Compliment... or not? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Gurthang · 09-15-2005, 06:47 PM

At Bilbo's party, he says:

Quote:

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
~ FotR: Chapter 1

Now, at first glance, you don't really know what to get from this line. It's just plain fun to read or say out loud, and can be left at that if you like. But if you try to look closer, to see what it means, it seems to be a compliment; at least the first half is. But by looking even closer, it almost seems like it isn't a compliment.

The second breath of the sentence can be taken in two ways. Bilbo could be saying that most of the Hobbits he knows, he likes the correct amount or is being generous in how much the likes them. Or he is saying that there are some that he doesn't like as much as he should.

So, to put it graphically: M = majority, m = minority

Bilbo likes M >= what's fair
OR
Bilbo likes m < what's fair

OR (if you want to stretch your brain.)
Bilbo likes M >= what's fair > Bilbo likes m

So, what do you think it is: Compliment, not a compliment, or both at the same time?

Ainaserkewen · 09-15-2005, 06:55 PM

Because I saw the movie first and Ian Holm says it a certain way I've always assumed it was a clever put down. But now that I examine it, the phrase could very well be a nice compliment!

Another thing no one will ever know.

Márcolië Lamen · 09-15-2005, 07:34 PM

When I was reading that I always read it as a compliment, though I see how it could be read otherwise. I read it as they disearved more than he could give them, and while he couldn't know them well enough to like them enough, he realized they disearved more.

Glirdan · 09-15-2005, 08:32 PM

I think it's probably meant to be taken both ways. The first part being a compliment, the secon, not to be. But, as Aina said:

Quote:

Another thing no one will ever know.

Encaitare · 09-15-2005, 09:33 PM

I think it's a compliment cleverly disguised as an insult. Maybe Bilbo was hoping that only the cleverest ones (the ones most worthy of his compliments) would understand that.

Ainaserkewen · 09-15-2005, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Encaitare

I think it's a compliment cleverly disguised as an insult. Maybe Bilbo was hoping that only the cleverest ones (the ones most worthy of his compliments) would understand that.

That makes more sense than it should.

Márcolië Lamen · 09-15-2005, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Encaitare

I think it's a compliment cleverly disguised as an insult. Maybe Bilbo was hoping that only the cleverest ones (the ones most worthy of his compliments) would understand that.

That makes an extreme amount of sense. Almost more than it should.

Lalwendë · 09-16-2005, 02:51 AM

To me, in the first half of the statement he is expressing regret that he hasn't got to know some people as much as he would have liked. In the second half, he is saying how there are some in the crowd, but by no means all, who he thinks might have deserved to be more highly esteemed by him.

It's a compliment all round. A very English and veiled one at that.

It's also one of my favourite sayings and I have long been waiting for a chance to use it, though I think it's possibly too well-known to use it in my work; maybe if I had won the lottery and was not afraid of getting the sack...

Kuruharan · 09-16-2005, 08:17 AM

I think it was both at once.

Sort of "If the shoe fits" principle.

drigel · 09-16-2005, 09:36 AM

I love that line! But I think it was a compliment that was ill-executed..
Dont think otherwise if you havent partaken any of the beer from the Golden Perch!

Gurthang · 09-16-2005, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

I think it was both at once.

Sort of "If the shoe fits" principle.

That's about the same as what I was thinking. Although it is a compliment to the 'less than half' that Bilbo feels he should like better, it seems to be somewhat of a slam to the non-'less than half' hobbits. Those hobbits are ones that Bilbo feels he shouldn't have to like more or who he likes more than what they deserve. So it is certainly not a compliment to them.

And seeing how the anti-compliment is directed towards more hobbits(more than half, at least), I'd say that it was almost meant to be more of a demeanor than compliment.

Folwren · 09-16-2005, 11:46 AM

As Kuruharan said, I think. It could be taken as either a compliment or an insult, depending on who you were. I think Sackville-Baggins's should have taken it as an insult, whereas, say, the Bolgers might have taken it as a compliment, although I've now idea what sort of terms Bilbo was with the Bolgers.

But, as several others have said already, compliment or no, I like that line a lot. Though, yes, it is far too overused and well known to use in real life.

-- Folwren

Elladan and Elrohir · 09-18-2005, 01:15 PM

I think it's a compliment, if a rather convoluted one. I was so happy to see this line in the movie; Ian Holm gives it perfectly, and the looks on the faces of the hobbits!

Formendacil · 09-18-2005, 06:02 PM

I've always thought of it as a compliment- and an apology. Bilbo is admitting that he hasn't made the effort to know them as well as he should, and he admits that they would have been worth knowing.

And being Bilbo, he does it in such a way as to completely befuddle them, as I'm sure he intended.

09-15-2005, 06:55 PM	#2
Ainaserkewen Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A cosmic waiting room Posts: 651	Because I saw the movie first and Ian Holm says it a certain way I've always assumed it was a clever put down. But now that I examine it, the phrase could very well be a nice compliment! Another thing no one will ever know. __________________ Solus... I'm eating chicken again. I ate chicken yesterday and the day before... will I be eating chicken again tomorrow? Why am I always eating chicken?

09-15-2005, 07:34 PM	#3
Márcolië Lamen Wight Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Nwy, land of the llamas Posts: 109	When I was reading that I always read it as a compliment, though I see how it could be read otherwise. I read it as they disearved more than he could give them, and while he couldn't know them well enough to like them enough, he realized they disearved more. __________________ Here there be turtle-dragons

09-16-2005, 02:51 AM	#8
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	To me, in the first half of the statement he is expressing regret that he hasn't got to know some people as much as he would have liked. In the second half, he is saying how there are some in the crowd, but by no means all, who he thinks might have deserved to be more highly esteemed by him. It's a compliment all round. A very English and veiled one at that. It's also one of my favourite sayings and I have long been waiting for a chance to use it, though I think it's possibly too well-known to use it in my work; maybe if I had won the lottery and was not afraid of getting the sack... __________________ Gordon's alive!

09-16-2005, 08:17 AM	#9
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,592	I think it was both at once. Sort of "If the shoe fits" principle. __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

09-16-2005, 09:36 AM	#10
drigel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: commonplace city Posts: 518	I love that line! But I think it was a compliment that was ill-executed.. Dont think otherwise if you havent partaken any of the beer from the Golden Perch! Last edited by drigel; 09-16-2005 at 09:45 AM.

09-15-2005, 09:33 PM	#5
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	I think it's a compliment cleverly disguised as an insult. Maybe Bilbo was hoping that only the cleverest ones (the ones most worthy of his compliments) would understand that.

09-16-2005, 11:46 AM	#12
Folwren Messenger of Hope Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a tiny, insignificant little town in one of the many States. Posts: 5,076	As Kuruharan said, I think. It could be taken as either a compliment or an insult, depending on who you were. I think Sackville-Baggins's should have taken it as an insult, whereas, say, the Bolgers might have taken it as a compliment, although I've now idea what sort of terms Bilbo was with the Bolgers. But, as several others have said already, compliment or no, I like that line a lot. Though, yes, it is far too overused and well known to use in real life. -- Folwren __________________ A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. - C.S. Lewis

09-18-2005, 01:15 PM	#13
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	I think it's a compliment, if a rather convoluted one. I was so happy to see this line in the movie; Ian Holm gives it perfectly, and the looks on the faces of the hobbits! __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

09-18-2005, 06:02 PM	#14
Formendacil Dead Serious Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Perched on Thangorodrim's towers. Posts: 3,326	I've always thought of it as a compliment- and an apology. Bilbo is admitting that he hasn't made the effort to know them as well as he should, and he admits that they would have been worth knowing. And being Bilbo, he does it in such a way as to completely befuddle them, as I'm sure he intended. __________________ I prefer history, true or feigned.