Sauron's mockery of Eru - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Iarhen · 03-24-2003, 09:13 AM

We can see this when we read Elrond's description of what would happen to the Elven Rings, their bearers and their works, if Sauron recovered the One Ring.

Among the consecuences, Sauron would turn evil all that Galadriel, Cirdan/Gandalf and Elrond did with Nenya, Narya and Vilya.

We know also that Eru told Melkor, in the Beggining, that all Evil that Melkor would do would turn out in a greater good.

I think Sauron was aware of this, so among all the intentions he had, he wanted to make another mockery of Eru's and the Valar's works: "if all evil is supposed to turn out for the greater good, Im gonna make that all good created with the 3 elven rings turn out for the greater evil"

Don't you see it that way?

lathspell · 03-24-2003, 11:13 AM

Well, I think you are right when you say that Sauron knew about it, and if he knew it would certainly be mockery, but I guess it would be mockery against the Valar and the Elves.
Yet, ofcourse Eru will be right in the End... everything will be for the greater good as we saw when Sauron perishes in the End and Aragorn rules a great realm in M-e

Scott · 03-24-2003, 06:47 PM

I really have to agree with you here too. Every relation that Melkor and Sauron had with the elves was bent towards putting the screws to Eru: orcs and goblins, the silmaril episodes.

I also see this as a direct connection to the silmarils as well. They were made by the elves, there were three of them, and they were made into implements of deception. I think Sauron may have been dipping into Melkor's bag of tricks when he came up with the idea for the ring!

Iarhen · 03-24-2003, 08:16 PM

Exactly!!! I believe that the Silamrils even had a power of regeneration, just like the Elven Rings had.

Only this time the search for the silmarils did not end with the slaughtering of elves, but with the main ones ensnared by the power of Sauron and with the threat of total dominion over the race...

akhtene · 03-25-2003, 09:38 PM

Quote:

(Sauron) wanted to make another mockery of Eru's and the Valar's works: "if all evil is supposed to turn out for the greater good, Im gonna make that all good created with the 3 elven rings turn out for the greater evil"

On the whole I agree with the idea, though I do not think the word "mockery" is right. To me it implies making something seem absurd, or imitating smth in an absurd way. I accept that trolls are a mockery of ents (just imagine those two side by side [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] ). But in case of the rings, the approaches are absolutely different. While Eru is confident that everything must turn out for the good (by Music, or Fate, or Predestination), Sauron will have to
struggle to change the cause of events and ruin all that's been created by many. Or do you think a piece of jewellery on the finger and a soft throne under the *** is enough to watch the collaps of the world? [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]
Well, the idea Sauron got may be the mirror image of Eru's designs, but I don't suppose he was going to be an idle spectator.

03-24-2003, 09:13 AM	#1
Iarhen Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Laurelindorenan Posts: 225	Sauron's mockery of Eru We can see this when we read Elrond's description of what would happen to the Elven Rings, their bearers and their works, if Sauron recovered the One Ring. Among the consecuences, Sauron would turn evil all that Galadriel, Cirdan/Gandalf and Elrond did with Nenya, Narya and Vilya. We know also that Eru told Melkor, in the Beggining, that all Evil that Melkor would do would turn out in a greater good. I think Sauron was aware of this, so among all the intentions he had, he wanted to make another mockery of Eru's and the Valar's works: "if all evil is supposed to turn out for the greater good, Im gonna make that all good created with the 3 elven rings turn out for the greater evil" Don't you see it that way? __________________ "In place of a Dark Lord you will have a Queen! Not dark but beatiful and terrible as the Dawn! Treacherous as the sea! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair!" --- Galadriel when tempted by the One Ring.

03-24-2003, 11:13 AM	#2
lathspell Regenerating Ringkeeper Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 757	Well, I think you are right when you say that Sauron knew about it, and if he knew it would certainly be mockery, but I guess it would be mockery against the Valar and the Elves. Yet, ofcourse Eru will be right in the End... everything will be for the greater good as we saw when Sauron perishes in the End and Aragorn rules a great realm in M-e __________________ 'You?' cried Frodo. 'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'

03-24-2003, 06:47 PM	#3
Scott Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ohio/Grey Havens Posts: 183	I really have to agree with you here too. Every relation that Melkor and Sauron had with the elves was bent towards putting the screws to Eru: orcs and goblins, the silmaril episodes. I also see this as a direct connection to the silmarils as well. They were made by the elves, there were three of them, and they were made into implements of deception. I think Sauron may have been dipping into Melkor's bag of tricks when he came up with the idea for the ring! __________________ Those who the Gods would destroy, They first make mad. ~Those Crazy Greeks

03-24-2003, 08:16 PM	#4
Iarhen Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Laurelindorenan Posts: 225	Exactly!!! I believe that the Silamrils even had a power of regeneration, just like the Elven Rings had. Only this time the search for the silmarils did not end with the slaughtering of elves, but with the main ones ensnared by the power of Sauron and with the threat of total dominion over the race... __________________ "In place of a Dark Lord you will have a Queen! Not dark but beatiful and terrible as the Dawn! Treacherous as the sea! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair!" --- Galadriel when tempted by the One Ring.