat. The reviewer didn't think HP would make many people vote because it would not awake a sense of nostalgia in adults. Or something. And also, a lot of the HP fans are fairly young...how many of them are going to stay up to watch this?

[Nienna, sister of Feanturi]

I got really annoyed watching 'The Big Read.' Most of those 'experts' in the discussion room obviously didn't have a clue what they were talking about. They all had a huge downer on Harry Potter simply because it was popular. One man admitted he had only read the first page, and then went on to say JK Rowling couldn't write to save her life- how does he kow if he hasn't read it properly? There was that irritating man saying airily about lotr "oh, it's not very profound" The thing about lotr is it creates it's own world- and the reader only gets out from it what it puts in. That's why it can mean so many different things to different people. Unlike a lot of writers Tolkien doesn't force feed his beliefs down the reader's throats. Speaking of which did anyone notice that CS Lewis' books were criticised for having a christian agenda, whereas Pullman's trilogy 'promoted an atheist view of the world.'? If Lewis was trying to infuence the reader to his point of view so was Pullman. Don't you hate it when people have double standards, like that?

[Daisy Brambleburr]

The panel did annoy me a lot, as I've already said. Surely you can't have much of an opinion on a book if you haven't actually read it?

And also, a lot of the HP fans are fairly young...how many of them are going to stay up to watch this?

The show was put on earlier than usual. Unfortunatey, this made me miss most of Harry Potter before I realised. I didn't watch Wind in the Willows (never really liked that book) but I didn watch the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. I think they did a good job, but what was with the freaky puppets? Have I missed something?

And LotR was still in the lead, with Pride and Prejudice second.

[Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1]

You get double standards in quite a lot of things though...why on earth was it shown earlier? It can't have been simply for HP fans! I like HP too, though the hype here has been absolutely crazy...and I still thought the third one was the best. Which was on the list?
Hey, at least we're still in the lead! How long left?

[dragoneyes]

May I be the first to say: Go Lord of the Rings! Even though there were certain less than friendly comments aimed at it right up until the end (I'm looking at the man on the His Dark Materials pannel).

My aunt really didn't agree with the outcome though and I must say it probably wasn't all that fair. Meh, I'm still happy we won.

[ElentariGreenleaf]

Woo! LotR won! I can't believe Pride and Predjudice came second... I know it's a good book and all, but come on! Some of the others deserved 2nd more.

Me and mum only voted to make sure LotR beat P&P

[The Saucepan Man]

It seemed to be a fairly foregone conclusion from an early stage, but well done Lord of the Rings. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Final result:

1. The Lord of the Rings
2. Pride and Prejudice
3. His Dark Materials
4. The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
5. Harry Potter

Personally I thought that it was a great shame that LotR seemed to generate so much antipathy amongst the "literati" on the panels and in the audience. Of the main panel, I felt that they were struggling to say something good about it (which was not the case with the other books in the top 5), and Bonnie whatsername even admitted that she had not read it all the way through. And it seemed that the supporters of most of the other books in the top 5 were all simply trying to argue that their favourite book deserved to win because it is better than LotR.

I found the boos and the snide comments (many of them from Clive Anderson, who was supposed to be the impartial host) rather pathetic. They were just annoyed because they felt that some so-called "great work of literature" (ie Pride and Prejudice) deserved to win rather than a "mere fantasy book". Well, sorry folks, but this was all about Britain's favourite book, not the greatest work of literature judged by some crusty old academic standard.

This whole stereotypical view of LotR as a "boy's book" for adolescent geeks fixated on Dungeons & Dragons is becoming such old hat, and yet still they pump it out. I may be wrong, but I suspect that there are at least as many female members of the Downs as males, if not more.

And I just don't buy this argument that LotR only won because of the films and repeat votes from young internet users. If such factors really counted, then Harry Potter wouldn't have been (quite rightly, in my view) beaten into 6th place by the Hitchhiker's Guide. And, as has been said previously on this thread (and was pointed out in the programme itself), LotR has consistently topped these kinds of polls, and was doing so way before the films came out.

Kudos to Simon Tolkien for his warm comments about his grandfather and for putting down the perpetrators of the snide comments and the gripers with a great quote from the great man himself. [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 7:48 PM December 13, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]

[Olorin_TLA]

Frodo won!

There were the others sniping away all program long, but the Tolkienites rose above it, just like Frodo would.

Oh, and we won! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Luthien_ Tinuviel]

All I can say is: Yay! I didn't think it right for me to vote, as I'm not British, but I have been interested as to the results. And now that they're in, I'm very pleased that LOTR has tooped yet another poll. It amazes me how people can think that it's "poor escapist literature", and some think it hardly worthy to call literature. At least the people like it!

I may be wrong, but I suspect that there are at least as many female members of the Downs as males, if not more.

I've wondered about this myself. I think there might actually be more female members than there are males, completely vanquishing the "boy's book" streotype that I used to encounter.