Tol-in-Gaurhoth XXII: Hic Monstrae Trucidant

[Cailín]

Just quickly popping in to let you know I'll be active a bit later tonight... I first have to finish this Irish Law project otherwise I'll die. Um, sort of.

And a quick question: Mormegil and Spawn voice suspicion of TGWBS and I'd like to know their reasoning behind this, because either I missed or there never was a case against him...

[Durelin]

*basks in all the attention she is getting for the moment*

Anyway... I wanted to pop in just to make one observation, as unfortunately that is all I have time for right now. But I will return; I assure you all. I just wanted to make note of a possible connection between SPaMan and Boro-man's death. It's really rather silly, and maybe so glaringly obvious that it should not even be considered, but it's all I've got right now.

Saucie decidedly defended Boro, and Boro turns out innocent. Isn't it possible that this was set up so that Sauce turned out looking good? Of course, he could not be sure if his attempts to persuade, genuine or not, would not work, and so I suppose there had to be a lynch plan B. Was that Formendacil, maybe? That would be to obvious...

Of course, if Saucie is wolfish, then it might be that this contradicts my suspicion of tom bombariffic, who is suspicious of Saucie, but then, why would any wolves risk working outwardly unified?

This is just me thinking aloud...

*ninjas off*

[littlemanpoet]

Spawn's rather diatribic reaction to my (retractable) vote for her leaves me more dubious regarding her than before. She doth protest too much, methinks. 'Nuff said for now.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by mormegil

I never mind a bit of suspicion about me but Thinlo your desire to grasp at any straw that might be moderately suspicious is in itself rather suspicious to me. If memory serves me well you did this yesterday with Boromir.

Grasp any straw that might be moderately suspicious? Morm, have you ever heard that you have to suspect somebody in ww since not everyone is innocent? Good heavens, I have to vote somebody. And I think it's better to vote someone you suspect a little bit than throw a random vote. Anyway, I understand that it's a matter of opinion, so...

Originally Posted by morm

...one thing that sticks out to me is you and your desire to twist and turn everything said and done. Your interaction with SpM yesterday shocked me at how you would twist his words and weren't willing to understand what he was saying.

Well, I didn't quite get some of his points. Maybe I'm stupid. Or maybe he can't explain so that I can understand. If I twisted his words, like you said, it was unintentional. If you want to show me the passages I did so in your opinion I'm only glad to explain/correct you or admit my mistake, if I've misunderstood something. For I can't know what passages you mean. And if I was aggressive towards SPM yesterday, it was because I suspected him because I felt he twisted my words, and other people's as well.

but she seems a bit edgier than usual.

Maybe I'm finally taking after my dad and his well-known aggressiveness...

[the guy who be short]

Originally Posted by SpM

Actually, that was addressed to Caran.

Oh. Now I look stupid. Thank you.

Originally Posted by Cailin

And a quick question: Mormegil and Spawn voice suspicion of TGWBS and I'd like to know their reasoning behind this, because either I missed or there never was a case against him...

I didn't notice her Spawniness, but the Monkey Man seems rather reluctant to voice his worries whilst maintaining me on his likely to be lupine list.

As for SpM-Boro. That could just be a clever SpM. To be honest, I've resigned myself to not knowing what SpM is and largely ignoring him in my analyses. He's too tricksey.


In other news, I saw a Pinsir today, which was rather exciting as they are quite rare. Malheureusement, it fainted afore I could catch it.

Pokemon! Attrapez-les tous!

What? No in-character posts after day one? Are you all completely barking?
Like Growlithe? This is far too much fun to give up.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Ooh, Saucie's thinking about me. It's okay, I'm used to guys thinking about me. Just no wolf-whistles, 'k love?

Seriously, though... TGWBS is currently my biggest interest.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Cailín, this is what I said about TGWBS yesterday.

TGWBS is confusing me with all those Pidgeys and stuff. I've never been a fan of Pokemon, maybe that's my problem, but to me it looks like that he's made his presence clear only with talking about those creatures. When I read his posts they have little substance in them. I believe we have another Day 1 hater here...

His random abacus told him to vote for Cailín and he is confident about his choice. He says that Sauce is being inconsistent, but wonders if he should have used smilies. His comments about other affairs of the village (votes & roles) are "don't care" and "apathetic" with a few lines of speculation.
When morm voted for him, he wanted to know morm's reason. Would it have helped if he had said that he has an abacus, too..?

Here are my thoughts from toDay.

#116 - Says that based on Day 1 only Durelin, Caran and Fin have been noticeable - Caran in a bad way.

#118 - Lists Form's posts and all who mentioned him yesterDay. Speculates why Form was killed and his conclusion is that we're on wrong track and thw wolves want to keep it that way.

Finds spawn suspicious because she casually remarked that Form wasn't acting as usual, and Cailín because she changed her opinion about Form.

#122 - Agrees with Sauce that there might not have been any wolves voting for Boro.

#154 - Says that Sauce can't afford to make mistakes because of his reputation. He's going to ignore morm, lmp, Caran and Durelin for the time being and wants to form his own conclusions about things because he doesn't know whom to trust. Thanks Cailín for replying to him.

#156 - Makes a list of posts that had something to do with Boro getting lynched.

#165 - Says that morm is rather reluctant to voice his thoughts while suspecting TGWBS. Ignores Sauce in his analyses because he's too tricky. Talks about Poke stuff.


TGWBS has posted a lot, but a big part of it is strategical talk such as why Form was killed. He mentiones some names as supicious, but doesn't really accuse anyone or make cases. At the beginning of the Day he said that Caran looked bad, but then he ignores her whereas a moment later when he had said that he'd ignore morm, TGWBS wonders his behaviour. Well, opinions do change, but he suspected Cailín for that earlier toDay...

I'm wary of people who mostly mentions some names without really stating what they think of them or analysing them, but to be fair, TGWBS promised an analysis of his list in #156, so I look forward to that. In the meantime I remain slightly suspicious of him.

Originally Posted by lmp

Spawn's rather diatribic reaction to my (retractable) vote for her leaves me more dubious regarding her than before. She doth protest too much, methinks. 'Nuff said for now.

I guess I've used to seeing you more verbose, but to me it seemed odd.

[tom bombariffic]

I've rather abandoned my big-players conspiracy having talked myself into believing SpM, and unexpected RL issues took up my morning, which I planned to spend looking at one or two others.

I have to be off in about half an hour, and will probably be voting for Caranlondien or Spawn. I'm going back now to quickly look back over their activity, may not have time to make a long analysis like I did with Sauce but will do my best.

bombariffic

[the guy who be short]

According to Mr SPaM (Hey, other people are saying it too...), Tom, Lommy, Spawn and Fin voted for Boro. Yay. A relatively small number of people to analyse.

Tom - At the time of Tom's vote, it seemed unlikely that Boro would be killed. 8 Other people had garnered one vote each. It is entirely possible that he was a wolf casting a safe vote.

Thus far, Tom has posted fice (five times).

Post 43 - He votes boro, but says "There is no real evidence against boromir." Why not vote for one of the eight others then?

And that was his only post on Day 1! Hmm.

Day 2 He makes more sense though. He makes sound points about Form's death, but largely echoes others. (Post 124). Then he vaguely accuses morm and Caran in post 146. Post 149 centres on SpM and doesn't make much sense to me - spM may be influential, but he doesn't control the village. Post 151 states the LMP and morm should explain votes, something I agree with.

Conclusion: Neutral. He makes a little sense, but I don't know what to think.

Seriously, though... TGWBS is currently my biggest interest.

What is it with girls in this village stalking me? First Kath, with her blunt admittal of "wanting me" just before she got killed, now you. And I'm not even making a pokemon use attract. You should know you can't have me...

[Thinlómien]

A lot of people are voicing suspicions of TGWBS and I can clearly see why. Relying to my lorebooks I hesitate to take sides though I'm a bit suspicious of him, since my lorebooks tell of me being quite confident of his wolvishness and contributing to his death only to find out he was an innocent. He can be quite baffling.

Morm is still think suspicious, since he has been mostly nonsense toDay as well, his latest post only naming three suspects without explanations except his counter-attack on me.

I read through Cara's posts as I said I would, and I found out that she mostly speaks nonsense (sorry, ex-sis), voices suspicions (but mainly old ones) and the only interesting point she makes is that the Changeling would probably try to take the Evil side, instead of taking the safer path.

Originally Posted by Caranlondien

...as the Changeling would likely take it as a challenge to do the more difficult thing... Who among us would read that and think, "Okay, I'll take the easy option"? No, we all want grand tales to tell at the end. And I think this Changeling is a threat because of this ego factor.

Maybe. We can't know before we know who the Changeling is. When I reread this I started to wonder if it's a wolf we see here, trying to sway the Changeling to play for the evil side...? I would also like to add the point that I wouldn't be surprised to find Cara a bold wolf.

Fea I found most baffling. She's slippy. I don't know what to make of her. She certainly needs to be watched.

Mith worries me too. She's posts pretty much, but she's quite insubstantial. Of this, if of something, could be used Sauce's term "maintaining a presence".

LMP is too a lot more nonsense than usually. I'm gradually getting more worried of him.

Someone pointed an interesting point on Cailín and her being swayed by spawn rather flip-floppily (don't say I'm not the best one to accuse anyone of flip-floppery, but I mean that whereas I tend to flip-flop, Cailín doesn't). Also, it seemed that she started to make sense after there had been worried remarks on her behaviour.

Fin feels quite innocent right now, but I'd like to mention her in this post since I have the feeling that she will fly under the radar and if she's a wolf that's a very bad thing.

Now, I see that's about half the village, if not even more. So maybe this could be of use, to arrange my thoughts and let you be aware of them:

Order of suspiciousness
Morm/Cara
LMP
Cailín/Mith
TGWBS
Fea
Fin

EDIT: xed with spawn, bomba and guy

[the guy who be short]

Originally Posted by spawn

TGWBS has posted a lot, but a big part of it is strategical talk such as why Form was killed. He mentiones some names as supicious, but doesn't really accuse anyone or make cases. At the beginning of the Day he said that Caran looked bad, but then he ignores her whereas a moment later when he had said that he'd ignore morm, TGWBS wonders his behaviour. Well, opinions do change, but he suspected Cailín for that earlier toDay...

I'm wary of people who mostly mentions some names without really stating what they think of them or analysing them, but to be fair, TGWBS promised an analysis of his list in #156, so I look forward to that. In the meantime I remain slightly suspicious of him.

I'm making "cases" at the moment, though they end up neutral often. You see, I'm rather unwilling to jump on minor details and accuse somebody of wolvery. It often ends in innocent people being hanged.

I said Caran was easily swayed by others and this was bad. This was hardly a detailed case against her and the discussion turned to more interesting matters.

I did not say I'd ignore morm, or, if I did, I didn't mean it. I meant that I would delay forming a case against him - as others have done - to allow my own ideas to develop. I have not formed a case against him, I have merely asked him to explain his perpetual distrust of me.

I suspected Cailin of being in league with you. She then responded adequately for me to change her mind. But I still think you influenced her.

[Nogrod]

Just reporting in...

Sorry about toDay so far, but I've been at work for the last 13 hours (and still have some 30+ essays to read tonight)! But now I need something completely different for a while.

I'll just check the thread and join you then.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Elempi

I know for me, and perhaps for Morm this also applies: werewolf weariness. The interest is there, but the strength of mind just is taking a little while to catch up.

Originally Posted by morm

I'm doing my morning catch up and have to say that I agree 100% with this one. I wish I could give you a big hug right now LMP because this is exactly how I feel.

What is this werewolf weariness rubbish? A man who is weary of Werewolf is weary of life!

But seriously, if you cannot find the energy to commit, you should not be in this village. Personally, even if I am weary, I cannot resist rabbiting on at length whenever I come to the village square. I generally find so much to talk about and comment on that I am almost compelled to pipe up. And morm and Elempi are usually the same. I don’t buy this werewolf fatigue thing and I am beginning to wonder if it is a tactic. Then again, they would be foolish Wolves indeed if they were both to use the same excuse for their quietitude.

Originally Posted by Lommy

What do you mean by "the main protagonist behind the briefings against Boro yesterday"? That it was mainly my fault he got lynched?

Frankly, yes. As I see it, you got into a tussle with him and so found yourself arguing against him. Then, when grounds for suspicion of him were aired, you seized on and promulgated them. Those grounds formed the main plank of the argument against him. It does not follow, of course, that you are guilty. You may just have been a misguided innocent. But, as I said, I am wary of you.

Originally Posted by spawn

Sauce still seems different from his usual self …

This seems to be said about me by someone in every village I inhabit. And they never seem to explain exactly what they mean by it.

Originally Posted by Durelin

Saucie decidedly defended Boro, and Boro turns out innocent. Isn't it possible that this was set up so that Sauce turned out looking good?

Ah yes. I wondered how long it would be before this came up. I actually indicated my belief in Boro’s likely innocence a long time before he became a serious lynch candidate and was very surprised when he ended up being lynched. Fact is, he never looked particularly guilty to me, quite the contrary, and the arguments against him always looked rather spurious. Those responsible for promulgating them are either malign or they were misguided. Besides, if I was a Wolf and had decided to align myself with an innocent Boro, I would have wanted him to stick around a lot longer than he did.

Originally Posted by Elempi

Spawn's rather diatribic reaction to my (retractable) vote for her leaves me more dubious regarding her than before. She doth protest too much, methinks.

You think so? I thought that it was a rather reasonable response. It is understandable for someone to expect some reasoning when a vote is cast for them.

Originally Posted by Cailín

And a quick question: Mormegil and Spawn voice suspicion of TGWBS and I'd like to know their reasoning behind this, because either I missed or there never was a case against him...

I am slightly uneasy about TGWBS. He contributed very little yesterday and made a “random” vote that could be interpreted as a safe Wolfish vote. And today, despite a promising start, he is failing to live up to his promise. In #154, he said that he could not trust what anyone was saying and would carry out his own analysis and reach his own conclusions. Yet, despite an a lengthy analysis of Boro’s death (#156), he seems to have come up with little to show for it so far.

My main thoughts remain with Fea, though. And no, Fea, they are not wolf-whistly thoughts (in either sense), but similar to the thoughts that might run through the mind of a mouse when eyeing up a particularly hungry cat. Has Fea actually made any contribution to this village other than reacting to some mild suspicion on Day 1 and casting an unreasoned (and safe-looking) vote for me? Because, if she has, I have not noticed it. Busy elsewhere she may be, but she still manages to pop in every so often without ever actually saying anything that might help us in catching the Wolves. She hasn’t even tried messing with our minds very much, which is unusual for her. Now she’s interested in TGWBS, but doesn’t say why. She’s unnerving and unhelpful, so I am going to revert to my original gut feeling on this.

+ + FEANOR OF THE PEREDHIL

Edit: Cross-posted with some of TGWBS's "Death of Boro" conclusions, so he has at least come up with something now in consequence of his early analysis.

[tom bombariffic]

I have to go now, and though he wasn't on my recent list of 2, I'm going for morm.

Turns out I'd misread his post earlier; I thought he was coming back after his butchery, but apparently he's not.

I am reluctant to punish him for his 'werewolf fatigue' because I can see how it would affect your enthusiasm, but somehow I just don't buy it. He took the trouble to come in and catch up reading, but then listed 3 votes without saying why.

I am still suspicious that this 'weariness' is an excuse for being a quiet wolf, and I will be voting appropriately.

++ Morm

[Crossed with SpM]

[The Saucepan Man]

Elempi => Caran (Caran-1)
Morm => Caran (Caran-2)
Elempi ≠> Caran => spawn (Carn-1, spawn-1)
Lhuna = > Durelin (Caran-1, spawn-1, Durelin-1)
Lommy => morm (Caran-1, spawn-1, Durelin-1, morm-1)
SpM => Fea (Caran-1, spawn-1, Durelin-1, morm-1, Fea-1)
Tom => morm (Caran-1, spawn-1, Durelin-1, morm-2, Fea-1)

[the guy who be short]

Second person to vote for Boro. Again, little chance of Boro being lynched at this point - SpM had three votes, Form and I two each.

However, as SpM said, Lommy seemed far too violent in her attacks on Boro. There would be no need for a wolf to be so loud or aggressive on Day 1. So, unless she's a stupid wolf, I don't see that happening.

Spawn should have been wily enough not to fall for attacking Boro, as SpM remarks. However...she put Boro in the lead, something I don't think a wolf would willingly do. But I definitely wouldn't put it past wolf-spawn.

Fin... I don't know. I don't know if she's daring enough to vote for Boro last as a wolf. I suspect not.

So I suspect spawn a little.

Now I have put my own thoughts down, I can turn to analysing mormegil, Caran and durelin, whom I am most interested in at the moment.

[Caranlondien]

The voting so far:
LMP => Caran (Caran-1)
morm => Caran (Caran-2)
LMP ≠> Caran => Spawn (Caran-1, Spawn-1)
Lhuna => Durelin (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1)
Lommy => morm (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, morm-1)
SPM => Feanor (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1)
Tom => morm (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-2)

Earlier toDay (note: before any of the voting started), my main suspects were LMP, morm, and Lommy. And by "main" suspects, I guess I really mean "minor", because I didn't have a strong feeling about any of them. Anyway, LMP and morm seem quieter than usual, but I've found their responses satisfactory, and I'm not ready to vote for either of them just now.

Lommy's latest post is back to what I rather expect from her - she accuses, in her own words, half of the village. I'm still watching her, though.

I'm glad to see Nogrod is back, because he's another I'd like to hear more from. I also have rather a bad feeling from Fea and [B]spawn... Time for analysis. I'll post them in a separate post, though... back in a minute.

EDIT: cross-posted with SpM, Tom, SpM, and TGWBS... I added the votes cast since then

EDIT2: I made a mistake in my voting list...

[Caranlondien]

Haha, I didn't even check to see if someone else had posted the voting so far... Anyway...

Fea
Day One
Post #1: Playfully accuses Boromir, Sauce, and TGWBS
#26: Playful defense of herself
#47: Says she won't participate in retractable votes; says she'll think about the changeling
#59: Says she doesn't think Kath would include clues to the wolves' identities in the narration
#107: Votes for SpM "Because I currently have nobody better to vote for."
Day Two
#139: Leaning towards innocence of SpM and lmp, therefore leaning towards listening to SpM's opinions. Reserving thoughts on Form's death and the Caran Bandwagon until she's had some sleep.

(Please let me know if I missed a post from her somewhere...) She's maintained a presence, but, well, it always just feels like she's hiding something. I guess I can only put it down to a bad vibe. She's acting how I would act if I were a wolf - short posts, commenting on what everyone else says, being very careful.

[Mithalwen]

Hi, At last I am here. Obviously having found Caran suspicious yesterday I will want to look again now that there are so many others also with this view!

Yes Cailin my vote for Fea was a bit unfair but I know she can cope and might even be insulted if I didn't think her worthy of a first day punt. I gave Caran the benefit of the doubt because I don't think our paths have crossed before.

I have had a few thoughts about this animal thing... I think Kath has either deliberately or accidentally mixed them up. Boromir, for all his fine qualities is more of a dog person than a cat person. Given his longstanding avatar, I would be very surprised if the coyote wasn't his pick not Formendacil's. Whose the Lion's was I couldn't say for sure though if the number three is significant I would make an educated guess at the Pan Man (who categorises me a little harshly as a "leech "I feel; I did an independent review of the augers and my main conclusion was that he was probably innocent ... is he grateful? No, he wants to be suspected now.... no pleasing some folk.)

Now I shall have a proper look at what has been going on.


Anyway I must have a proper look.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Caranlondien

(Please let me know if I missed a post from her somewhere...) She's maintained a presence, but, well, it always just feels like she's hiding something. I guess I can only put it down to a bad vibe. She's acting how I would act if I were a wolf - short posts, commenting on what everyone else says, being very careful.

No disrespect but judging Fea against what seems the "sensible" course is probably not helpful. I have never known a careful Fea. She is not a percentage player, especially if she is a wolf, she is a high roller and takes spectacular risks. As a result she tends to veer between breathtaking brilliance and disaster. If I find your assessment of her actions accurate, it would incline me more to think her innocent....

[Caranlondien]

Dancing Spawn
Day One
Post #11: In-character Day 1 stuff
#49: Notes that people are acting more carelessly than usual, specifically Boromir, Formendacil, and perhaps Cailín. Thinks retractable votes make it more confusing because it's harder to keep track of who has what number of votes.
#96: Comments on skirmish between Sauce and Lommy. Not very suspicious of either of them, but wary of "clueless villager" act by SpM. Comments that TGWBS doesn't seem to be posting much of substance. Says Boro twisted Lommy's words.
#105: Votes Boro, who she says has "looked the fairest but felt the foulest".
Day Two
#159: Says she won't be able to participate much toDay, and if we want to vote for her, go ahead, because she's not in the mood for caring much about it right now. Says a wolvish Caran may have thought Form was the Seer and killed him overNight. Also thinks Caran is acting insecurely. Thinks Sauce is acting differently than usual, but says she'll have to look more closely. Wishes lmp had given a better reason for his vote for her. Says Lommy looks edgier than usual. Wary of TGWBS.
#167: Re-posts for Cailín what she said about TGWBS yesterDay. Analyzes his posts toDay and says she remains suspicious of him. Responds to lmp about his vote for her.

Post #159 comforts me somewhat about her, as she says she doesn't care much if she receives votes. Of course, it would be just as easy for a wolf to say that, but she sounds genuine enough. She's another careful one, though, who I'll be watching.

So, I'm leaning towards Fea right now as my main suspect.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I hide nothing. Okay, that's a lie. But I don't hide anything that it's important for you to know. My presence over the past two days has been minimal and "unhelpful" because what I've been doing in this village is sitting back and watching. I learned in my last incarnation that the minimalist approach has me discovering wolves left and right. I'd like to continue in that vein, for the sake of the village. For anybody that's read up on their lorebooks, I identified an evil wizard and at least three werewolves in one village alone with this way of working.

While I'm not "contributing", I am learning. Watching. Seeing who accuses whom, observing actions and reactions. I'm loathe to mention any names, so I keep suspicions to myself and watch. Either you'll understand my intentions or you'll kill me. There's not a lot I can do about it either way. Until then, I'm still not going to start posting a la Spam because 1) you don't trust me and won't take my words for what they are, 2) it will clutter the thread, and 3) it would corrupt my current plan of quietly watching things. Yes. I'm very intentionally playing the role of a quiet villager. Or at least trying to do so. Let me do it in peace and I might be able to help you.

Edit: crossed with several posts

[Caranlondien]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

No disrespect but judging Fea against what seems the "sensible" course is probably not helpful. I have never known a careful Fea. She is not a percentage player, especially if she is a wolf, she is a high roller and takes spectacular risks. As a result she tends to veer between breathtaking brilliance and disaster. If I find your assessment of her actions accurate, it would incline me more to think her innocent....

Sorry, I'm not sure if I follow you. If you find my assessment of her actions accurate, you'll be more inclined to think her innocent? My analysis found her to be very careful, and you say you've never known a careful Fea. This tends to make me more suspicious of her. I do, however, see your point that theorizing about what she would do as a wolf is less accurate than actual experience with how she acts as a wolf. My lorebooks say nothing about a wolvish Fea...

EDIT: cross-posted with Fea

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Of this entire village, she with the most experience of a wolvish Fea is Mithalwen. Just thought I'd put that out there.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Fea

Until then, I'm still not going to start posting a la Spam because 1) you don't trust me and won't take my words for what they are, 2) it will clutter the thread, and 3) it would corrupt my current plan of quietly watching things. Yes. I'm very intentionally playing the role of a quiet villager. Or at least trying to do so. Let me do it in peace and I might be able to help you.

Of course, if we all did that, you would have nothing to observe.

Sorry Fea, but claiming to be sitting back and watching seems to me to be a great ploy for a Wolf to avoid saying anything which she might later regret. It may not be your usual style, as Mith noted, but that only serves to make me even more wary of you. Perhaps you fear that experience will enable us easily to spot classic Fea Wolf-play.

[Mithalwen]

To clarify, if I agree that she is being careful it would be so unlike her play as a wolf that I would be more inclined to think her innocent at least.

My alter ego modded 2 games with Fea as a wolf.... one was a bravura performance of breathtaking audacity which succeeded brilliantly. The other was a bravura perfomance of breathtaking audacity which crashed and burned. I refer you to the chronicles of the events at Midsomer Mawlin....


If she is careful and a wolf I suspect doping or that she is being palyed by a ringer.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Mith

If she is careful and a wolf I suspect doping or that she is being palyed by a ringer.

... or breathtakingly audacious in its lack of breathtaking audacity.

[Mithalwen]

Now that is the mental equivalent on a "waffer-thin mint", Sauce, you just want my head to explode trying to sort out the level of bluff.....

[Caranlondien]

Originally Posted by Fea

Of this entire village, she with the most experience of a wolvish Fea is Mithalwen. Just thought I'd put that out there.

Point taken. I do agree with SpM's argument that your behavior would make a great wolf ploy. Mith, you say Fea's last act of breathtaking audacity crashed and burned? So why would she try it again? Especially with you in the game, expecting her to behave that way?

I don't want to vote for spawn, after analyzing her. To give Fea a fair chance, I'll re-consider my previous suspicions... Lommy, morm, and lmp (my suspicion of SpM having died down somewhat). Lommy I tend to classify with spawn as someone I'll be watching but don't really want to vote for toDay. morm I definitely find suspicious, but he won't be back toDay, and I don't want to lynch him while he's gone, for obvious reasons. lmp... well his sudden change from voting for me to voting for spawn was odd. But I don't see it as a wolvish move from him. He's smart and subtle, and looking less and less wolvish as I consider him more closely.

[The Saucepan Man]

On a more serious note, you have executed a quite stunning U-turn on the subject of Fea, Mith. Yesterday, you saw fit to vote for her (in circumstances where she was unlikely to be lynched, I might add), yet today you are defending her rather doughtily. I wonder if it's possible that your vote yesterday might have been a Wolf-on-Wolf vote?

And, as Lommy noted earlier, you do rather fit the profile of one who is "maintaining a presence" without actually saying very much. Quite unusual for you.

Hmm. Much to ponder.

[Caranlondien]

++Feanor

I'll be able to pop back in a bit later, but unless a wolf confesses, I doubt I'll be changing my vote.

[Mithalwen]

I wouln't say a U turn... I was commenting on Carans statement rather than my own observations which I am too easily distracted from. There are a lot of ifs in my posts for it to be a doughty defence. And I said yesterday that I find her hard to read when I am playing. From the privileged position of a moderator, I have observed her wolf play... but obviously it is much easier to know what she is up to if you gave her her role!

Bear in mind Sauce, If I were a wolf you would almost certainly be already dead. No offence and you know it is really a compliment, but you would be my top priority to get out of the way.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Mithalwen, Saucepan, Caran... Aragorn, Boromir, Saruman.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Bear in mind Sauce, If I were a wolf you would almost certainly be already dead. No offence and you know it is really a compliment, but you would be my top priority to get out of the way.

Unless you're double-bluffing. Or unless you thought you'd profit more from keeping him alive as he gathered some suspicion yesterDay. Or unless he's your fellow wolf. One can never know.

Originally Posted by SPM, numbers added by me

1.Frankly, yes. As I see it, you got into a tussle with him and so found yourself arguing against him. 2.Then, when grounds for suspicion of him were aired, you seized on and promulgated them. Those grounds formed the main plank of the argument against him.

Hmm... first part = correct. Second part = incorrect. My timing for my vote was only because I had to leave then, if that is what you mean.

edit:xed with Fea

[Nogrod]

I’m beginnig to understand why Morm every now and then rants about people posting too much… I had to read all from the beginning and, well, it was a feat!

Let’s start with the starters. I’m still a bit confused about the wolves going for Form. If they intended to create confusion, they have succeeded quite well in that. But why did they value the overall confusion so much as to leave the numerous “strong players” in this village intact? There were a host of people who did not receive any actual suspicion on Day1 and there were so many votes given with no serious intent or with no well argumented points (Day1, yes). So most of us would not have left any obvious “track” anyway – and there probably would have been some confusion anyhow.

Bombariffic came forwards early on with a theory of the “big players” (or something) being comfortable enough to go for Form (who might get more active later on). But just looking at the list of people in this village, I just can’t see any trio formed out from there being able to be “comfortable” to just go for the confusion (or benefits that would actualize only after days).

So is there something else there after all? If on the contrary the wolves were not doing so well on Day1? Could Form’s death be seen as a well thought – and a bit risky – plot of the wolves to turn attention from what actually had been happening on Day1 that was against their interest? So that we would all be using our magnifying glasses to things relating to Form and forget something important as we were confused about the stuff we saw?

Another possibility has been voiced here already. I’m not yet sure of what to say of it but I try. So Form voted for Caran, late, with sham reasons. Then wolf-Caran killed him? Some have noted, that it would be too dangerous (and overjumpy) to go for the kill just after being voted. But what if Caran (&others) were actually thinking Form to be the seer? His late vote for Caran might be interpretated just as a sign from the Seer before the Night. If the Seer has his first dream of the wolf, he surely would like to leave a “note” of it somewhere immediately or very soon. But not in a way that would be immediately be interpreted as a Seers message: those would be read only afterwards. And that’s just too valuable information to die with. So Caran & fellows got nervous and killed him off. And anyways, if they had any reason to believe that Form was the Seer, then the sooner the better? They would have to stand before the village because of the dead Seer oneDay, and later there might be even more damage done to the wolves cause...

There is an innocent feel in Caran, but “my lorebook” tells me, she can be quite innocent looking when being a wolf – a bit more jumpy and active in this game maybe... Surely Caran should be followed.

But I see there are other things going on too...

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Unless you're double-bluffing. Or unless you thought you'd profit more from keeping him alive as he gathered some suspicion yesterDay. Or unless he's your fellow wolf. One can never know.

For most players you would be right, but with sauce the wanting him dead would override tactics...but that is academic because, I am an ordinary villager. I am now only up to page three on my review but, I am still getting bad vibes from Caran and Durelin ...... Spawn pointed the finger at both Boromir and Formendacil. THe fact that they are both dead may suggest an attempt at framing her..... or not....

Yesterday we assumed that Tom was a newcomer trying to make his mark, and therefore I excused his slightly off assessment of Boromir... newcomers are sometimes wolves.... he is pretty high on my list at the moment. Back to the review.

NB I am sorry that i wasn't here earlier ..I had to pay my chariot tax and so couldn't spend lunchtime monitoring events via my work palantir. Non payment of Chariot tax would cost this poor aura consultant more silver pennies than the chariot is worth so ....

[the guy who be short]

Only 4 posts.

#12 - Says nothing.
#86 - Votes for me with no reasoning.
#133 Votes Caran. "Somebody shows moderate suspicion of you and you over react but not in an overt fashion." Does that not make sense to anybody else?
#157 Claims Caran, Thinlo and I are his top suspects. Again, no reason for suspecting me. Accuses Thinlo of twisting words - no examples.

Really, I think this is condemning enough. If he is a wolf, good. If not, he is such an apathetic and unreasonable villager that to kill him would do us all a favour anyway.

++mormegil

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

For most players you would be right, but with sauce the wanting him dead would override tactics...

I wonder why everyone always regards Sauce that scary... I mean, he is scary, but not that scary...

I'm leaving now. My vote stays the same as I suspect morm as much as my other main suspect Cara, and I feel an innocent Cara would be more useful to the village than an innocent morm with his current behaviour.

[Nogrod]

There is interesting discussion around the behaviour of both Fea and Morm. They both are playing differently than they normally play. Fea says she’s doing it intentionally, Morm clings on lmp’s notion of WW-fatigue. Both seem dubious to me. Because:

Fea.
I have personally nothing against changing your playingstyle (some may remember that I actually suggested to the Barrow-Wight a possibility of playing with false identities to do just that safely). I myself for instance have tried to tone down my own gaming little by little – and I think I’m making some proggress (well there have been occasional setbacks but still...). But if one wants to totally turn her game upside-down, one would be wise to inform others about it before the roles are given! In-game that kind of declaration calls for suspicion, and with a reason! (And Caran had a point in #189 too). That kind of under-radar going – if you would get us to believe you long enough would be again a masterpiece of sorts (though a bit un-ethical one, but then this is WW...). So in the end, you actually hadn’t changed your style, but only from the surface: still taking huge risks!

Morm.
I agree with Spm that all this WW-fatigue stuff is nonsense. If you were fatigued with the WW, you wouldn’t be playing. Simple as that. So it might be tactics, not trying to make himself look suspicious for playing similarily as he played earlier for the succesful wolf. But Spm left one important thing out when he considered it too risky for two wolves (lmp & Morm) to adopt the same tactics. Maybe Morm just took his chance when lmp was symphatetically offering him a possible reason for his very different behaviour? Lmp might be an innocent helping the wolf-Morm unintentionally?

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Spawn pointed the finger at both Boromir and Formendacil. THe fact that they are both dead may suggest an attempt at framing her..... or not....

Are you suggesting that I was framing myself up by voting for Boromir?

Actually, Mith, I've become a bit wary of you.

#179 - Mith has just arrived and before she has even had a proper look at what's going on, she gives reasons what she is going to do next and why( "Obviously having found Caran suspicious yesterday I will want to look again now that there are so many others also with this view!") and defends herself ("Yes Cailin my vote for Fea was a bit unfair but I know she can cope and might even be insulted if I didn't think her worthy of a first day punt. I gave Caran the benefit of the doubt because I don't think our paths have crossed before.").

#192 - Then there's the "U-turn" point. Mith explained that, but it's still an interesting detail. Also,

"Bear in mind Sauce, If I were a wolf you would almost certainly be already dead. No offence and you know it is really a compliment, but you would be my top priority to get out of the way." ~Mith

The fact that Sauce is still alive doesn't really tell anything about your innocence. The wolves have to consider things such as whom the Ranger will protect and who's the Hunter, so it really isn't as simple as that, and all these 'surely I'd never act that way as a wolf' in general make me uneasy.

There's also the "maintaining presence" argument and I rather agree with that.


TGWBS, that review of morm... he really is strangely quiet. I'd assume that a wolvish morm should know better than not to start acting so differently from what we've used to seeing, but I don't get why he's behaviour has changed so drastically.

Lmp is scarily silent as well, and I'm still not contented with his "case" against me.

I, for one, understand the point of temporary tiredness, but resting two days in a row should remove fatigue pretty well. However, if they stay up all Nights, it's no wonder that they feel sleepy on Days...