Question about Eowyn - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lily Bracegirdle · 02-19-2003, 06:45 PM

I tried a search on this and didn't come up with anything, so pardon me if it's been answered already.

In "The Passing of the Grey Company," Aragorn asks Eowyn "What do you fear, lady?" and she replies: "A cage. To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire."

My question is: what "them" is she referring to? The bars of a cage? Or is this an editing error? By "them" is Eowyn referring to other women who live in cages?

-Lily

[ February 21, 2003: Message edited by: Lily Bracegirdle ]

Kalimac · 02-19-2003, 06:54 PM

I always took it that she was referring to the bars - in fact, given her use of "them" and the fact that the only other object she's referred to (the cage) is singular, it looks like the bars are the only candidate. I don't think she's thinking at that moment about other women and their situations, only her own - which she thinks is to be stuck in a cage until she gets so old and worn out that she loses strength and inclination to escape.

Carrûn · 02-19-2003, 07:05 PM

I think the key phrase is "until use and old age accept them;" a fancy way of saying "until I am too old and tired to care anymore." It's actually one of my favorite Eowyn quotes, more so than say, when she's facing the Witch King.

Lily Bracegirdle · 02-19-2003, 07:18 PM

Thanks for the replies! I'm still a little confused. Why didn't she say "me"?

Eowyn has some great lines, doesn't she? One of her most biting:

Quote:

All your words are but to say: you are a woman and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more.

OUCH!

-Lily

Tar-Palantir · 02-19-2003, 08:38 PM

Quote:

All your words are but to say: you are a woman and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more.

Yes, a scornful person (see, I'm politically correct [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]) can say bold and daring things. We all know the words she is referring to were not meant in such a way.

Lily Bracegirdle · 02-20-2003, 06:10 PM

I'm sorry, Tar-Palantir, I don't understand what you mean. Could you explain?

So "until use and old age accept them" means "until use and old age (cause me to) accept them"?

-Lily

[ February 20, 2003: Message edited by: Lily Bracegirdle ]

[ February 20, 2003: Message edited by: Lily Bracegirdle ]

Cibbwin · 02-20-2003, 06:20 PM

I think she's talking about herself, and other women like her. I mean, I'm sure she wasn't the only woman who wanted to fight instead of hide in the caves.

**The Saucepan Man** · 02-20-2003, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the replies! I'm still a little confused. Why didn't she say "me"?

Isn't she talking about her fear of of being behind the bars, and being there for so long that habit and old age cause her to accept them? As in:

Quote:

To stay behind bars, until my use and old age cause me accept them

Tar-Palantir · 02-20-2003, 07:31 PM

Lily

Aragorn is trying to remind her that her charge is to govern her people. And then he tries to impart the importance of the task by telling her that one day maybe none will return from battle, and that "valour without renown" and the "last defence of your homes" are valiant deeds.

She got upset by this either because she was upset by not going or felt scorned by his rebuff. So she gave a hot-blooded response. Do you think Aragorn meant "..you are a woman, and your part is in the house."? I don't.

[ February 20, 2003: Message edited by: Tar-Palantir ]

Arvedui III · 02-20-2003, 08:01 PM

yeh, but that's what Eowyn thought. I mean that's what she had probibly been told all her life. Eowyn kicks butt!( sorry, I just had to say that) [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Lily Bracegirdle · 02-21-2003, 09:28 PM

Okay, I understand the line now. Thanks, everyone! It was bothering me a lot, especially after hearing it on the big screen and thinking: "Am I the only one who doesn't understand that sentence?"

Sorry, Tar-Palantir, I wasn't sure who you were referring to as the "scornful person". I see now that you were referring to Eowyn. I agree that she deliberately misunderstood Aragorn, but I chalked her words up to frustration more than scorn. I think Aragorn misunderstood Eowyn as well. He thought she wanted just to fight, when in actuality she wanted to win glory for herself by fighting in a big battle with the guys.

Eowyn: I want to win glory through battle!
Aragorn: You can't. You promised to stay here.
Eowyn: I don't want to! I want to go fight!
Aragorn: Well, if it's a fight you want, pretty soon you may be getting one here.
Eowyn: (Loses it) Ooooh! You! You're just like everyone else!

It would have been more rational if she had said: "You know what, if we go to Gondor, we're either going to win or die. If we win, everyone here will be saved, so I won't be needed, and if we don't, everyone here is doomed anyway. I'd rather make a name for myself there than wait here in obscurity." Of course, he *still* wouldn't have let her come, and she wouldn't be the glorious hot-head we love. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

Arvedui III, you're right. Eowyn does kick butt. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I think she's one of the main reasons female fans like the book: she's the female character we can identify with.

-Lily

Tar-Palantir · 02-21-2003, 10:11 PM

Lily here is a good thread on Eowyn, it is in the Movies forum for some reason. I would like to hear your input on it. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Eowyn, Arwen and Aragorn

Cibbwin · 02-22-2003, 02:14 AM

Hehe, don't forget us guys who like a strong, opinionated woman! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

02-19-2003, 06:45 PM	#1
Lily Bracegirdle Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bree Posts: 210	Question about Eowyn I tried a search on this and didn't come up with anything, so pardon me if it's been answered already. In "The Passing of the Grey Company," Aragorn asks Eowyn "What do you fear, lady?" and she replies: "A cage. To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire." My question is: what "them" is she referring to? The bars of a cage? Or is this an editing error? By "them" is Eowyn referring to other women who live in cages? -Lily [ February 21, 2003: Message edited by: Lily Bracegirdle ] __________________ "But nay: the praise of the praiseworthy is above all rewards." - Faramir

02-19-2003, 06:54 PM	#2
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	I always took it that she was referring to the bars - in fact, given her use of "them" and the fact that the only other object she's referred to (the cage) is singular, it looks like the bars are the only candidate. I don't think she's thinking at that moment about other women and their situations, only her own - which she thinks is to be stuck in a cage until she gets so old and worn out that she loses strength and inclination to escape. __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

02-19-2003, 07:05 PM	#3
Carrûn Wight Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Behind you, counting to 3 Posts: 234	I think the key phrase is "until use and old age accept them;" a fancy way of saying "until I am too old and tired to care anymore." It's actually one of my favorite Eowyn quotes, more so than say, when she's facing the Witch King. __________________ "Dic, hospes, Spartae, nos te hic vidisse iacentes dum sanctis patriae legibus obsequimur."

02-20-2003, 06:10 PM	#6
Lily Bracegirdle Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bree Posts: 210	I'm sorry, Tar-Palantir, I don't understand what you mean. Could you explain? So "until use and old age accept them" means "until use and old age (cause me to) accept them"? -Lily [ February 20, 2003: Message edited by: Lily Bracegirdle ] [ February 20, 2003: Message edited by: Lily Bracegirdle ] __________________ "But nay: the praise of the praiseworthy is above all rewards." - Faramir

02-20-2003, 06:20 PM	#7
Cibbwin Wight Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California Posts: 145	I think she's talking about herself, and other women like her. I mean, I'm sure she wasn't the only woman who wanted to fight instead of hide in the caves. __________________ The Warrior Hobbit Nîn o Chithaeglir, lasto beth daer; Rimmo nîn Bruinen, dan in Ulaer!

02-20-2003, 07:31 PM	#9
Tar-Palantir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: napa valley, ca Posts: 496	Lily Aragorn is trying to remind her that her charge is to govern her people. And then he tries to impart the importance of the task by telling her that one day maybe none will return from battle, and that "valour without renown" and the "last defence of your homes" are valiant deeds. She got upset by this either because she was upset by not going or felt scorned by his rebuff. So she gave a hot-blooded response. Do you think Aragorn meant "..you are a woman, and your part is in the house."? I don't. [ February 20, 2003: Message edited by: Tar-Palantir ] __________________ History shows again and again How nature points up the folly of men Go, go, Godzilla!

02-20-2003, 08:01 PM	#10
Arvedui III Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In Rohan, with Carolina on my mind Posts: 629	yeh, but that's what Eowyn thought. I mean that's what she had probibly been told all her life. Eowyn kicks butt!( sorry, I just had to say that) [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] __________________ I have no idea what you just said, but I'm inspired!

02-21-2003, 09:28 PM	#11
Lily Bracegirdle Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bree Posts: 210	Okay, I understand the line now. Thanks, everyone! It was bothering me a lot, especially after hearing it on the big screen and thinking: "Am I the only one who doesn't understand that sentence?" Sorry, Tar-Palantir, I wasn't sure who you were referring to as the "scornful person". I see now that you were referring to Eowyn. I agree that she deliberately misunderstood Aragorn, but I chalked her words up to frustration more than scorn. I think Aragorn misunderstood Eowyn as well. He thought she wanted just to fight, when in actuality she wanted to win glory for herself by fighting in a big battle with the guys. Eowyn: I want to win glory through battle! Aragorn: You can't. You promised to stay here. Eowyn: I don't want to! I want to go fight! Aragorn: Well, if it's a fight you want, pretty soon you may be getting one here. Eowyn: (Loses it) Ooooh! You! You're just like everyone else! It would have been more rational if she had said: "You know what, if we go to Gondor, we're either going to win or die. If we win, everyone here will be saved, so I won't be needed, and if we don't, everyone here is doomed anyway. I'd rather make a name for myself there than wait here in obscurity." Of course, he still wouldn't have let her come, and she wouldn't be the glorious hot-head we love. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] Arvedui III, you're right. Eowyn does kick butt. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I think she's one of the main reasons female fans like the book: she's the female character we can identify with. -Lily __________________ "But nay: the praise of the praiseworthy is above all rewards." - Faramir

02-21-2003, 10:11 PM	#12
Tar-Palantir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: napa valley, ca Posts: 496	Lily here is a good thread on Eowyn, it is in the Movies forum for some reason. I would like to hear your input on it. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Eowyn, Arwen and Aragorn __________________ History shows again and again How nature points up the folly of men Go, go, Godzilla!

02-22-2003, 02:14 AM	#13
Cibbwin Wight Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California Posts: 145	Hehe, don't forget us guys who like a strong, opinionated woman! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ The Warrior Hobbit Nîn o Chithaeglir, lasto beth daer; Rimmo nîn Bruinen, dan in Ulaer!