Elven origins - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Thingol1000 · 12-13-2002, 11:30 AM

Hi All,
New member here, I have a question, relativly broad, and perhaps unanswerable, but I figure maybe you people would know.
1)Roughly what is the estimate of time passage between the awakening of the eldar on the shores of Lake Cunivial (sp?? I know I butchered that one, sorry) and the flight of the Noldar from Valinor?
2) Was Finwe, Olwe, etc the first to awaken, thus they were chosen as kings, or they became kings/leaders by virtue of going to valinor?
This roockie appreciates any answers, thank you.

Galorme · 12-13-2002, 11:48 AM

1) Its quite hard to say, but the (what I think) most reliable figure comes from the Anuals of Aman, it was 445 years of the Trees. There were 84000 hours in every year of the trees, therefore there were 37380000 hours between the awakening and the flight. There are 24 x 365 hours in a yeah of the Sun. 37380000/8760 = 4267. So roughtly 4270 years of our time.

2) I think that they became Kings after they had traveled to Valinor, but I am not sure.

Thingol1000 · 12-13-2002, 12:47 PM

Brilliant!
I was wondering about that for a while. Book of Aman is where?
Thanks again!

Galorme · 12-14-2002, 05:09 AM

The Annuals of Aman were a set of dates and information about the ages before the Rise of the Sun. They are included in the History of Middle Earth series in many forms (The Annuals of Valinor are the earlier versions). The final version, where I get my numbers from, is in the book Morgoth's Ring (HoME X)(don't be deceived by the name, he never had a ring as such. Rather the whole world was his ring).

Orald · 12-14-2002, 12:46 PM

Imin, Tata, and Enel were the first three elves to awake.

Galorme · 12-14-2002, 08:23 PM

Nice names. Did more awake after those or was the entire Elven race spawned from those 3? (Thats not as Stupid as it sounds, men only got 2 (Adam and Eve)).

Orald · 12-15-2002, 09:50 PM

They were three men, then their wives awoke shortly after them. It is all in HoME 11 in Quendi and Eldar. In all there were 144 original elves called the unbegotten because they were not born of elves.

Galorme · 12-16-2002, 10:17 AM

Ahh ok yeah i have yet to read that essay (I have been putting it off for a while, i skipped ahead to XII cause i wanted to read the Shibbeth)

Whats the sigificance of 144? Isn't that also an Elvish year?

Orald · 12-16-2002, 11:26 AM

Six and twelve are important numbers to the elves, and also multiples of them. As for 144 years of the sun in one Valian year, i think that was abandonned for the 9.582 years of the sun.

12-13-2002, 11:30 AM	#1
Thingol1000 Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 37	Elven origins Hi All, New member here, I have a question, relativly broad, and perhaps unanswerable, but I figure maybe you people would know. 1)Roughly what is the estimate of time passage between the awakening of the eldar on the shores of Lake Cunivial (sp?? I know I butchered that one, sorry) and the flight of the Noldar from Valinor? 2) Was Finwe, Olwe, etc the first to awaken, thus they were chosen as kings, or they became kings/leaders by virtue of going to valinor? This roockie appreciates any answers, thank you.

12-13-2002, 11:48 AM	#2
Galorme Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London Posts: 337	1) Its quite hard to say, but the (what I think) most reliable figure comes from the Anuals of Aman, it was 445 years of the Trees. There were 84000 hours in every year of the trees, therefore there were 37380000 hours between the awakening and the flight. There are 24 x 365 hours in a yeah of the Sun. 37380000/8760 = 4267. So roughtly 4270 years of our time. 2) I think that they became Kings after they had traveled to Valinor, but I am not sure. __________________ Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! The day has come! Behold people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!

12-14-2002, 05:09 AM	#4
Galorme Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London Posts: 337	The Annuals of Aman were a set of dates and information about the ages before the Rise of the Sun. They are included in the History of Middle Earth series in many forms (The Annuals of Valinor are the earlier versions). The final version, where I get my numbers from, is in the book Morgoth's Ring (HoME X)(don't be deceived by the name, he never had a ring as such. Rather the whole world was his ring). __________________ Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! The day has come! Behold people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!

12-14-2002, 08:23 PM	#6
Galorme Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London Posts: 337	Nice names. Did more awake after those or was the entire Elven race spawned from those 3? (Thats not as Stupid as it sounds, men only got 2 (Adam and Eve)). __________________ Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! The day has come! Behold people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!

12-16-2002, 10:17 AM	#8
Galorme Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London Posts: 337	Ahh ok yeah i have yet to read that essay (I have been putting it off for a while, i skipped ahead to XII cause i wanted to read the Shibbeth) Whats the sigificance of 144? Isn't that also an Elvish year? __________________ Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! The day has come! Behold people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!

12-13-2002, 12:47 PM	#3
Thingol1000 Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 37	Brilliant! I was wondering about that for a while. Book of Aman is where? Thanks again!

12-14-2002, 12:46 PM	#5
Orald Shadow of Malice Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: right behind you Posts: 843	Imin, Tata, and Enel were the first three elves to awake.

12-15-2002, 09:50 PM	#7
Orald Shadow of Malice Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: right behind you Posts: 843	They were three men, then their wives awoke shortly after them. It is all in HoME 11 in Quendi and Eldar. In all there were 144 original elves called the unbegotten because they were not born of elves.

12-16-2002, 11:26 AM	#9
Orald Shadow of Malice Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: right behind you Posts: 843	Six and twelve are important numbers to the elves, and also multiples of them. As for 144 years of the sun in one Valian year, i think that was abandonned for the 9.582 years of the sun.