Accepting changes that were made

[Lathriel]

Did the documentaries on the Extended Edition make you accept some of the changes that were made for the movies or did they not influence you at all?

It actually helped me accept the change with Faramir and other such scenes that fans have difficulty with. (Which doesn't mean I'm okay with everything)However, I thought it was very interesting to find out what the director and screenwriters' point of views were.

So what are your views?

[Encaitare]

I think that watching the extras definitely helped me accept the changes, since they provided logical reasons why said changes were made. For what you said about Faramir, PJ and Co. explained that they couldn't say that the Ring was so tempting and so powerful, and then have Faramir not tempted by it at all. Most of the changes made some kind of sense.

[Lathriel]

It took me a longer time to accept the change on the stairs of Cirith Ungol. Although it made sense that there should be some drama other than just Frodo and co climbing stairs they might have taken another part from that chapter and used it instead.
Also the warg attack is slightly awry and they never had a good explanation for that one. However, when I heard in the documentaries that they had had the idea of letting the wargs attack Edoras I was glad that that never happened.

[Essex]

There's one part of the book that I always struggle with, and that's why does Aragorn let Frodo and Sam go to Modror on their own? Yes, he wants to save Merry and Pippin from certain torment, but wouldn't he sacrfice them for the good of Middle-earth?

The film version comes up with a way around this. Not perfect, and again, it's a dreaded Change, but I think the writers themselves also struggled with why Aragorn let Frodo go, and filmed their version of this. Not that I really agree with the way they did it, but I understand their thinking.....

[Celebuial]

The extra's helped me come to terms with some of the changes but not all of them. Sometimes theres only so much "...but for a cinema audience..." you can take. My friend does Film Studies and she still has problems with some of the changes, so I think we're all justified not to like or understand the need for some of them.

[Lathriel]

I know quite a number of people ho had trouble with Aragron falling of the cliff in TTT. One of my friends who is a fan of romance however, loved it. (rolls eyes)
I always liked it because I thought it was a clever way of including Arwen into the movie and I hardly had to hear the documentary for the explanation.

Indeed the book never akes it very clear as to why Aragorn leaves Frodo and Sam although the movie has a good answer. Maybe they should have taken more time to develop the ideas they had. However, that would have made the movie longer and when I watched it in the theatres I remember that I really had to go to the washroom at the end which is why I made a point of not eating or drinking anything at all during the other two movies.

[Elladan and Elrohir]

Reasons why Aragorn might have let Frodo go (off the top of my head):

1) The Ring would have worked on him and whoever else he took with him the longer they went, thus producing the Boromir effect all over again.

2) His first priority was to deliver Minas Tirith from certain destruction. That may sound unimportant in light of the possibility of the Ring returning to Sauron, but Aragorn's first responsibility was to his own people.

3) His main stated reason in the book and movie: There was still hope for Frodo and Sam if they were allowed to go alone. There was no hope for Merry and Pippin if they were taken to Isengard. Also, the knowledge Saruman would have gained from them would have been detrimental. There was also the fact that Merry and Pippin never would have met Treebeard and so Isengard would never have fallen, but Aragorn didn't know that.

4) Exigency. He had to make a quick decision, and he didn't have time to think through the finer points of the implications of such a decision, such as my first two points (though they may have crossed his mind). He questioned himself several times afterwards (apparently), but Gandalf later comforted him by saying that he made a quick decision, and it turned out to be the right one.

5) He did what he felt, deep down, was the right thing to do. Frodo had gotten safely away, Boromir had almost conveniently fallen in battle, Aragorn was responsible for the Company since Gandalf's fall, the clear path of pursuing the Uruk-Hai had been laid out before him -- all the signs pointed to the decision he made.

It could have gone either way. Ultimately, Aragorn went with his gut feeling, and it turned out to be right.

In the documentary, PJ says always that he cut a scene because that will slow the movie.Like Bombadil, i would like to see Bombadil! And he says that the revolt of the shire make the destruction of the ring, a minor events. I don't accept that he do not turn a scene of the revolt in the shire. I'm sad!

[Lathriel]

I'm glad someone replied to this thread. I myself thought it had died.
Although you say the reasons were of the top of your head I find them good ones Elladan and Elrohir It makes sense to me and it seems very logical. In the book we never have the meeting between Aragorn and Frodo and I wonder why they put it into the movie. Maybe its also to show that Aragorn is indeed not an avrage man but that he does have the wisdom to avoid the ring.(Or that he has a greater power)

[Boromir88]

5) He did what he felt, deep down, was the right thing to do. Frodo had gotten safely away, Boromir had almost conveniently fallen in battle, Aragorn was responsible for the Company since Gandalf's fall, the clear path of pursuing the Uruk-Hai had been laid out before him

This leads me into some minor changes PJ made that actually helped me as a Tolkien reader. Believe it or not, before the movies came out Boromir was NOT my favorite character, not even a guy I thought too highly about. Then the movie comes out and I think it shows Boromir in a different light. Not just as a warrior who had a weak will, but as a good brother, a good son, and a good companion ( if to no one else, atleast Merry and Pippin). Then I swiped off them dusty books and realized what I had missed before about Boromir. Jackson presented this new side of Boromir, with scenes not described in detail in the book, but only briefly mentioned. His friendship with his brother, a guardian-like figure to Merry and Pippin.

To sort of connect this with Aragorn, again PJ adds in dialogue that was not in the book, but I think it suits the character of Boromir, and we get to see a bit of "bookish 'Gorn."

The memorable speech in Lorien, with that glorious, yet depressing music in the background, "One day our paths will lead us there, and the tower guard shall take up the call, the Lords of Gondor have returned." All the way to his death, which is only brief in the book, but Jackson extends it.

This is a key moment in Aragorn (in the movie), a changing point within his character. At first we see him reluctant to claim kingship, he's afraid of becoming like Isildur. I mean up until the end of FOTR Aragorn practically said "no" to whenever Minas Tirith was brought up. We have this throughout, where Agent Elrond says "He has chosen exile," and Aragorn just doesn't want to go to Minas Tirith. Then we have Boromir's death and the changing point in Aragorn. We get another one of them all important oaths, this time from Aragorn to Boromir..."I will not let the White City fall, nor OUR people fail."

Some wonderful I wouldn't call "drastic" change, but some expansions on scenes briefly alluded to in the books, or possibly not even concurrent (is that a word?) to the books.

[Essex]

I've gone the opposite way to you Boromir, regarding your namesake. I also looked more closely at Boromir's character after seeing the scenes in the FOTR movie.

I now see him as an even more petulant, aggresive, arrogant and childish figure. You may think this is extreme, but to me I really get this view of Boromir when I read the books now. He always seems to be arguing with Aragorn on their journey (this is reciprocated by Aragorn, I admit), not quite to the extent of undermining him, but almost.

Yes, he was a great warrior, no doubt, and a great wartime leader. His comparison to his brother Faramir (a far more worthy character) is like Chalk and Cheese. But this is how MANY brothers are, and I can see the total differences between my two young sons myself already.

It's amazing how these films polarise opinion. But at least they give us reasons to go back to the books, even though our 'reading' of them may differ greatly.

[King of the North]

After the first time I saw FotR in the theater I kept going on and on about what was missing, what was added, and how characters were different. But after I watched all the Appendices, I accepted the changes. Primarily because the special features explain the process of translating a work of literature into film. They also show that the writers (PJ, FW, PB), the actors, WETA workshop personnel, and basically anyone with a high position on the film was fanatically loyal to Tolkien. And lastly, we must remember, these films are just a few people's interpretation of LotR. On the RotK Tolkien special feature, one of the biographers said it perfectly (allow me to paraphrase): "Now we have two paths into Middle Earth: Tolkien interpreted by Jackson and Tolkien himself."

[Lathriel]

One thing the changes in the movies made me do was go back to the books and read them more carefully. This way I would always think of the ideas the filmakers got and where they got them from. For example if you try and pay attention to Gimli you can see why they decided to make him represent the comic relief. If you look for it there are times in the book when Gimli does get close to a comic remark or he says something that could be turned into something funny.

[Boromir88]

I now see him as an even more petulant, aggresive, arrogant and childish figure. You may think this is extreme, but to me I really get this view of Boromir when I read the books now.

I don't find it extreme at all, I can see exactly what you mean. Boromir also uses negative satire at times and being sarcastic when he shouldn't, making him look childish. Indeed, I even sympathize more for Denethor than some others, it's certainly easier to hate the man than to like him. (I've always been a softie for these types of characters, that have just been befallen with tragedy).

There were definately problems with Boromir, or there would be no need for his repentance in his final hours. I would argue that most of the problems Boromir causes are after Lorien, when his desire for the ring became shown. There were times (Moria and Lorien) where he voiced his opinion about not going there, but he really wasn't a big problem towards the fellowship then. Even other members said they would prefer not to go into the mines, or into Lorien, it was just Boromir who flat out said I'm not going unless you all go. The main problems with Boromir are after Lorien, when it never says but seems pretty clear, Galadriel addressed Boromir's problem to him (the ring), and when all the times he seemed to supress it, it's now on his mind constantly. He starts biting his fingers, muttering, looking at Frodo, and of course the argument he has with Aragorn. I would say these moments are out of his character, and the effect of the Ring was getting to him. Once the ring is literally and figuratively out of his reach, he realized what he had did, and was sorry for it. "What have I done? What have I said? Frodo a madness took me. But it has passed..." "I'm sorry. I have paid."

I do agree that the movies do project Boromir a lot better, and this made me see some things in the book, that I hadn't before, making me respect him more.

[Essex]

Boromir,

you make a good point here. Yes, from memory I remember his attitude changing on the trip down the River. I've got yet ANOTHER reason to re read the books with this in mind!

Cheers

[Lathriel]

Essex I do the same thing as you do. Besides what better excuse to re-read the book?

As for the beginning of the demise of Boromir, I see it clearly when they climb mount Cahadras. When he picks up the ring I think the process has begun. However, the journey through Moria delays the process because his mind is forced to be busy with other things.
Might I add that the part where Boromor picks uo the ring (whole climbing Cahadras) is an extra scene in the movie and yet I find it one of the most powerful scenes in the fellowship because it doesn't just show Boromir's uncanny interest in the ring;he voices the questions that might be playing around in the viewers minds during the movie.

[Snowdog]

Actually, seeing the seeming smugness of the screenwriters (PJ, FW, PB) caused me to further not accept many of the changes, most notably Arwen sneaking up on Aragorn in the wild, elves in Helms Deep, The Denethor flaregun, and the whole 'Sam go home' cr@p. There was no cinematic need for these at all, and could have been handled way closer to the books while keeping with the process of translating a work of literature into film.

[mormegil]

This may sound stupid but there are some changes I accept...No Bombadil and scouring of the shire....but others I have a difficult time with...One that is completely needless (again it may sound stupid) is that Merry went with the men of the west to the black gate....AHHHHH!!!!! Why? He didn't at all in the books and there was no good reason for him to go...he should have still been healing.

[Lathriel]

That happens to me too. I don't mind the elves coming to helm's deep (In fact I thought that was very cool) but I freaked out when Elrond told Aragorn Arwen was dying and that she was connected to the ring.(Which only takes up one sentence)