The Silmarillion Survivor

[the phantom]

Yes, Gothmog, it is tempting to vote Morgoth out, but he is undoubtedly a mover and a shaker. We need those sorts of people.

As far as giving him the boot to save Feanor and the Noldor from his influence, his damage has already been done. He has already sown his seeds of deception. It's too late for that.

What we need to do now is keep the Teleri from resisting the Noldor, since quite obviously the Noldor need to get to Middle Earth to contest the power of Morgoth. Remember, Morgoth is arriving back at his home in Utumno right about now, and he is letting his orcs loose on the Sindarin elves dwelling in Beleriand.

The Noldor are needed there desperately, not only to stop Morgoth, but to help the race of Man rise to its peak.

Voting off Morgoth would not only make for a dull game, but it would also not solve the immediate problem of keeping the elves from killing one another. Either vote out Manwe to keep him from ordering Olwe to withhold his help from Feanor, or vote out Olwe so the Teleri can elect a wiser leader- one who knows it is best to help the friends of the Teleri, and knows to ignore the wishes of Manwe, which inevitably lead to disaster.

[Boromir88]

Voting off Morgoth would not only make for a dull game, but it would also not solve the immediate problem of keeping the elves from killing one another.~the phantom

Yeah, I just want to see Ungoliant and Morgoth go at eachother. That's really the only good reason for keeping them around. And all the drama they cause as the "bad guys." Everyone wrenches over having them stay on, but you know they will stay around.

[the phantom]

The current count, if I'm not mistaken-

Manwe- 6
Eonwe- 2
Feanor- 2
Olwe- 1
Osse- 1
Morgoth- 1

[Anguirel]

Thanks a lot phantom.

For his overbearing attitude to the Noldor and the Teleri and his ineffectiveness as King of Arda, Manwe Sulimo is thrust into the Void! Morgoth is most amused.

Voting closed. Results coming soon.

[Anguirel]

RESULTS OF DAY TWO

With the King of Arda deposed, the Valar settled down in the Ring of Doom to discuss the succession.

"According to the law," Mandos pointed out, "Manwe's closest male relative should ascend the throne."

"But that is Melkor-Morgoth," Varda pointed out. "Surely it would be wiser to allow his Queen to take power?"

"Men will do that in Numenor eventually, and it won't work out too well." Tulkas rolled his eyes. Really, half the time none of them had a clue what Mandos was talking about.

"What about me?" piped up Eonwe.

"What about you? And you're not supposed to be here," Tulkas growled.

"But I'm Manwe's son by Varda."

"Not according to Canon you aren't..." corrected Mandos.

And so the debate raged. As the Valar argued, some, free thinkers like Ulmo and Aule, left in disgust; the others strove on, and dreams struggled with stars, plants with dances. Meanwhile, unnoticed by the squabblers, Ungoliant peaceably ate the Trees, as a cow chews on cud.

~~~

RESULTS OF THE CHALLENGE

In the midst of all this madness, Feanor's fiery speeches won over all the Noldor. He and his sons swore thew famous Oath to reclaim the Silmarilli, and named Ingwe and Manwe in witness as a twisted joke. As a body, the Noldor prepared to leave Tirion for better lives across the Sea; their heaven was becoming a hell. There was only one method of crossing the ocean; the Teleri. Many had the demise of the Vanyar fresh in their minds, but Feanor was confident Olwe would agree to his proposal.

"Lo!" he cried to the Sea-King. "We are to leave this land of squabbling! Come with us you may! The perils of Morgoth are as nothing to the freedom that lies ahead..."

"Wait. We come with you? You don't just what to kill us and nick our ships?"

"Why would you think that? We Elves must stick together."

"That lying Mandos...yeah, we'll come, it's not as if anyone's told us not to."

As the fleet departed, Mandos cursed it just for fun.

Given an excellent wind by Uinen and Osse (who had backed Eonwe's rejected claim for Kingship of Arda) the united Noldor-Teler army soon arrived close to the shore. A few ships perished in a bit of random pent-up frustration from Osse, but no one with a name sank. And so it was that the host of the Elves with Tree-light in their eyes arrived in Middle-earth.

The battle with Morgoth's army that followed was named the Dagor-Nan-Pushover, and Morgoth's army was exterminated, though Feanor still managed to get himself burnt to a crisp by Gothmog.

It's Day One in Middle-Earth.

The contestants:

Tribes

VALAR

Elbereth
Ulmo
Mandos, Doom of

NOLDOR

Fingolfin
Finarfin
Maedhros
Maglor
Celegorm
Caranthir
Curufin
Amras
Fingon
Turgon
Aredhel
Finrod
Artanis aka Galadriel
Orodreth
Aegnor

TELERI/SINDAR

Olwe
Thingol
Celeborn
Mablung
Beleg
Daeron
Saeros
Eol

MAIA/ELF

Luthien

MAIA

Melian
Osse
Uinen
Huan
Tilion
Arien

FORCES OF EVIL

Morgoth
Ungoliant
Sauron
Gothmog

The third task: INHERITANCE LAW. Learn from the Valar's mistakes and ensure the High Kingship of the Noldor is passed on smoothly.

[Gothmog]

I would never dream of criticizing you Anguirel, but I sense a tiny bit of biased writing

Anyway: we managed to stop the slaying. That's very good, even if we payed a high prize if you listen to me. We've lost a strong character, the only one who could challenge Morgoth in powers. Well, so be it...

Next task: Inheritance. There's a lot of elves who might think themselves worthy of the title High King of Noldor. There'll be a discussion about who's the most noble to go first and then there'll be the question of wether or not the title should be inherited at all, and if so only father-son or also father-daugther.

I'd say among all elves in ME, Olwe would be the highest. But this title concerns the Noldor alone. So: Finwe was King of all Noldor in the west and Feanor is his eldest son. Feanor could be a strong ruler, but what worries me is some of his sons. But Maedhros is the oldest and he might turn out real fine.

But that oath of Feanor... If he got the power, I fear he would do anything to get his beloved jewels back and that might cause unnecessary suffering.

Fingolfin is a strong and and valiant and Finarfin the wisest. A combination of the three would be the optimum.

I haven't decide who to vote for yet but (and this is hard for me to admit) right now, Feanor is the rightful King.

[Anguirel]

Gothmog, a cause for celebration for you...you've killed Feanor already! It's towards the end of the challenge results.

I hope it isn't too biased. I honestly thought the Elves would band together in the madness. And Manwe's removal will mean more longterm havoc, I assure you...

As will the late devouring of the Trees, actually...though the Sun and Moon will be up soon.

[Gothmog]

I'm SO sorry...*very embarrassed look*

I'll just keep my mouth shut a year or two

[Anguirel]

No, please don't! You're a loyal viewer. Also, you've given me an idea.

To make votes more accurately reflect the challenge, would respondents please submit TWO votes-one for an eviction candidate, and the other for their preferred High King of the Noldor.

e.g. (just an example, not real votes)

++TILION, ++AEGNOR

[Gothmog]

Flattery won't get you anywhere Anguirel... What am I saying?? Of course it does!

To redeem myself I'll going to put the first votes. For the title I'll vote

++Fingolfin

Not the most imaginative choice but still... A strong leader with great potential and the capability to lead his people vs Morgoth. Also, he has sons who's worthy the title after him.

And to continue with what I already started, my vote for the one to go:

++Curufin

Of reasons I've made clear earlier...

Anguirel:

though Feanor still managed to get himself burnt to a crisp by Gothmog.

*evil laugh* don't mess with villainous Balrogs!

[Lord Melkor]

Hmmm, Finarfin or Fingolfin? Though Finarfin is the wisest and would make a fine king in peacetime the Noldor aren't living in Lala-Happyland anymore. They've come to Middle-Earth and there is war to be waged!
Well, it's quite obvious that Fingolfin is the most capable elf to become High King of the Noldor in times of war, no question about it, so....

++ Fingolfin

However, it is clear that the sons of Feanor, violent delinquents as they are, will continue to be a perennial thorn in Fingolfin's side, and none more so than Curufin, who is violent, manipulative, powerhungry and quite possibly insane. He needs to go. Perhaps a freak hunting accident? You know, with Middle-Earth covered in darkness all kinds of accidents can happen. Maybe someone will mistake him for a boar?

++ Curufin

[Anguirel]

Fingolfin shows his true colours with this outrageous assault on the crown that cannot be rightfully his! Let's have a closer look at this "paragon of chivalry", Crookback Fin, attempting to usurp his six innocent nephews...

FINGOLFIN OF GLOUCESTER: Now is the winter of our discontent
Made glorious summer by my brother's death,
And all the clouds that lay upon this house
In the red ire of a Balrog burnt.

The dastardly villain! If we follow the historical precedent, it's clear what he'll do.

1. Detract attention from his own villainy by framing his mediocre younger bother Clarenc...er, I mean, Finarfin...for treason. He will then drown him in Dorwinion wine. No one will care because Finarfin is a bit of a wimp, but Rich...I mean Fingolfin...will be closer to the crown. Obviously we need to thwart this plan by voting off Finarfin. Then we'll keep Fingolfin's military skill yet check his scheming. And no one will miss the old pacifist...

++FINARFIN

2. He will murder several of his nephews and rule until stopped by an even more cunning and relentless claimant. A Henry Tudor character. Now if we can get the Henry Tudor character crowned High King first, all the trouble will be averted.

Clearly, we must elect a lawful heir, or make hypocrites of ourselves. So we need a scion of the senior branch of the House of Finwe. IE, a Son of Feanor. I will inspect each in turn.

Maedhros-a great warrior and a noble and chivalrous elf. Sadly, too noble; he'll be oblivious to Finarfin's evil plotting, and he may not be resourceful enough to deal successfully with emissaries of Morgoth like Sauron.

Maglor-No. Out of the question; too nice and artistic to be spoilt by murderous politics, despite keen intelligence. We should keep him as the splendid prince he is.

Celegorm-Possible. A fine warrior, a great orator, and a handsome figure of a King. But perhaps a little too preoccupied by the pleasures of the chase. It would be like making Orome King of Arda. Too distractible.

Caranthir-good in dealings with other races. A fair and just, if harsh, ruler. Quick to anger, though, and manipulatible on this account.

Curufin-the perfect Henry Tudor model. An excellent plotter, lies so well he can leave Sauron baffled, no mercy on his enemies. Marked out by his great father's especial favour. Would immediately detect any false step by Fingolfin. Good relations with Nogrod (Dwarves are as yet a distant rumour, but will be important later). An opportunistic diplomat. Good taste; no patience with irritating Mary-Sues. A solid line of succession-a baby son has just been born...

Amras-bit of a dark horse, really. Quite a risk. Probably too mucked up by brother's death.

The conclusion-I elect

++CURUFIN

as High King of the Noldor.

[arcticstorm]

I agree with Gothmog's original post, so if Anguiril allows this I would like to propose an Elvish Triumvarate. As is said earlier, the elves need to stick together. Now that Elwe has been found Olwe and the other teleri will gladly follow their brother. I believe that a triumvarate will work in this case, each taking charge of 1/3 of the land and using the palantiri of faenor to communicate with one another.

for leadership: ++Fingolfin, Maedhros, and Thingol

Now for the eviction. I believe that the only thing that is holding the elves back right now ina smooth transition is not a person, no, it is
++Mandos, Doom of
THink about it, once the curse is lifted, the elves of Middle Earth will be able to follow thorugh with their plans and remain united.

[Anguirel]

arctic, your suggestion is sensible but I am not asking you to vote for the rulers of elvendom. The task is simply to elect a High King of the Noldor. There can only be one, though some candidates may listen to the advice of their friends and relatives more than others...

As for your eviction-a good choice, but not one I shall support. I think the Doom spices things up!

[arcticstorm]

ok with that, I sh;ll decide on one high king, and I believe that ++Maedhros deserves a shot at it. He is the oldest son of the last high king, thereby following normal rules of succession. He is also the most noble of feanor's sons. While Fingolfin may have more courage and he may make a good king, I think Maedhros should get the first shot at the throne.

[Anguirel]

VOTES

KINGSHIP

Fingolfin-2
Curufin-1
Maedhros-1

EVICTION

Curufin-2
Finarfin-1
Mandos, Doom of-1

Incidentally-look at the names of those who support Fingolfin and condemn Curufin! Gothmog and Melkor! Clear evidence of Fingolfin's evil true nature...

[Gothmog]

Incidentally-look at the names of those who support Fingolfin and condemn Curufin! Gothmog and Melkor! Clear evidence of Fingolfin's evil true nature...

I've always tried to explain that we Balrogs are totally misunderstood. We're really lovely creatures...

A little comment to the voting... I won't budge when it comes to Curufin, unless it proves an impossible task this turn. Which it won't! Lets get rid of him!

About the king: Fingolfin is the natural leader, but if it comes to choose between a son of Feanor, Maedhros is definitely the right choice. Curufin? Bah, you can't be serious? Let the eldest take care of it as it's supposed to be... But Maedhros is the reserv alternative, Fingolfin is the right choice. But if needed to stop Curufin from taking power, I'm prepared to do anything.

[Glirdan]

Turgon. The one who's realm will last the longest. He deserves to be High King of the Noldor early. I mean he's going to be anyway later on, so why not give it to him early? That way he has a longer time to be High King of Noldor and make some serious decisions and stuff.

My election vote

++Turgon

And I'm going to be different on my vote for eviction. I say we get rid of Osse now. If it weren't for his wrath, those boats that sunk with elves names who aren't important never would have happened.

++Osse

[Anguirel]

I'm changing my eviction vote to support Glirdan:

--FINARFIN, ++OSSE

What I didn't mention is that Elenwe was among the drowned Noldor and Teleri. I'd forgotten to put her in at the beginning and I needed a way to subtly deprive Turgon of a wife. So Elenwe's blood is on Osse's hands!

Finarfin can stay for now. If Curufin becomes High King, he'll easily foil Fingolfin's plotting with his craven brother anyway...

VOTES

KINGSHIP

Fingolfin-2
Curufin-1
Maedhros-1
Turgon-1

EVICTION

Curufin-2
Mandos, Doom of-1
Osse-2

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Today I will only be voting, since my arguments are inferior to those allready postet.

++Fingolfin for king ! (Nobody beats Fingolfin)

Well Anguirel I think you made more sence in youre earlyer post, so I will vote:

++Finarfin

[Anguirel]

Mmm. I'll just about accept those votes as reasoned...

VOTES

KINGSHIP

Fingolfin-3
Curufin-1
Maedhros-1
Turgon-1

EVICTION

Curufin-2
Mandos, Doom of-1
Osse-2
Finarfin-1

I'm surprised Maedhros isn't garnering more votes for the Kingship. So much more interesting that one dimensional goody-goody Fingolfin. Like comparing Achilles and Aeneas. (Curufin is Odysseus...)

[Tuor in Gondolin]

If I may join in, I can't believe that one of the Bad Boys (Curufin)
wasn't ejected earlier. He and his bud are nothing but trouble (and
unprincipled in their actions). They are the antithesis of cooperative
action with others to survive. I say "hasta la vista, baby" to Curufin.

As for High King, I'd like to opt for Maedros, but he's too literal and
stubborn in his views, a High King has to be more adaptable. So:
Fingolfin.

[Anguirel]

Tuor, vote like this in future, please:

++FINGOLFIN

++CURUFIN

Makes it a bit easier to see...

Well, the dull as dust Fingolfin is tearing to the top as High King so far...the only question seems to be, can the fascinating, cunning and charismatic Curufin survive? All those of you who defended Feanor should come out in support of his favourite son...

[Alcarillo]

The Noldor need a clever and tough king in this new dangerous land across the sea.

++Curufin

And I'll vote for who gets evicted later.

Edit: 500th post!

[Anguirel]

Alcarillo, you are officially my blood-brother.

Incidentally, in the unlikely event that the chosen High King of the Noldor is also evicted, the High Kingship will be abolished...

VOTES

KINGSHIP

Fingolfin-4
Curufin-2
Maedhros-1
Turgon-1

EVICTION:

Curufin-3
Mandos, Doom of-1
Osse-2
Finarfin-1

All supportors of the House of Feanor, I would advise that you support Curufin's bid for the crown-Maedhros will only give it away-and vote to banish the irritating, arrogant sea-Maia Osse, murderer of Elenwe...

Also, I must once more emphasise the utter illegality of Fingolfin's claim. If you accept him as King, you insult the memory of Miriel by declaring her child's children unfit for rule...Fingolfin is a hunchbacked, murderous, usurping uncle. So there!

[Glirdan]

While I agree with getting rid of Osse (I am after all the one who started it!! ), I don't agree that Curufin should be High King. Give it to Turgon. He's going to be the last High King of the Noldor anyway. Might as well give it to him early so he can exercise his powers earlier. Maybe in this way, they'd be able to defeat Morgoth eariler. Vote Turgon for High King!!!

[Formendacil]

By the laws of inheritance, the eldest son/child (in this case the same thing) of the previous High King inherits. With Finwe dead, it goes to Feanor. With Feanor dead, it goes to Maedhros, so:

++Maedhros, High King of the Noldor

and, since inheritance is the issue of the day, I say we remove old Nolofinwe. He's well-known to have pretensions towards his nephew's throne, and chafes under the rule of someone younger.

++Finwe-Nolofinwe Finwion, for removal from the island.

Terribly sorry, Anguirel et al, if my voting seems more stale this time around, but the new nature of these challenges and such makes things quite a bit less random than before...

[Anguirel]

Hmmm. The Maedhros campaign gets started at last.

Formendacil...I love your mastery of surnames. Completely beyond me!

KINGSHIP

Fingolfin-4
Curufin-2
Maedhros-2
Turgon-1

EVICTION

Curufin-3
Osse-2
Mandos, Doom of-1
Finarfin-1
Fingolfin-1

The voting really says it all. We Feanor-adherents are divided; the Fingolfin-supporting rebels stand together on both issues. We need to establish a definite candidate and target.

Saving Curufin must be a priority. If the Osse campaign does not gather speed, I will endeavour to aid the Finarfin eviction drive; but I would still recommend Osse as the safer option...

The Kingship is also a vital issue. Think what the scheming uncle may do to his nephews once the throne is his! I implore Feanorians back the guile, craft and staying power of Curufin. Remember, he has an heir; Maedhros doesn't...

[Lalaith]

Well I voted for Osse for eviction yesterday and I'll do it again today, anyone who wants my reasons just needs to scroll back.
++OSSE

As for high king...I don't know. Fingolfin challenging Morgoth to single combat was pretty cool you know... that's what I call leading from the front. But I don't want to cross swords with AngMod so early in the game....
Turgon however is horrible. I've always loathed him for what he did to Hurin (ok, will in the future do to Hurin.) Maedros is someone I have a soft spot for, but he has too many issues. The rest of the brothers, while undoubtedly fascinating, would lose their all anti-hero appeal once they became part of the ruling establishment, so I would argue strongly for them to remain glamorously dispossessed.
But what of Fingolfin's son Fingon. What a friend that elf was. And a rift-healer.
So I say skip a generation and go for
++FINGON for king.

[Anguirel]

Lalaith, perceptive as ever, on the anti-hero front...I wonder if you're right...but the only way we'll see is if Curufin ascends to the kingship!

KINGSHIP

Fingolfin-4
Curufin-2
Maedhros-2
Turgon-1
Fingon-1

EVICTION

Curufin-3
Mandos, Doom of-1
Osse-3
Finarfin-1
Fingolfin-1

Osse is now the save-Curufin eviction candidate. Of the two Feanorian brothers, I still exhort you to back Curufin, only founder of House Feanor's third generation...

[arcticstorm]

I am calling for those of us in the Feanor camp who voted for the kingship of Curufin, to rethink their strategy and rally behind the older brother Maedhros, so that the kingship does not depart from the house of Feanor.

Later tonight I may change my vote from the doom of Mandos just so that I can save Curufin

[Anguirel]

But if Maedhros is High King, it will depart from the house of Feanor, because he's so noble he'll give up the crown to his uncle soon...I say Curufin is the Feanorian continuity candidate!

Interesting that Fingolfin's sons are both candidates. Deployed by the machiavel Fingolfin to split his opponents' vote...

I'm off for tonight. Voting will close tomorrow, 7:30 AM GMT, as it did yesterday...

[Boromir88]

I agree with Anguirel here...

For king- ++Curufin

Kick out...

++Osse, he's just an Ulmo wannabe.

[the phantom]

EVERYONE READ THIS POST, IT MIGHT MAKE YOU RECONSIDER YOUR CHOICES

But if Maedhros is High King, it will depart from the house of Feanor, because he's so noble he'll give up the crown to his uncle soon...

I don't think that is true.

Because we managed to avoid the kinslaying and all that, Feanor and his sons never ditched Fingolfin's host and left them in Valinor. Because of that, Maedhros has none of the guilt that he had in the book, and the people of Fingolfin have none of the emnity they had towards Feanor's house in the book. Those two things are what made Maedhros think it wise to hand over the crown in the book- but we avoided those two things, didn't we?

If we elect Maedhros now, he will not hand over the crown. He's the rightful king, and he won't feel bad about taking the crown.

He should definitely be picked before Fingolfin, because Fingolfin is probably going to be dying soon. For the sake of stability, we need a longer lived king.

And honestly, how can you pick Fingon or Turgon before Maedhros? Though after Fingolfin's death Fingon was considered the "high king", it is quite obvious in the book that Maedhros was the leader of the forces of good. Remember, there was an alliance of men, elves, and dwarves that nearly defeated Morgoth in the Fifth Battle of Beleriand, Nirnaeth Arnoediad.

Do you remember what that alliance was called? Was it called Friends of Fingon? No. Was it called Turgon's Triumvirate? No.

It was called the UNION OF MAEDHROS!

Maedhros was Morgoth's primary opponent, even while Fingolfin was alive. From the Silmarillion-

When nearly one hundred years had run since the Dagor Aglareb, Morgoth endeavoured to take Fingolfin at unawares (for he knew of the vigilance of Maedhros); and he sent forth an army....

As you can see, Maedhros appears to be more on the ball than even Fingolfin.

Maedhros is, without a doubt, the logical choice for king.

And another thing- don't worry about the relationships between the House of Feanor and Thingol, because the griefs that were between them in the books did not happen here. We prevented the kinslaying!

And so, for king...

+ + Maedhros

Our task is appointing a king, and simply electing Maedhros will solve that. The ONLY WAY we'll have TROUBLE with the task of appointing a KING is if we PASS OVER Feanor's house, thus causing a DISPUTE in the claim.

LISTEN to me, everyone. There is not a good reason to pass over Maedhros, and so if we unwisely do so PROBLEMS will come of it.

You NEED to vote for MAEDHROS for KING.

[Boromir88]

phantom makes sense...plus I like bandwagoning and being so indecisive...

--Curufin
++Maedhros

Though I still say kick out Osse. All the Maiar and Valar try to control everyone, who do they think they are?

[Glirdan]

I just reconsidered my vote for High King of the Noldor.

--Turgon ++Maedhros

Yes phantom, you brought me into the light. Now everyone bandwagon to me and vote off Osse!!

[the phantom]

As far as who to evict, yes, Osse is probably a good choice. He's always been a problem.

But let's think carefully. This is the first time where we've been able to evict whoever we want without having to consider the task of the day. Electing Maedhros will solve the kingship task, and so we are free to evict absolutely anyone.

I would certainly vote for Osse before Curufin- the other candidate who has been getting several votes.

In the book there was a lot of hostility towards the sons of Feanor from pretty much everyone. Wouldn't you like to give the sons a chance to live a normal life? We avoided the kinslaying, and so avoided all of the hostile feelings that existed in Beleriand. I say we give the sons of Feanor a chance- the chance that the Doom of Mandos never gave them.

This is part of the Doom of Mandos-

On the House of Feanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from the West unto the uttermost East, and upon all that will follow them it shall be laid also. Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue. To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well...

We NEED to VOTE OFF THE DOOM OF MANDOS.

It is extremely unfair.

The Valar let Melkor loose amongst the elves, and when he influences them for the worse, they let him escape and punish the elves instead of heal them, which of course makes things worse.

And then when the elves understandably go to leave Valinor, Mandos curses them!

The elves don't do what he wants because of the stupid actions of his own kind (the Valar), and so he curses the elves for it! What an unfair, arrogant jerk!

I personally think that the Doom of Mandos needs to go.

It is not right, and it will continually cause problem after problem.

But unless everyone agrees to vote for it, I will probably have to vote for Osse to save Curufin.

Also, Aredhel might be a good choice to vote off.

If we get rid of her then there will be no Maeglin, and so he will not be captured by Morgoth and forced to reveal the location of Gondolin.

TO ALL OF YOU WHO VOTED TO EVICT CURUFIN- would you consider Aredhel as a compromise target? I'm sure you care deeply about the city of Gondolin. If we get rid of Aredhel, we could save the city.

This could be our only chance. We don't know what challenges and circumstances we will face the rest of the game. We might not get an opportunity to get rid of Maeglin or Eol before Gondolin falls.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

In the midst of all this madness, Feanor's fiery speeches won over all the Noldor. He and his sons swore thew famous Oath to reclaim the Silmarilli, and named Ingwe and Manwe in witness as a twisted joke.

Maedhros swore the oath! Then It will create problems with him as king!

What will Maedhros do when one of the Silmarill's is taken from Morgroth's crown ?

Do not vote Maedhros !

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

"Wait. We come with you? You don't just what to kill us and nick our ships?"

"Why would you think that? We Elves must stick together."

"That lying Mandos...yeah, we'll come, it's not as if anyone's told us not to."

As the fleet departed, Mandos cursed it just for fun.

This clearly shows that Mandos is nothing but trouble. He capriciously cursed the fleet with absolutely no reason behind it. Furthermore, he lied to the Teleri in an effort to cause conflict with the Noldor. He has to go.

For eviction:
++MANDOS, DOOM OF

And the best way to avoid a challenge to the kingship is probably to follow the generally recognized line of inheritance, so

For High King:
++MAEDHROS

[the phantom]

Maedhros swore the oath! Then It will create problems with him as king!

I don't think it will.

As long as Melkor's got the jewels, the oath is great because it will ensure that the Sons of Feanor will oppose Melkor to the death, and if the eldest of the sons is king then everyone will follow in unity.

The oath doesn't really cause trouble until one of the Silmarils is taken by Thingol, who refuses to take his wife's advice and give it back.

But we can take care of him later.

I would encourage everyone to avoid controversy and strife and vote Maedhros in as king.

I would also encourage everyone to get rid of the-

+ + Doom of Mandos

It obviously causes more trouble than Curufin could ever cause. Don't vote for Curufin, vote to give the Doom of Mandos the boot.