Most Tragic Figure

[Felagund]

Fëanor. Obviously. He had the potential to be the mightiest of all the children of Eru in Arda, and to do the most good. Instead he doomed all of his people, and probably worst of all, his own children. Imagine if he had not allowed himself to be governed by pride, when the Silmarils were stolen? If he had listened to the cautious words of Finarfin? If he had been swayed by the Doom of Mandos? Indeed, all he did came to nought and ruin. Had he even refrained from burning the ships at Losgar, much sorrow could be avoided, and Melkor might not have been able to sow the seeds of dissension amongst the Noldor, and would ahve faced a unified Leaguer of that people. Indeed, it was his pride that led to his fall, for had he but used caution, or rather cared that Melkor had raised a great defense about Angband, he might not have fallen at the hands of Gothmog. Fëanor might well have had the power to fell Melkor, indeed breaking the doom Mandos had set before him, for he was the most powerful of all the peoples of Arda.

If that's not tragic, I don't know what is.

[Felagund]

Has anyone realized that the WORLD i.e. Arda, is a tragic figure in Tolkien's works? At the end of every age, the world is that much more diminished. Everything following the raising of the first Pillars is frought with sorrow. Morgoth destroys the pillars. The world is diminished. The trees are killed. The world is diminished. The Silmarils are lost for good. The world is diminished. Numenor is destroyed. The world is diminished. Aman/Valinor is seperated from the circles of the world. The world is diminished. The One Ring is destroyed, and all the works that were sustained by any of the lesser rings wither and fade. The world is diminished. The last of the High Elves leave the Middle-Earth. The world is diminished.

The entire story of Arda, from start to finish is frought with tragedy. Or it's just plain sad. You decide.

Wow! What a difficult question! There are so many tragic figures in the books who can pick just one as the most tragic?!

-Gollum
-Feanor
-Turin
-as a matter of fact, Turin's whole family

my gosh this list could go on forever, but those were the most notable to me.

[mormegil]

I would aver that Melkor is the most tragic figure in all of Tolkien's works. Think of the greatness he had the potential to be. Although one could assert that he did have a greatness to him it was turned to evil. He was the greatest of the Valar and yet became the most accursed. Had he but been sufficiently humble he would have been greater than Manwë himself. Yet, tragically the tale is told differently and all sorrow from Arda originated with his rebellion. Careful contemplation would lead one to discover that he is the most tragic figure and the catalyst for all other tragedies in Arda.

Oooo. Good one mormegil, I never thought of that.

[Thinlómien]

You're definitely right, Estelyn! Women should be noticed better in this issue. Though Tolkien doesn't have a lot of important woman characters, they all seem to be tragic, especially those you mentioned.

I think also that Boromir is a very tragic character.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

Mho, did you notice that your list has only male names?! How about the women who were tragic characters? Sharku at least mentioned Finduilas...
From LotR, Eowyn has the tragic element of loving Aragorn without being loved in return - that changes later, but is tragic nonetheless.
From Appendix A, Gilraen (Aragorn's mother)is a tragic character, dying hopeless: "I gave Hope to the Dunedain, I have kept no hope for myself."
And what about Tar-Miriel (Silm), being forced into marriage by a man who used her to get the crown, then brought ruin upon Numenor and death to her in its destruction?!Perhaps others who know the Silm and UT better than I do can find additional examples of tragic women's fates!

If we are looking for tragic women, Morwen would definately be near the top of the list. Lost her husband, young daughter, older daughter, and her son could do not right. Hurin's whole family could be viewed as tragic.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by mormegil

If we are looking for tragic women, Morwen would definately be near the top of the list. Lost her husband, young daughter, older daughter, and her son could do not right. Hurin's whole family could be viewed as tragic.

And this after she has already had to flee her homeland of Dorthonion as a youth, leaving behind home, belongings, and close family: her father, her uncle, her great-uncle, in the war that resulted in her grandfather's death.

It's odd, but although I intellectually knew that before, I only just made the emotional connection of the effects of the Dagor Bragollach to the life of Morwen. Curious... No wonder Rian, gentle soul that she was, died after the Nirnaeth. They had seen a lot of pain already...

[mormegil]

I probably should have taken more time on that post but I did it this morning just before I left to work, so time was limited. Thank you for adding to it Formendacil

I belive that Boromir was the most tragic figure, his death was very heroic.

Call me odd, and you may well laugh at me but here it goes. I know that every tale has its "bad character" but isn't Sauron a tragic character. He was possibly the mightiest of the Maiar and probably (if he hadn’t been seduced by Melkor) would have been loved and admired by Middle Earth in much the same way Gandalf was. To have basically his whole being to be consumed by power, wanting nothing but to dominate middle earth, maybe even Númemor itself, (always preferring to work behind the scenes and indeed when the dark lord does come face to face in battle he is always defeated) then to have that power, his driving force, taken from him during the Great Battle. Taken is the wrong word, he lost it in the worst sense of the word, because he literally couldn't find it no matter how much he called for the ring or how much the ring called and yearned for him. It didn’t matter how large his armies were or how powerful his hold on people was nor how fierce his reputation was, he couldn’t get back the thing he craved most. He spent thousands of years searching for the ring that would give him what he craved, only to have it destroyed almost within arms reach.

Just a thought however there are plenty of tradgic characters in Tolkiens works, some that I havn't even heard of yet I'm sad to say but I thought I'd try and think of something original.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Boromir is one of the most tragic characters. He was tormented by the Ring the whole time he was on the quest, and as a result, was never completely trusted by other Fellowship members. He really did only want the best for Gondor, but in the end, he wasn't even able to help.
Denethor is also tragic. He started out as a very intelligent, noble man... but his tragic flaw was his pride. Because of this pride, he neglected his younger son and in the end was driven insane by Sauron. Once I got over my horror at what he was doing, I felt bad for him. He could have been great, but he was twisted into evil.
Frodo's story is also tragic. He set out with no real intention of going all the way to Mordor, but he did, and it destroyed him to the point that he couldn't live on Middle-earth any more. I found it incredibly sad that he set out with the goal of saving the Shire, but when he returned, he found it completely changed and ruined. Even after driving out the evil, he couldn't stay. He was ill frequently, and probably in pain a good deal of the time, due to the destruction of the Ring. In the end, he couldn't even enjoy the return to the way of life that he had set out to save. He was a hero, but sometimes that can have a huge, even tragic price.

[The Perky Ent]

Well, my opinion has changed very recently on this. Originally I would have said Boromir or Turin, but I just reread the Chapter 'Of the Ruin of Doriath', and I now believe that Hurin was the most tragic of Tolkien's characters. Because he defies Morgoth, Hurin is forced to endure perhaps the most deadly of tourtures: Emotional torture.

Therefore with my eyes thou shalt see, and with my ears thou shalt hear; and never shalt thou move from this place until all is fulfilled unto its bitter end

Melkor gives him essentially part of his own power, just so he can watch his family suffer. You'd think also that during Hurin's watching person he was made, to some extent, invounerable. After around twenty years of sitting chained in a chair, he'd probably develope some pretty bad bedsores! Although Turin's tale is incredibly sad, Hurin is constantly watching. He doesn't share the physical pain of Turin, but he indures a greater pain: Watching helplessly while his family dies. There is, however, a chance I could be exageration the emotional pain Hurin indures in his chair, as

it is not said that Hurin asked ever of Morgoth either mercy or death, for himself or for any of his kin.

Although, this could also imply that Hurin's strength of will was so great that he would indure years of tourture before succumbing to the will of Morgoth. Could this possibly make Hurin the strongest men ever? As if killing 70 trolls wasn't enough, Hurin has a strong enough will of mind to not beg for mercy at the hands of Melkor!

Well, with his children dead, Melkor releases him, most likly knowing that his tragic life is not yet over.

Therefore they did not lay hands on Hurin, but let him walk at will in those lands; in which they were wise, for the remnant of his own people shunned him, because of his coming from Angband as one in league and honour with Morgoth. Thus his freedom did but increase the bitterness of Hurin

By this point, you'd like Hurin would take his own life like Turin, but he still wanders for Morwen. After all the turmoil, he finds his wife, and spends just one day with her before she passes, and then comemorates her in the Stone of the Hapless. If matters couldn't get worse, Hurin was now the last of Dor-Lomin, and that thought itself must have been a heavy burden for him. Having little spirit left in him, he doesn't hesitate to kill Mîm, and take the Nauglamír.

It is after he takes the Nauglamír that the last part of Hurin's tragic life is fufiled: The ruin of Doriath. By giving Thingol the Nauglamír, he will bring about the king's death, the departure of melain, and the ruin of Doriath. Yet, although his action condemns Doriath, he says

Receive now, lord, the Necklace of the Dwarves, as a gift from one who has nothing, and as a memorial of Hurin of Dor-lomin. For now my fate is fufilled, and the purpose of Morgoth achieved; but I am his thrall no longer

He expresses at this point that Morgoth is no longer his slave master, and he ends his life by jumping to his death in the sea. In my opinion, Hurin's sorrow is Turin + 100!

I don't really know how to end this, so I'll just end it. I believe Hurin is the most tragic of Tolkien's Characters!

[Glirdan]

Wow!! Where to start. And such a good question to. There are so many. Fëanor, Turin and his family, Galadriel and way more than that. The most tragic in my opinion would be Galadriel. She has had to endure Middle-Earth for three ages, her own choice of course, yet she has not once complained about it. But you can tell that she greatly missed Valinor and the land of her birth, which was probably her biggest sorrow. She also had to put up with having Frodo in Lothlorien and to withstand the will of the One Ring which proved to be the greatest test she was put up against.

I don't need to explain why Fëanor and Turin and his family are tragic heroes. That's already pretty obvious.

[Telchar]

Im not sure, but maybe you guys should try to define what tragic caracter means... is it A: The one who bore the bigger sorrow? or B: He whos life ends more tragicly, compared to he/she might otherwise have achived. I think the latter.

With that in mind I belive, like Mister Underhill on page one, that Caracters who fell from greatness are the most tragic - those who were ensnared by lust for power such as Saruman and Sauron, but also Ted Sandyman and Lotho. By imposed sorrow and dispair like Denethor. Or by fear such as the latter kings of Numenor (fear of death).

Among those I regard the fall of Saruman and his end, his hatred and malice was the saddest.

Gandalf in Fangorn
‘Then is not Saruman a traitor?’ said Gimli.
‘Indeed yes,’ said Gandalf. ‘Doubly. And is not that strange? Nothing that we have endured of late has seemed so grievous as the treason of Isengard.

Frodo in The Shire
He was great once, of a noble kind that we should not dare to raise our hands against. He is fallen, and his cure is beyond us; but I would still spare him, in the hope that he may find it.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Telchar

Im not sure, but maybe you guys should try to define what tragic caracter means... is it A: The one who bore the bigger sorrow? or B: He whos life ends more tragicly, compared to he/she might otherwise have achived. I think the latter.

With that in mind I belive, like Mister Underhill on page one, that Caracters who fell from greatness are the most tragic - those who were ensnared by lust for power such as Saruman and Sauron, but also Ted Sandyman and Lotho. By imposed sorrow and dispair like Denethor. Or by fear such as the latter kings of Numenor (fear of death).

Among those I regard the fall of Saruman and his end, his hatred and malice was the saddest.

It seems to me that Saruman's fall never quite acquires the emotional feel of anguish and regret that the falls of Tolkien's other tragic heroes have, because we are so little shown Saruman in the process of that fall. That final scene in the The Shire, where Grima turns on him, is excrutiatingly well done, but I miss not seeing just how Saruman got there. We tend to be given simply the consequences. This has always, to me, been a missed opportunity for character development, so that Saruman never quite makes it to the pantheon of other tragic heroes.

[Telchar]

It's just that the thread asks for most Tragic Figure not most tragic Hero

[Anguirel]

I believe Bethberry's point still applies. She's not questioning Saruman on the grounds that he is not heroic, (which is debatable-he could be seen as heroic in the Macbeth sense) but rather because several stages of the process of his fall from grace are not documented, a valid objection.

We do see the workings of his jealousy against Gandalf corrupting him, however. But the tantalising description of him seeking out too much knowledge-in other words, experiencing the fall of Faustus, of Icarus, or of Dante's Odysseus-is not covered in detail, and this is to my mind the more interesting aspect.

[Essex]

To me, the reason why I put forward Frodo (as a few others have) as the most tragic figure is that he (in all his victories) has to put up with the Ring being taken from him forceably. We do not see his possible descent into madness, and this no doubt is an extreme view, but, like Gollum, he did not give the Ring up freely, and he still has to pay the consequences. Yes, he was bitten, stung and stabbed, and these wounds will take time to heal that he will hopefully achieve in the West, but what of his mental scars of losing the Ring?

This is why I see him as the most Tragic figure in Tolkien's work. To me, I need to feel some apathy towards a figure for them to be seen as tragic to me. this may be an incorrect interpretation of Tragedy, but this is what I feel nonetheless.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

I believe Bethberry's point still applies. She's not questioning Saruman on the grounds that he is not heroic, (which is debatable-he could be seen as heroic in the Macbeth sense) but rather because several stages of the process of his fall from grace are not documented, a valid objection.

We do see the workings of his jealousy against Gandalf corrupting him, however. But the tantalising description of him seeking out too much knowledge-in other words, experiencing the fall of Faustus, of Icarus, or of Dante's Odysseus-is not covered in detail, and this is to my mind the more interesting aspect.

Quite so, yes. As readers, we really are not allowed to experience vicariously his fall, as we are asked, I think, to experience Frodo's anquish and even Gollem's terrible fate.

But does the concept of tragedy incorporate only a fall from greatness, or does it also involve the terrible way in which a character tries to avoid the fall or the fate, but whose very effort makes the fall inevitable? Is irony part of tragedy or only pity? Do the gods toy with tragic characters?

Originally Posted by Essex

To me, I need to feel some apathy towards a figure for them to be seen as tragic to me. this may be an incorrect interpretation of Tragedy, but this is what I feel nonetheless.

Not to question your interpretation of tragedy, but I don't quite understand what you mean by 'apathy' here, Essex.

[Gothmog]

Well, I've already spoken for Gwindor as the elf who had it hardest (here)
but when I read this thread I came to think about the sons of Feanor. At least Maedhros and Maglor. They lived their lives trapped by the oath of their father and I've always felt as if those two could have gone an other way if things would have been different.

All of Feanors sons was born in one of the most noble of families and they were all gifted in one way or another. But as the time passed, they were all involved in the downfall of the noldor. Still I don't think they were evil. Ok, it's hard to find any good deeds amongst Celegorm, Curufin and Caranthir. But for example: Elrond and Elros ended up just fine after beeing taken care of by Maglor

For Maglor took pity upon Elros and Elrond, and he cherished them, and love grew after between them, as little might be thought; but Maglor's heart was sick and weary with the burden of the dreadful oath.

None of them was a saint, but I feal sorry for them. As always, it's a question of definition; what is a tragic figure?

And their death may also grant them a place in the tragic hall of fame. Finally able to put their hands on the Silmarils but as is said about Maedhros:

...and that his right thereto had become void, and the oathwas vain.

One throwing himself in to a chasm of fire in "anguish and despair" and the other forever wandering the shores, "singing in pain and regret".

Is that to be called tragic?