It's Eomer time! - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Boromir88 · 01-24-2005, 07:22 PM

Sorry for the queer title, but we've had discussions about Aragorn ,
Frodo , Aragorn and MoS , and I just think it's time for an Eomer discussion.

A common view is that Eomer was underused in the movies. That PJ heightened Theoden's and Gamling's role, and lessened Eomer's. To a point I agree, I mean when you have The one eyed man in TTT get more screen time then Eomer, that's sad.

I think Eomer is definitely underused in the movies, but the things that Jackson has Eomer do is what stands out. He saves the day instead of Erkenbrand. I find this to be a good change (especially for fans who aren't familiar with the books). They see a familiar face, come with Gandalf and save the day at Helm's Deep instead of just a Rohan Marshal who's only glory is in Helm's Deep. Also, with the story that Jackson had set up behind it, it worked well, and was more powerful then just a random Rohan guy. The recently exiled Eomer riding away, is chased down by Gandalf, to come back and save the day. It adds a bit of irony. Theoden (well Grima) banished Eomer, but Eomer comes to save Theoden's butt. Now this does take away Eomer's fighting at Helm's Deep, but I think it is a suitable change, all for the better.

This is another rather minor thing, but I like it. In the books it is Gandalf who tells Grima "Too long have you haunted her (Eowyn's) steps...etc." PJ gives this line to Eomer, and again this holds more power, or meaning, behind it with Eowyn's brother threatening Grima, instead of Gandalf.

I can't go without mentioning Karl Urban's wonderful performance after seeing Eowyn dead on the battlefield (or so he thinks). Maybe, it's just because Urban does a wonderful job acting that we as viewers wished to see him more (and the book fans wished to see Eomer's glory on Pelennor )

Your thoughts on Karl Urban and Eomer's role in the movies?

radagastly · 01-24-2005, 09:38 PM

This is tough, mostly because he does appear so little compared to the books. I agree that it was better to have him save the day at Helm's Deep than to introduce Erkenbrand, another whole character, just for that one sweeping scene. A new character would be too confusing to fit it into the movie at that point. But at the same time, I missed his heroics at Helm's Deep, I missed the developing friendship between him and Aragorn, and the banter with Gimli (it would have been nice to see comic relief from Gimli that Tolkien actually wrote!) Still, I understand why it was done the way it was. It kinda short-changed him though.

His reaction to finding Eowyn at Pelennor made me cry, even more than it's equivalent in the book, I think. It seems to me that in the book, there is so much going on right then, that it was hard to take the time for tears before moving on to the end of the huge battle. I also liked his loyal puppy-dog expression in the Houses of Healing, a scene which he was not scheduled to be in. According to the commentary, he talked to P.J. etc. and convinced them that after the emotional scene at the battle, Eomer needed to be by Eowyn's side until she got better. I tend to wish they'd found more for him to do in Return of the King, though. After all, he is the future king of Rohan.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 01-25-2005, 11:48 AM

...more applause, more I say!

*ahem*

I would have liked at least some recognition that he became King. I was surprised that that was not in the extended version.

(You knew I couldn't resist doing that didn't you Boro?)

Mithalwen · 01-25-2005, 12:18 PM

As I admitted elsewhere, I nearly cried when Eomer found Eowyn. And although a lot of his stuff was omitted, at least what we had was true to the spirit of the Eomer in the book whereas so many of the characters were demeaned for the sake of driving the plot along. At least he picked up some of Imrahil's lines which isn't a bad deal... The rohirrim were shown to be magnificent on the fields of the pelennor and compared favourably to the "high" men of Gondor. But I am sorry they couldn't have worked in the lethal anger of Eomer after thinking Eowyn dead. The increased use of the army of the dead rather demeaned the glory of the mortal warriors. In the book there is a line about Eomer in the midst of battle and grief being young and king of a fell people... I do feel there is something refreshingly straightforward about Eomer. A man of action among the thinkers but not gung ho.

I too wish there had been more about him becoming king and also Thoden's funeral - my big disappointment was that there were no extra scenes after the coronation with say the farewells to Eomer and Eowyn, and Gimli and Legolas.

But I have to say that I thought Karl Urban was magnificent. I am sure he will go a long way. He was probably the least known and experienced actor in a major role and he more than held his own...

Boromir88 · 01-25-2005, 12:25 PM

I agree, I would have loved to seen a scene of Eomer the new King of Rohan. Let me ask this then...

I think a big reason we all wanted to see more Eomer was because of Karl Urban (Yes? No?). So, if let's say Urban wasn't Eomer, and they had some less then average guy act out this part. Act out Eomer finding Eowyn, Eomer threatening Grima...etc, would you still have wished to see more of him?

Mithalwen · 01-25-2005, 12:56 PM

I find this hard because, when I first saw Karl Urban in a picture, he didn't looklike my vision of Eomer - basically I was fixed in a blonder, blue eyed sterotype. But he has become Eomer for me really from the first conversation with Aragorn. He has a great screen presence without "attention " seeking. It hasn't occured to me before but he carried on the dynamism and physicality that Sean Bean contributed to the first movie. I think the film would have really suffered without these actors in these key but "supporting" roles.... so perhaps that is a yes ... we want more of Eomer because Urabn makes him seem a 3 dimensional character, not a cipher...

Assasin · 01-25-2005, 05:12 PM

Eomer was really cool in the movies. He could have used more time on cam, but, I think the movies are just as good without. Does anyone know if he gets married?

Neurion · 01-25-2005, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Assasin

Eomer was really cool in the movies. He could have used more time on cam, but, I think the movies are just as good without. Does anyone know if he gets married?

Yea verily, to fair Lotheriel, daughter unto my lord Imrahil of Dol Amroth.

Neurion · 01-25-2005, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

when I first saw Karl Urban in a picture, he didn't looklike my vision of Eomer - basically I was fixed in a blonder, blue eyed sterotype.

Hey, don't knock us blonde, blue-eyed guys!

Orophin · 01-25-2005, 10:50 PM

The only real misgivings I have about Eomer in the movie are that he didnt get to fight at Helm's Deep and that it didn't go into the frienship between him and Gimli. Thats just me though......

Linnahiril Tinnufinwen · 01-26-2005, 12:07 PM

Although I would have liked to see the character of Eomer with more screen time, Karl Urban did a wonderful job with what he had. Because the screenwriters of LOTRs had to concentrate much more on the members of the Fellowship, all the little subplots and subcharacters in the book had to be given smaller roles. I think this was probably the case with Eomer, as well as them having to change his locations and a bit of his personality to fit their storytelling. I liked Eomer's role at Helm's Deep, and I like his relationship with Eowyn as was portrayed on film. Perhaps with a lesser actor, Eomer's role would have been virtually unnoticeable, but with Karl Urban in it, he made Eomer a memorable movie character, despite the relatively little material he had to work with.

Mithalwen · 01-26-2005, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neurion

Hey, don't knock us blonde, blue-eyed guys!

I didn't and wouldn't.... I merely said that I had envisioned from the books that the Rohirrim would be blonde, blue eyed germanic types .... and so neither Eomer nor Eowyn were quite as expected, but KU and Miranda Otto have superseded these images because of their performances.....

Assasin · 01-26-2005, 01:12 PM

I hate it when people stereo type. Neurion, you're a guy?

Neurion · 01-26-2005, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I didn't and wouldn't.... I merely said that I had envisioned from the books that the Rohirrim would be blonde, blue eyed germanic types .... and so neither Eomer or Eowyn were quite as expected, but KU and Miranda Otto have superseded these images because of their performances.....

Hmm, I take it that by your use of the rolleyes smiley that you haven't realized I was being facetious?

Mithalwen · 01-26-2005, 01:57 PM

*bashes head against wall*

Assasin - my stereotype was based on the books description....it is not unreasonable to base my expectations of the film Eomer on the description of the Rohirrim given in the books....

Neurion - there is a thread elsewhere on the need to be careful withthe more agressive smilies ... I appreciated that youmight not have been serious but your comment suggested you had misunderstood my post.

Finwe-89 · 01-26-2005, 03:01 PM

Well Eomer didn't had a big part in the movies, I think that sucks. Eomer is a great character. He deserved a bigger part in the movies. He was the captian of the Rohirim and the cousin of Theoden. In RotK he had a bigger part on Pellenor fields. But he only shouted:'' AIM FOR THE HEADS!'' and after that:''You cannot atchive victory through strength of armies.'' So that sucked

Neurion · 01-26-2005, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Assasin

Neurion, you're a guy?

Yes, could you not tell?

Rose Cotton · 01-26-2005, 04:20 PM

Quote:

I would have liked at least some recognition that he became King. I was surprised that that was not in the extended version.

I would agree exept that it would have been ending #12 or something like that. Also I think that people who hadn't read the book would naturally asume that he would become king of Rohan anyway.

Unfortunatly Eomer wasn't one of my favorites from the book *ducks flying objects* so I can't really give my opinion on the changes that were made.

However, I must say that Karl Urban did a fantastic acting job. The few times he was on screen I couldn't take my eyes away from him.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 01-27-2005, 08:02 AM

I think we can all agree that the most important thing was how hot he looked.

Mithalwen · 01-27-2005, 09:48 AM

lol - well I did swoon when I saw this short haired clean shaven guy with amazing bone structure in my Empire souvenir photo collection ... I just could hardly believe it was the same guy ...guess they had to hide him under all the hair to stop everyone ignoring Viggo, Orli etc ... *thud*

Assasin · 01-27-2005, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neurion

Yes, could you not tell?

Sorry.

Faramir · 01-27-2005, 04:41 PM

this is probably of topic but i just wanted to know if i was going crazy or not .in the two towers when eomer tells aragorn legolas and gimli "look for your friends but do not trust a hope...it has forsaken this lands" then his sword falls to the ground and he looks at it...did anyone else notice this??

Boromir88 · 01-27-2005, 08:50 PM

Yes you can spot Eomer's sword slip out of it's hilt. So, you aren't crazy, unless we both are?

Kitanna · 01-27-2005, 09:20 PM

Huzzah a thread about Eomer! He's such a good character. A very noble man indeed. It's a disappoint that he's not in PJ's Battle of Helm's Deep, but he was replaced by Elves in the movie. Which makes me giggle because that means he's worth 300 some Elves. And he saved the day with Riders. Which I personally like more then having Erkenbrand whose only moment of glory is saving Theoden at Helm's Deep. But it's a crying shame Karl Urban's role as Eomer seemed so small.

01-24-2005, 09:38 PM	#2
radagastly Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Washington, D. C., USA Posts: 299	This is tough, mostly because he does appear so little compared to the books. I agree that it was better to have him save the day at Helm's Deep than to introduce Erkenbrand, another whole character, just for that one sweeping scene. A new character would be too confusing to fit it into the movie at that point. But at the same time, I missed his heroics at Helm's Deep, I missed the developing friendship between him and Aragorn, and the banter with Gimli (it would have been nice to see comic relief from Gimli that Tolkien actually wrote!) Still, I understand why it was done the way it was. It kinda short-changed him though. His reaction to finding Eowyn at Pelennor made me cry, even more than it's equivalent in the book, I think. It seems to me that in the book, there is so much going on right then, that it was hard to take the time for tears before moving on to the end of the huge battle. I also liked his loyal puppy-dog expression in the Houses of Healing, a scene which he was not scheduled to be in. According to the commentary, he talked to P.J. etc. and convinced them that after the emotional scene at the battle, Eomer needed to be by Eowyn's side until she got better. I tend to wish they'd found more for him to do in Return of the King, though. After all, he is the future king of Rohan. __________________ But all the while I sit and think of times there were before, I listen for returning feet and voices at the door.

01-25-2005, 11:48 AM	#3
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	It's Eomer time... ...more applause, more I say! ahem I would have liked at least some recognition that he became King. I was surprised that that was not in the extended version. (You knew I couldn't resist doing that didn't you Boro?) __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond Last edited by Eomer of the Rohirrim; 01-25-2005 at 11:49 AM. Reason: for laughs

01-25-2005, 12:18 PM	#4
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	As I admitted elsewhere, I nearly cried when Eomer found Eowyn. And although a lot of his stuff was omitted, at least what we had was true to the spirit of the Eomer in the book whereas so many of the characters were demeaned for the sake of driving the plot along. At least he picked up some of Imrahil's lines which isn't a bad deal... The rohirrim were shown to be magnificent on the fields of the pelennor and compared favourably to the "high" men of Gondor. But I am sorry they couldn't have worked in the lethal anger of Eomer after thinking Eowyn dead. The increased use of the army of the dead rather demeaned the glory of the mortal warriors. In the book there is a line about Eomer in the midst of battle and grief being young and king of a fell people... I do feel there is something refreshingly straightforward about Eomer. A man of action among the thinkers but not gung ho. I too wish there had been more about him becoming king and also Thoden's funeral - my big disappointment was that there were no extra scenes after the coronation with say the farewells to Eomer and Eowyn, and Gimli and Legolas. But I have to say that I thought Karl Urban was magnificent. I am sure he will go a long way. He was probably the least known and experienced actor in a major role and he more than held his own... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

01-25-2005, 12:56 PM	#6
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	I find this hard because, when I first saw Karl Urban in a picture, he didn't looklike my vision of Eomer - basically I was fixed in a blonder, blue eyed sterotype. But he has become Eomer for me really from the first conversation with Aragorn. He has a great screen presence without "attention " seeking. It hasn't occured to me before but he carried on the dynamism and physicality that Sean Bean contributed to the first movie. I think the film would have really suffered without these actors in these key but "supporting" roles.... so perhaps that is a yes ... we want more of Eomer because Urabn makes him seem a 3 dimensional character, not a cipher... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

01-25-2005, 05:12 PM	#7
Assasin Wight Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In a desert. Posts: 142	Eomer was really cool in the movies. He could have used more time on cam, but, I think the movies are just as good without. Does anyone know if he gets married? __________________ Death is as light as a feather, duty is as heavy as a mountain.

01-24-2005, 07:22 PM	#1
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,518	It's Eomer time! Sorry for the queer title, but we've had discussions about Aragorn , Frodo , Aragorn and MoS , and I just think it's time for an Eomer discussion. A common view is that Eomer was underused in the movies. That PJ heightened Theoden's and Gamling's role, and lessened Eomer's. To a point I agree, I mean when you have The one eyed man in TTT get more screen time then Eomer, that's sad. I think Eomer is definitely underused in the movies, but the things that Jackson has Eomer do is what stands out. He saves the day instead of Erkenbrand. I find this to be a good change (especially for fans who aren't familiar with the books). They see a familiar face, come with Gandalf and save the day at Helm's Deep instead of just a Rohan Marshal who's only glory is in Helm's Deep. Also, with the story that Jackson had set up behind it, it worked well, and was more powerful then just a random Rohan guy. The recently exiled Eomer riding away, is chased down by Gandalf, to come back and save the day. It adds a bit of irony. Theoden (well Grima) banished Eomer, but Eomer comes to save Theoden's butt. Now this does take away Eomer's fighting at Helm's Deep, but I think it is a suitable change, all for the better. This is another rather minor thing, but I like it. In the books it is Gandalf who tells Grima "Too long have you haunted her (Eowyn's) steps...etc." PJ gives this line to Eomer, and again this holds more power, or meaning, behind it with Eowyn's brother threatening Grima, instead of Gandalf. I can't go without mentioning Karl Urban's wonderful performance after seeing Eowyn dead on the battlefield (or so he thinks). Maybe, it's just because Urban does a wonderful job acting that we as viewers wished to see him more (and the book fans wished to see Eomer's glory on Pelennor ) Your thoughts on Karl Urban and Eomer's role in the movies?

01-25-2005, 12:25 PM	#5
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,518	I agree, I would have loved to seen a scene of Eomer the new King of Rohan. Let me ask this then... I think a big reason we all wanted to see more Eomer was because of Karl Urban (Yes? No?). So, if let's say Urban wasn't Eomer, and they had some less then average guy act out this part. Act out Eomer finding Eowyn, Eomer threatening Grima...etc, would you still have wished to see more of him?

01-25-2005, 10:50 PM	#10
Orophin Animated Skeleton Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Lothlorien Posts: 48	The only real misgivings I have about Eomer in the movie are that he didnt get to fight at Helm's Deep and that it didn't go into the frienship between him and Gimli. Thats just me though...... __________________ Yrch!

01-26-2005, 12:07 PM	#11
Linnahiril Tinnufinwen Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: California Posts: 77	Although I would have liked to see the character of Eomer with more screen time, Karl Urban did a wonderful job with what he had. Because the screenwriters of LOTRs had to concentrate much more on the members of the Fellowship, all the little subplots and subcharacters in the book had to be given smaller roles. I think this was probably the case with Eomer, as well as them having to change his locations and a bit of his personality to fit their storytelling. I liked Eomer's role at Helm's Deep, and I like his relationship with Eowyn as was portrayed on film. Perhaps with a lesser actor, Eomer's role would have been virtually unnoticeable, but with Karl Urban in it, he made Eomer a memorable movie character, despite the relatively little material he had to work with. __________________ The world is a great book, of which they who never stir from home read only a page

01-26-2005, 01:12 PM	#13
Assasin Wight Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In a desert. Posts: 142	I hate it when people stereo type. Neurion, you're a guy? __________________ Death is as light as a feather, duty is as heavy as a mountain.

01-26-2005, 01:57 PM	#15
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	bashes head against wall Assasin - my stereotype was based on the books description....it is not unreasonable to base my expectations of the film Eomer on the description of the Rohirrim given in the books.... Neurion - there is a thread elsewhere on the need to be careful withthe more agressive smilies ... I appreciated that youmight not have been serious but your comment suggested you had misunderstood my post. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

01-26-2005, 03:01 PM	#16
Finwe-89 Wight Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In Lotholorien, looking in the mirror that shows that there is still hope for life... Posts: 84	Well Eomer didn't had a big part in the movies, I think that sucks. Eomer is a great character. He deserved a bigger part in the movies. He was the captian of the Rohirim and the cousin of Theoden. In RotK he had a bigger part on Pellenor fields. But he only shouted:'' AIM FOR THE HEADS!'' and after that:''You cannot atchive victory through strength of armies.'' So that sucked __________________ Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum- ishi krimpatul... Beware: Don't speak this loud when you're alone in the dark... Unless you really want it... But don't say I didn't warn you...

01-27-2005, 08:02 AM	#19
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	I think we can all agree that the most important thing was how hot he looked. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

01-27-2005, 09:48 AM	#20
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	lol - well I did swoon when I saw this short haired clean shaven guy with amazing bone structure in my Empire souvenir photo collection ... I just could hardly believe it was the same guy ...guess they had to hide him under all the hair to stop everyone ignoring Viggo, Orli etc ... thud __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

01-27-2005, 04:41 PM	#22
Faramir Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In the Forest of Ithilien. Posts: 43	this is probably of topic but i just wanted to know if i was going crazy or not .in the two towers when eomer tells aragorn legolas and gimli "look for your friends but do not trust a hope...it has forsaken this lands" then his sword falls to the ground and he looks at it...did anyone else notice this??

01-27-2005, 08:50 PM	#23
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,518	You aren't crazy. Yes you can spot Eomer's sword slip out of it's hilt. So, you aren't crazy, unless we both are?

01-27-2005, 09:20 PM	#24
Kitanna Child of the West Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Watching President Fillmore ride a unicorn Posts: 2,132	Huzzah a thread about Eomer! He's such a good character. A very noble man indeed. It's a disappoint that he's not in PJ's Battle of Helm's Deep, but he was replaced by Elves in the movie. Which makes me giggle because that means he's worth 300 some Elves. And he saved the day with Riders. Which I personally like more then having Erkenbrand whose only moment of glory is saving Theoden at Helm's Deep. But it's a crying shame Karl Urban's role as Eomer seemed so small. __________________ "Let us live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain