Gil-galad and the Númenóreans

[Saurreg]

I always wondered how Gil-galad felt about the Númenóreans on the whole. He was after all the high king of the Noldor and the númenóreans were descended from the very race that were the vassels of his forefathers. How would he had felt when the lesser race that his father once held in servitude were then more powerful then he was? How would he have felt if he had to call these people for aid almost all the time and, possibly felt the envy and humiliation when Ar-Pharazon came to middle-earth with forces he could only dream of?

I tried picturing myself in Gil-galad's shoes and all i could fathom were dark thoughts bordering on disbelief and envy. To have a race that I once deemed inferior now more powerful then I am is hard to swallow.

Does anyone share the same sentiments/thoughts as I do?

[Manwe Sulimo]

Gil-galad never had to feel fear/envy at Ar-Pharazon....he never met or saw him. The good king (sarcasm) landed in Umbar, and avoided Faithful havens such as Pelargir, Lond Daer, and Elven Eriador. Gil-galad never asked the Númenóreans for help....they just came. When Sauron overran Eriador, he still didn't have the power to assail Lindon or Rivendell, which means that the Elves were still pretty friggin' powerful....Just not strong enough to attack. The Númenóreans had no need to stay on the defensive, so they commited all their forces (probably about equal to the Elves) to an attack, and that's how they freed Middle-earth.

With Elendil, it was a friendship, so Gil-galad probably never felt any negative feelings.

[ December 15, 2002: Message edited by: Manwe Sulimo ]

[lindil]

M.Sulimo, you are corrct that Gil-Galad and Ar-Pharzon did not meet, although surely he had grave misgivings regarding all he would have heard from the Faithful and that any of his scouts/allies may have reported.

However as we see in UT [ Aldarion and Erendis] he did indeed send to Aldarion's father for help who responded by abdicating the throne to Aldarion who replied and returned for many years to M-E.

Later if I recall during the War of the Elves and Sauron Gil-Galad appealed to [ and was succoured by ] the as yet unfallen Numenoreans.

[Galorme]

There are two questions being asked here:

1) Was Gil-Galad jelous of the Númenóreans as they became more powerful

2) How did he react to their fall?

Well 1) I expect he wasn't, as Elves (well most Elves) dont seem to be that jelous of the power of others, and I am sure any jelousy he felt would have been offset against the fact that they were helping him with the war. 2) Probably badly, i expect he greatly feared an invasion of Lindon.

[the witch king]

I think that after Sauron was taken in to the service of Ar-pharazon, Gil-galad may have feard attack from Numenor after all they killed the faith full why not go for the the kingdom of the greatest elf-lord east of the sea?

[Saurreg]

I think one reason why i tried to place myself in Gil-galad's shoes was that Tolkien never fully explored the second-age and its inhabitants that throughoutly. No one really knows Gil-galad's character well. Was he as powerful as Fingolfin? Valiant as his daddy? Wise as Finrod? Or finally as proud as Turgon?

Or maybe he was simply playing the great statesman game that all great leaders and rulers are so profficient at - being able to do what is required at the time without allowing personal feelings to interferr. That would explain why he kept such close ties with the númenóreans (he needed their reinforcements) and permitted Elendil and his sons a much larger landmass for their kingdoms compared to Lindon (to act as a buffer from Mordor while he continues to built up his strength)