Tol-in-Gaurhoth XIX: Ang Sagang Daga, bow.

[Formendacil]

What have I missed?

Oh, more Day 1 nonsense... Well, that's not a problem...

Seriously, 'twas my plan to be on earlier, but I was foiled by a dastardly slow pizza driver, a bevy of college students, and a couple of Peruvian Llamas (well, not the Peruvian Llamas...).

Anyway, I'm back. Before the deadline too, although I should probably be looking at casting a vote...

So, let's see, if I read things aright, the votes stand as follows:

Garin - IIII
TGWBS - III
Eomer - II
Lalaith - I
LMP - I
Farael - I
Anguirel - II
Glirdan - III

Even if I haven't got it right, that's close enough...

So, my list from earlier, if I be intending to follow it, automatically excludes LMP, and... erm... no one else. Well, one down, seven to go before I find my self a vote-worthy candidate.

Garin, it seems to me, ought to be saved. As the Mod of his first game, I take an almost fatherly eye to his Tol-in-Gaurhoth career, and I must say that he seems to be playing perfectly to form.

Alas, though, that Glirdan and TGWBS are the next down the line... Glirdan also seems to be playing perfectly normally, and I'm always hesitant to vote for someone who's voted for themself- and TGWBS is, on the face of things, a very valuable player to whichever team he is on, and on the 70% or so chance that he's on the village team rather than the Werewolf one, I'd rather no lynch him just yet.

Alas, though, I have little choice if I want to save Garin. Old players will know that I judge players by how "normal" their playing style is, and both Garin and Glirdan seem completely normal.

++ The Guy Who Be Short, most regretably...

And I can but hope that Lhuna or some other late voter (IS there another voter as yet unvoted) will break the tie...

EDIT: Crossposted with a whack of people...

[SamwiseGamgee]

Well, here's the list:

Garin: 4
TGWBS: 4
Glirdan: 3
Eomer: 2
Anguriel: 2
Lalaith: 1
LMP: 1
Farael: 1

Garin, you picked me up on what you thought to be an error, but you presumed wrong. I did mean 'As Garin...', perhaps if I write it 'As per Garin...' you'll see. Whilst your pointing out my (wrongly) prseumed English errors is deeply annoying, it's not enough to make me vote for you: I think you're just being yourself!

Now, who's this bank manager going to vote for? Well, I would vote for Glirdan, but that'd put us in a double lynch situation. My reason for voting for him would have been that he cast a very suspicious, somewhat bandwagony post with no real reason for it. But I'm still stuck. Oh, dear! And now we are in a double lynch scenario! Woe, Form!

[Lhunardawen]

This could possibly put me in trouble if Garin's found indeed innocent, but I have to make a stand. I'm so sorry, Garin...

++LALAITH

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Well, I don't find any of those with the most votes very suspicious now. I shall take a moment to ponder the voting.

Cailín's vote is based on occupations. Can't tell much of it.

TGWBS' vote is based on occupations. Can't tell much of it.

Garin votes for himself in order to honour Nilp. I have no idea why he does that because later he says: "I am actually not sure what came over me, I've always held the suicidal with great contempt." A bluff? In any case, that's not very helpful a thing to do.

Lalaith votes TGWBS because he had suggested that people would do that. A somewhat safe vote which could be regarded as suspicious because her vote is based on occupations. "This copy-cat suicide outbreak seems very odd to me, anyhow." ~Lalaith

Eomer's vote is based on some master plan that I don't have time to try to understand now, so I can't tell much of it.

Kath's vote seems somewhat weird.

Originally Posted by Kath

Because (though I think this is repeating a past argument) if he's a wolf then better to get rid of him now, and if he's an innocent we won't be worrying about whether he's a wolf for the rest of the game! A hedging your bets argument it is I'll admit, but it's all I have.

As she admits, she repeats almost exactly the same words as tar-a in her past life. That reasoning got her in a bit of trouble then, but she turned out to be an innocent. Something in Kath's voting feels funny especially because if Eomer is innocent, it's good to keep him around.

tar-a's vote is probably one of the best reasoned toDay although I disagree with her.

Eonwe... Well... "I'm voting Garin and for no other reason than his placement on the list. Ha!" "The funny thing is, I started this bandwagon! Ha!" ~Eonwe
Right. I don't know why he's so cheerful and wants the 'credit' of the Garin 'bandwagon' for himself. Anyway, his reasons aren't very impressive.

Celuien's vote is reasoned, too. Doesn't look suspicious.

lmp's vote for Eomer may be a bit better reasoned than Kath's, but I don't know what to think of the fact that Eomer and lmp voted for each other like that. Maybe it's part of the 'master plan' that I didn't get yet.

Glirdan first had some kind of debate with Garin, but I'm not sure if the debate is the reason for his vote. "Well, the votes are spread to say the least, but I'm afraid that Garin's probably right, his fate is sealed. However, there is still a lot of other people who have yet to vote, so I'm probably wrong on this." ~Glirdan
I don't know what to think of this, but otherwise he has been acting like I would have assumed.

Farael votes for Anguirel because he thinks that Anguirel is a wolf faking to be a Seer? Farael's acting like I would have assumed, too, although I disagree with him. In any case, Happy Birthday!

Naria's behaviour seems typical for her although I don't like it. A safe vote with practically no reasons at all.

Caranlondien gives reasons for her vote. Good. Doesn't appear suspicious now.

Valier says that she votes for Glirdan because he seems most suspicious to her toDay, but she doesn't really give reasons why. Can't tell much of this vote.

I shall vote in a few minutes.

[SamwiseGamgee]

I can't let this happen. I don't think either of our top-vote candidates guilty, but now that we're in double-lynch territory I feel we need to get out. So, on the basis that he has confused me more than TGWBS, and confusion breeds suspicion etc:

++ GARIN

I'm sorry if you're innocent, but better two heads than one.

[Gurthang]

No time. Just got back.

++littlemanpoet

Hope I didn't miss anything important.

[Thinlómien]

I went through Glirdan's post and didn't find anything particularly suspicious. Please don't follow my example. I believe he's innocent.

EDIT: xposted with Gurthang

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

What a dilemma!

I feel that both Garin and Glirdan are innocent, just completely misled. I feel the sincerity in their posts, and I know that all the jumpiness is only normal.

Lhuna, you speak sense. I agree with your last post there, and I don't know whom to vote...

As the tie has now been taken care of, I'll vote

++Eonwe

because his reasons were just a bit too weird.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Originally Posted by SamwiseGamgee

I'm sorry if you're innocent, but better two heads than one.

Is this the kind of a wolvish slip that we're after?

[Gurthang]

Looks like the Prophet is late in arriving... (Oh, I can already hear Nilp starting off: "A Prophet is never late, nor is he early...")

Looks like Garin is going to be the one toNight. I can't say I'm excited about it, but I've got nothing to say he's innocent.

Tomorrow, I really hope to sort out all this seerness that I seem to keep coming across. I can't help but think that either Eomer or littlemanpoet are wolves, if not both.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by dancing spawn of ungoliant

Is this the kind of a wolvish slip that we're after?

Do wolves have two heads then?

That would explain why I can never spot them until about Day 3 or 4: I didn't know they had two heads!

Samwise: Don't worry, I get what you meant to say: one death is better than two (innocents, anyway). We won't lynch you on such meagre evidence. Today.

Maybe tomorrow...

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Do wolves have two heads then?

Well, at least they're double-faced, so yes, I assume.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by dancing spawn of ungoliant

Well, at least they're double-faced, so yes, I assume.

So the Roman god Janus was the patron of Werewolves then? Or just of Tol-in-Gaurhoth games in general?

Fascinating stuff, history- especially when you're making it up.

Well, good village, I'm off to bed. I shall see most of thee on the morrow, I hope and pray.

Elbereth be with you all!

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Suddenly, an angel appeared before the village, and said, 'Fear not, for I have come to end the DAY. But I have come late, for I have battled with the spirit of drowsiness and have just now won. The DAY will end now.'

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Two of the villagers, the guy who be short and Garin, honoured the memory of the dead Prophet by voting for themselves. the guy who be short went so far as to campaign for votes.

'Tch, politicians,' muttered Gurthang.

'Look at my sign!' said daga'y. 'It says "Flow!" I'm a Wolf! Lynch me!'

'He's trying to divert suspicion from himself,' Lalaith said. 'He's a Wolf! Lynch him!'

'Since he's taken the place of Nilp,' said Naria, 'and I always vote for Nilp on DAY 1, I shall vote for him.'

'Yes, yes!' cried the Nilp fan, stalker, and impersonator even more fervently. 'Lynch me!'

He had almost succeeded, but Garin stole his limelight with a more effective suicide technique, practised by generations of his kin and never having failed him once:

'I'm not a wolf, but I'll vote for myself in the memory of Nilp! But alas! what has come upon me! I hate suicidals, but I have always wanted to die. But I'm innocent! Alas! Nilp fever has come upon me!'

'Maybe I can help,' said the psychiatrist Celuien. 'But no. Let's lynch you.'

'But who shall perform caesarean for me now?!' cried the midwife.

'Don't look at me, I'm Caligula, not Julius!' answered Garin. Turning to the village, he exulted over his impending death:

'Oh, yeah! I'm batting a thousand, baby!'

And with that, the village threw lances at him, trying to pop him like the boil that they thought he was. But after his death no transformation took place. The village had killed one of their own.

The scroll of the census was changed:

Nilpaurion Felagund, the Prophet of the Mod God, was lynched by suspicious means on the first NIGHT.
Garin, an Ordinary Villager, was lanced like a boil on the the first DAY.

Those alive are:

dancing spawn of ungoliant, a laundress
Kath, a turtle-farmer
Lhunardawen, a Dark Elf (literally)
Caranlondien, a lumberjack
tar-ancalime, a witch
Cailín, the town gossip
Celuien, a psychiatrist
Naria, a midwife who goes ever so slightly mad with each birth
Valier, a small, sweet sheep-shearer
Lalaith, a rich young widow
Thinlómien, a mushroom-picker
Formendacil, an unemployed person
littlemanpoet, a stone-cutter
Glirdan, an unemployed person
Farael, an escaped mental asylum internee who suffers from chronic suicidal tendency and conspiracy theories
Anguirel, a wood-madman
Eomer of the Rohirrim, the royal musician
Gurthang, an arrowsmith
the guy who be short, a Nilp fan, stalker and impersonator, also a fisherman
Eonwe, a wayfaring stranger
SamwiseGamgee, the town bank manager

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

'I defy you, barbed demon of the woods!' said Anguirel to a rock. 'Taste my blade, hedgehog!'

Characteristically, the rock did not reply. But someone else did.

'Morituri non cogitant,' a voice whispered behind him.

'Who goes there?' the woodman cried. He turned and brandished his wood-axe. 'Show your face, craven!'

There was no response, save the rustling of leaves. Small shadows approached the madman of the woods. Small spined shadows.

'Ai! Ai! The hedgehogs! They have come to unfetter their chieftain! O azure warthog! lend me your tusks!'

He rushed at the hedgehogs, essaying to smite them all down. But the hedgehogs changed shape. They grew bigger, more sinewy; fangs grew out of their mouths. They had become were-hedgehogs.

'Ah! They have sent their most savage minions! I fear them not.'

There was a great battle. Anguirel's axe sang as he had slaughtered seventy of the were-hedgehogs. But outnumbered, he was soon spent. His axe left his hand as he sank to the ground, weary and wounded. The hedgehogs gloated as they rent his body and devoured his flesh.

Behind the trees, four vile voices laughed.

The scroll of the census was changed:

Nilpaurion Felagund, the Prophet of the Mod God, was lynched by suspicious means on the first NIGHT.
Garin, an Ordinary Villager, was lanced like a boil on the the first DAY.
Anguirel, an Ordinary Villager, was massacred by were-hedgehogs on the second NIGHT.

Those alive are:

dancing spawn of ungoliant, a laundress
Kath, a turtle-farmer
Lhunardawen, a Dark Elf (literally)
Caranlondien, a lumberjack
tar-ancalime, a witch
Cailín, the town gossip
Celuien, a psychiatrist
Naria, a midwife who goes ever so slightly mad with each birth
Valier, a small, sweet sheep-shearer
Lalaith, a rich young widow
Thinlómien, a mushroom-picker
Formendacil, an unemployed person
littlemanpoet, a stone-cutter
Glirdan, an unemployed person
Farael, an escaped mental asylum internee who suffers from chronic suicidal tendency and conspiracy theories
Eomer of the Rohirrim, the royal musician
Gurthang, an arrowsmith
the guy who be short, a Nilp fan, stalker and impersonator, also a fisherman
Eonwe, a wayfaring stranger
SamwiseGamgee, the town bank manager

[Gurthang]

Well, I was actually thinking that Anguirel's ramblings might be hiding some seer's hints. Thankfully, I was mistaken. Still, this makes me want to look at Kath, as he mentioned her first, in very bold words, before she had every spoken.

But I still say we need to figure out what is going on between Eomer and LMP before anything else.

[Cailín]

I have just had time to quickly read through last night's discussion (and poor Garin - again lynched as an innocent, it seems rather harsh) and there were a few things that immediately struck me.

The exchange of votes between littlemanpoet and Eomer of the Rohirrim.

Gurthang's reaction to that, which sadly triggered little response whatsoever, presumably because people were too preoccupied with Garin's bitterness.

I don't believe in Glirdan's guilt either.

Obviously, the wolves thought they had caught a Seer in poor Anguirel, which makes Kath look rather bad. The Seers could very well have decided to reveal a wolf as soon as they had found one - sacrificing one of them for the common good. However, Ang did not pursue Kath which he would have done if he knew she was in fact a wolf. Well, he's not a Seer, so it seems like a set-up. I don't find Kath very suspicious yet.

I really need to leave now. I shall return shortly (after failing my grammar midterm) and hopefully have more helpful contributions then.

[Lhunardawen]

I agree on both counts, Gurthang. I was afraid that Anguirel might have been an extremely bold Seer; thank the Mod God he isn't.

(He just celebrated his deathday...how fitting. )

And I too am very curious to see how the Eomer-Elempi thing ends up.

Speaking of Elempi, I'm sorry sir for not making things clearer. To make up for it, I'll say that I think yesterDay's votes were spread too thin. And the fact that the threat of a double-lynch was all too near is a bit disconcerting. Hopefully toDay the votes will be a bit more concentrated, as history shows us they tend to be. I think five to six sensible votees are good enough.

I'm still very much suspicious of Lalaith for her not very well-reasoned vote against tgwbs. As a matter of fact, I think I'll be questioning those who voted for him.

[Lalaith]

Oh, what a shame about our raving woodman. I shall miss him - rather unsporting of the wolves to kill him off so soon. I'm also surprised that they fell for the seer stuff, or maybe....

Still, this makes me want to look at Kath, as he mentioned her first, in very bold words, before she had every spoken.

Why so, Gurthang? Ang obviously knew no more than any other ord - do you mean he might have inadvertantly stumbled on the truth? A risky ploy to lynch him, surely as the trail leads so obviously back to Kath.
Some other thoughts this morning.
Firstly, a brief little defence of my vote yesterday, as it clearly worried both Spawn and Lhuna. No, Spawn, my vote was not occupation-based, I was simply perturbed by the suicidal voting. And Lhuna, I know enough of twgbs to believe him quite capable of a double-bluff, or even a triple-bluff.
But hey, a little suspicion on oneself is often a good thing, helps keep one from being eaten at night.


Now, on to more important matters. Two things have occurred to me.
Firstly, we have two pairs operating here. One is a pair we are desperate to keep safe, the other most emphatically not...but it would be disastrous if we were to mistake one for the other. If an innocent ord spots what he thinks is suspicious pairwork, is it a good idea to bring this up publicly? Might this not alert the wolves to the identity of the Seer pair?

Also, I am bearing in mind that wolves can now PM each other during the day as well as the night. I think a discussion on how this could change wolf tactics might be useful, what do the rest of you think? And I would reiterate my point yesterday that I suspect the wolves will tackle the traitor problem by deciding to vote independently of each other.

Cailin, you said

There are now five (and perhaps seven, but we cannot be sure) people who know more than the rest of us

How so? I make it a definite seven - four wolves, two seers and an ord lover. Where does the five come in? Has one of us got the wrong end of the stick?

And finally....someone (Eonwe, I think) raised the question of whether the Lovers could win only together, or if they could also win individually as members of their own group (villagers or wolves). I believe the former is the case, but I'd like this clarified by our dead Prophet, too, please.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

And finally....someone (Eonwe, I think) raised the question of whether the Lovers could win only together, or if they could also win individually as members of their own group (villagers or wolves). I believe the former is the case, but I'd like this clarified by our dead Prophet, too, please. (Lalaith)

The Law from the Mod God states:

The Lovers will die together--if one is lynched, or killed by the Werewolves, or struck dead by the Mod God, the other shall join him in the gloom of underworld. They shall win if they are left together with but one person, be the survivor innocent or guilty.

[tar-ancalime]

OK, I believe the technical term for this post is "ginormous." I haven't looked at today's posts yet so I apologize if we've already decided not to do this, but I've gone through yesterday's posts and summarized Anguirel's posts, as well as others' posts that mention him.

Here's the data dump:

Anguirel:

#13 in character; anybody see any hidden messages?
#21 accuses Kath and Eomer but doesn’t seem serious; says dancing spawn has made a good point (referring to thinking of the “innocent” lover as a Cobbler, perhaps)
#37 comments on the suicidal votes
#51 says Samwise Gamgee’s case against Cailin is “patchy and bedraggled;” buys into the (completely unfounded, in my opinion) idea that there’s a connection between Valier and tgwbs; refers to Garin as “bizarre”
#54 regarding lmp: “Still, stone-cutter, I'm not a-liking your arbitrating tone of voice. ..”
#58 says (rightly, if you ask me) that it’s futile and counterproductive to focus on Lovers or Wolves
#59 reminds eonwe that the Lovers live and die together
#65 skewers Garin for his insistence that we should try to kill the Lovers in particular
#69 says he doesn’t trust Eomer; continues the interplay with lmp
#112 wants to save Garin; says Glirdan’s vote is suspicious
#115 asks Thinlomien not to vote for Garin
#118 votes for Glirdan

Others in regard to Anguirel:

Garin mentions him #24, #39 #73 for what that’s worth
Glirdan mentions him mid-rant #41 (“Seriously Ang, I’m in major agreement with you. We are the only sane people in this village.”)
Caranlondien mentions him #49; in regard to occupation only? or am i missing something?
lmp agrees with him about Samwise #52
eonwe thanks him for the reminder #60
Formendacil says he’s a “very keen player” and that he’s being more helpful than usual. Finds this odd. #64
lmp is conciliatory #67
Farael begins his misguided attack #70
Samwise defends him against Farael #71 and #74
Farael continues the offensive #72
Celuien mentions him #84; in-character only
Celuien says he’s helpful #86
Gurthang says he has seen a possible Seer hint that makes him suspicious of Ang #96
Farael votes for him #102
Caranlondien votes for him #108
Thinlomien replies to him #116; isn’t sure where her vote is going

Now, where does this get us? Several people have mentioned that they saw what might be Seer hints;Farael based his attack on what he thought were fake Seer hints. It may be that this is why Anguirel was chosen; it may be that he was chosen to set up Farael; it may be that Farael is a wolf who decided to exonerate himself with a double-cross: "But why would I go after him so strongly and then kill him that very night? I'd never be so bold!" Yeah you would.

Other theories? Anguirel had serious things to say about Samwise, lmp, and possibly Eomer. Could he have been on to something? Did he get something right, contributing to the wolves' idea that he was a Seer?

[tar-ancalime]

And now, yesterday's voting in chronological order:

Cailin-->Lalaith
"Because she is young, rich and beautiful and I just can't stand it."

tgwbs-->tgwbs
in some kind of nilpaurion emulation ceremony

Garin-->Garin
because he’s Garin?

Lalaith-->tgwbs
because he told her to

Eomer-->lmp
as part of his master plan

Kath-->Eomer
because we won’t have to worry about him if he’s dead

tar-ancalime-->Farael
because he is obscuring things

eonwe-->Garin
because he drew the wrong number in the village lottery


Celuien-->Garin
because of his bizarre reversals

lmp-->Eomer
because knowing is half the battle (“Knowing his status may be about the most useful thing that can be garnered out of Day One.”)

Glirdan-->Garin
because...why was that, exactly?

Farael-->Anguirel
for what he thinks is a fake Seer hint

Naria-->tgwbs
because he wants her to

Caranlondien-->Anguirel
because he’s “saying much while saying little”

Valier—>Glirdan;
she says it’s “hasty and safe.”

Thinlomien-->Glirdan
because “there’s something wrong with him”

Anguirel-->Glirdan
because of his vote for Garin

Formendacil-->tgwbs
to save Garin and Glirdan

Lhunadrawen-->Lalaith
“to make a stand”

Samwise-->Garin
to break the tie

Gurthang-->lmp
because...why was that, exactly?

dancing spawn-->eonwe
“because his reasons were just a bit too weird.”

[tar-ancalime]

Yeah, me again.

I finally got a chance to take a look at today's posts.

I don't think Ang's early mention of Kath has anything to do with anything. I assumed from the beginning that it was just Day 1 histrionics, and that's why in my summary I barely mentioned it. And now that he's been proven not to have been a Seer, it can't possibly mean anything. She hadn't spoken yet--he was pulling her name out of the air. She may well merit a closer look, but not for this reason.

Lalaith, you're right on here:

Firstly, we have two pairs operating here. One is a pair we are desperate to keep safe, the other most emphatically not...but it would be disastrous if we were to mistake one for the other. If an innocent ord spots what he thinks is suspicious pairwork, is it a good idea to bring this up publicly? Might this not alert the wolves to the identity of the Seer pair?

I've gotten in trouble for this in the past, but here goes again: if you think you know who the Seers are, for Varda's sake keep your trap shut! If you're right you're obviously helping the wolves by bringing it up; if you're wrong you're helping the wolves by adding a false element to the game. They can use it. They thrive on confusion.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Just now I'm most interested in what went on with Eomer and LMP yesterday. Does either of them (moreso Eomer on this front) wish to explain themself? I'm not saying they're wolves, I'm just somewhat suspicious, as any villager should be.

tar-ancalime, you make a fair point that Ang had some interesting things to say about me. And frankly, I'd probably have said the same regarding myself in the 'clutching at straws' atmosphere of day one. However, I'm less inclined to look at those who Ang accused directly. We're in a very experienced village, and I don't think the wolves would slip up like that on night one. Now, of course, I ahave just asked questions of Eomer and LMP, who were accused by Ang. However, my suspicions are not based on Ang's accusations, but rather on their suspicious actions. So, if you ask me, Lommy and Kath are probably innocent. And I am too, obviously.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Just another little one to agree with tar-ancalime: at this early stage just monitor any pairish action you think you see. This is helpful because, as t-a said, it prevents layers of falsehood building too readily but also because a longer observation period will allow you to gather more evidence and make it less likely you'll be accused and maybe lynched for making baseless accusations.

[Lalaith]

longer observation period will allow you to gather more evidence and make it less likely you'll be accused and maybe lynched for making baseless accusations

That's not the point, Samwise. The two Seers are the most important innocents. Ords being lynched are an occupational hazard, our priority is keeping the Seers safe for as long as we can.
I personally don't think any accusations about pairwork, however well-founded, should be made while both Seers remain alive.

[Lalaith]

And remember, we don't have a Ranger so an outed Seer is a defenceless Seer.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Fair point, Lalaith. Now, onto darker matters: Lhuna.

Post #123: Lhuna votes for Lalaith. Now, at the time I thought this odd, as it left the tie which Form had created (in itself suspicious) standing. However, I let it pass until post #139, where Lhuna says: 'And the fact that a double-lynch was all too near is a bit disconserting.' But obviously not all that disconserting, as you let the tie stand. What say ye, Lhuna?

[the guy who be short]

I'm back.

I'm still a wolf by the way.

I have many thoughts swirling through my head, but I will hold them for another Day.

Let me just say that we should not focus too much on the votings of the first day. There were 22 villagers, I believe, and... oh, we voted for 10 of them altogether? Impressive.

In that case, I will consider day one votes, for they will not be entirely useless.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Tar-ancalime has already gone through Anguirel's posts, but I want to do it my way, too.

Why was Anguirel killed? What did he say?

#21, pointed at Kath and Eomer.
"For one, I don't like the stamp of that musician fella."
"The varmint claims to have disguised a were-army of hedgehogs under green shells and hidden them in a turtle farm. What d'ye have to say to that, Empress Kath of the Dread Meerkat Wandering Horde? Ha ha!" ~Ang

"I don't think Ang's early mention of Kath has anything to do with anything. I assumed from the beginning that it was just Day 1 histrionics, and that's why in my summary I barely mentioned it. And now that he's been proven not to have been a Seer, it can't possibly mean anything. She hadn't spoken yet--he was pulling her name out of the air. She may well merit a closer look, but not for this reason." ~tar-ancalime

Actually, at the time when Anguirel mentioned Kath, she had already spoken.

I think it's probable that the wolves don't want to waste their time for frame-ups when there are two Seers around. The sooner the wolves get rid of the Seers, the less incriminating information there is. Possibly makes Kath or Eomer look bad. However...

"You're going to have to trust in a dour, sensible sober man of arms like me." ~Ang

Did the wolves think this was a clue that he would have been a Seer? Maybe Anguirel wasn't killed because of the people he mentioned, but the way he talked.

#51, kind of defends Cailín, but doesn't think Samwise is necessarily a wolf because of his "patchy and bedraggled attack". Comments the possibility that there's something between Valier and TGWBS.

Lots of names there, but he doesn't really accuse any of them, so I don't think the wolves would have got scared because of that post.

#54, says that he had forgot lmp, doesn't like his "arbitary tone of voice".

#69, "But I don't trust the harper [Eomer] who accuses ye [lmp] one bit" ~Ang

This is the second time Anguirel mentiones Eomer with that kind of a tone. If Eomer is a wolf, he might have thought that Anguirel has dreamed of him.

#112, thinks Glirdan's vote for Garin is suspicious.

#115, defends Garin quite strongly.

Did the wolves think Anguirel had dreamed of Garin?

#118, votes for Glirdan


Quite a lot of this speaks against Glirdan. Is Glirdan a wolf who thinks Anguirel was a Seer who had dreamed of him? For now, I think Glirdan has been acting like he'd usually act, though.

Okay, there's a possibility that the wolves didn't think that Anguirel was a Seer, but killed him for some other reason instead. However, I'd assume that the wolves are trying to eliminate the Seers asap. and something that Anguirel said caught their attention.

[the guy who be short]

Number / Vote for / Vote by / Vote count

1. Lalaith - Cailin (Lalaith - 1)
2. TGWBS - TGWBS (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 1)
3. Garin - Garin (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 1, Garin - 1)
4. TGWBS - Lalaith (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 2, Garin - 1)
5. LMP - Eomer (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 2, Garin - 1, LMP - 1)
6. Eomer - Kath (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 2, Garin - 1, LMP - 1, Eomer - 1)
7. Farael - Tar-Ancalime (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 2, Garin - 1, LMP - 1, Eomer - 1, Farael - 1)
8. Garin - Eonwe (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 2, Garin - 2, LMP - 1, Eomer - 1, Farael - 1)
9. Garin - Celuien (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 2, Garin - 3, LMP - 1, Eomer - 1, Farael - 1)
10. Eomer - LMP (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 2, Garin - 3, LMP - 1, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1)
11. Garin - Glirdan (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 2, Garin - 4, LMP - 1, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1)
12. Anguirel - Farael (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 2, Garin - 4, LMP - 1, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1, Anguirel - 1)
13. TGWBS - Naria (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 3, Garin - 4, LMP - 1, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1, Anguirel - 1)
14. Anguiriel - Caranlondien (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 3, Garin - 4, LMP - 1, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1, Anguirel - 2)
15. Glirdan - Valier (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 3, Garin - 4, LMP - 1, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1, Anguirel - 2, Glirdan - 1)
16. Glirdan - Thinlomien (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 3, Garin - 4, LMP - 1, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1, Anguirel - 2, Glirdan - 2)
17. Glirdan - Anguirel (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 3, Garin - 4, LMP - 1, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1, Anguirel - 2, Glirdan - 3)
18. TGWBS - Formendacil (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 4, Garin - 4, LMP - 1, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1, Anguirel - 2, Glirdan - 3)
19. Lalaith - Lhunardawen (Lalaith - 2, TGWBS - 4, Garin - 4, LMP - 1, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1, Anguirel - 2, Glirdan - 3)
20. Garin - Samwise (Lalaith - 2, TGWBS - 4, Garin - 5, LMP - 1, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1, Anguirel - 2, Glirdan - 3)
21. LMP - Gurthang (Lalaith - 2, TGWBS - 4, Garin - 5, LMP - 2, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1, Anguirel - 2, Glirdan - 3)
22. Eonwe - spawn (Lalaith - 2, TGWBS - 4, Garin - 5, LMP - 2, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1, Anguirel - 2, Glirdan - 3, Eonwe - 1)

[the guy who be short]

I need to go, but I'll probably be back in an hour. I will then refer to these voting records, and urge others to consider them too. We focus too much on Anguirel. With 9 (not 10) votes, we probably got a wolf.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by SamwiseGamgee

Fair point, Lalaith. Now, onto darker matters: Lhuna.

Post #123: Lhuna votes for Lalaith. Now, at the time I thought this odd, as it left the tie which Form had created (in itself suspicious) standing. However, I let it pass until post #139, where Lhuna says: 'And the fact that a double-lynch was all too near is a bit disconserting.' But obviously not all that disconserting, as you let the tie stand. What say ye, Lhuna?

Seriously, Samwise...after suspecting those who voted for tgwbs, how could I bring myself to vote for him to save Garin? I still think he's innocent, just being Nilp to a T. Sure, Lalaith has a point that he could pull off a bluff like that, but right now I believe he's innocent.

I guess approaching a double lynch was inevitable yesterDay because we wanted to save Garin, but that doesn't make it any more comfortable.

[tar-ancalime]

Originally posted by the spawndress:

Actually, at the time when Anguirel mentioned Kath, she had already spoken.

I stand corrected. I did go back and look at her post, and I still think Anguirel's accusation of her was random. Thanks for pointing it out, though--it's always good to have the facts straight.

Now, Lhuna:

I guess approaching a double lynch was inevitable yesterDay because we wanted to save Garin, but that doesn't make it any more comfortable.

"We wanted to save Garin"?

At the time you voted, it was absolutely within your power to tip the scales. I know you also think tgwbs was innocent, but you're not going to gain any sympathy by playing both sides against the middle like that. You chose, actually, not to save either of them. The votes were tied at the time you voted for Lalaith--did you honestly think it through and decide that lynching two people whom you believed to be innocent was better than choosing between them? It's highly unlikely that the votes would have become tied again after your vote--such a dramatic gesture towards a double lynch would be suicide for any wolf or Lover.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

And remember, we don't have a Ranger so an outed Seer is a defenceless Seer.

Don't we? I was under the impression we have one.

EDIT: cross-posted with tar-ancalime, not that it matters but just for the record

[Lalaith]

#115, defends Garin quite strongly
Did the wolves think Anguirel had dreamed of Garin?

(spawn

Quite possibly. Or alternatively, perhaps they thought Ang's defence of Garin meant they were the two Seers. (A VERY reckless pair, if that had been so!)
In that case, back to the original theory that Ang - or even Garin - might have said something Seerish through chance.

Or maybe tgwbs is right and we are spending too much on this.

[Lalaith]

Nope, my dear mushroompicker. I refer you back to the Prophet's first utterance on this thread. Four wolves, two seers, two lovers. The rest of us are ords.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

We've lost Garin and Anguirel. This makes me sad as they clearly brought something to the village: the gifts of wit, charm and humour. Not only that, but they were guaranteed to post a lot and contribute. Not a good start.

Anyway, why do people keep picking up on this supposed 'master-plan' of mine? What are you talking about? I wanted to make it obvious that I was voting for LMP pretty much randomly. I wanted to see what kind of reaction it would get. I wanted to see if anyone would vote for me because of this random vote; and I wanted to see if anyone would bandwagon on LMP because of my random vote. Either way can look suspicious.

As it happened, Gurthang voted for LMP; but that seemed to be in reaction to LMP's return vote for me. He thought at least one of us is a wolf playing games. I'd let Gurthang off the hook for now. His was an open-minded vote and he spoke good sense to me. He comes across as bold and seems innocent enough.

LMP's vote for me was perhaps strange but I was really asking for it by voting him first. Also, LMP didn't have too much to go on.

Kath's vote for me was weird.

Also, was it Kath or LMP or both of them, who said that it's best to kill Eomer because, if we don't, we'll never be sure of his innocence anyway? This is totally unfair. We're hardly going to be sure of anyone's innocence unless they die or the Seer declares it so. To pick on me in this manner — stirring fears of my past wolvish exploits — is really unfair and uncalled for.

Scaremongering I call it, and it looks suspicious. I'll edit this post soon with the correct info on this matter...


EDIT: Both Kath and LMP, it appears.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by tar-ancalime, about Lhuna

At the time you voted, it was absolutely within your power to tip the scales. I know you also think tgwbs was innocent, but you're not going to gain any sympathy by playing both sides against the middle like that. You chose, actually, not to save either of them. The votes were tied at the time you voted for Lalaith--did you honestly think it through and decide that lynching two people whom you believed to be innocent was better than choosing between them?

Lhuna's reluctance to take sides has worried me too.
Scenario 1: Lhuna is a wolf/lover who wants as much innocents to die as possible.
Scenario 2: Lhuna is a wolf/lover and doesn't want to take sides because tgwbs is her lover/fellow wolf and she doesn't want to be connected to him in any possible way.
Scenario 3: Lhuna is an ordo who didn't ponder her vote so much. (According to my WW-experience, gifteds and wolves are the most careful players; they would maybe think again before getting into the suspicious situation Lhuna got herself into.)
Scenario 4: Something my limited mind can't think about just now.

Edit: xposting again; this time with Eomer and Lalaith