Ring Bearers - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Joy · 03-12-2002, 01:51 AM

In another topic, we discussed who bore the ring of power. Click here to read.

I noted that these people bore the ring.
1. Sauron - who made it
2. Isildur - who cut it from Sauron's hand
3. Deagol - who found it in the river where Isildur lost it.
4. Smeagol/Gollum - who murdered Deagol for the ring.
5. Bilbo Baggins - who found the ring in the cave, read the Hobbit.
6. Frodo Baggins - who received it from Bilbo when he left the Shire.
7. Samwise Gamgee - who took it from Frodo when he thought that he was dead from Shelob's poison.

Isildur and Sam were the only ones who had the ring that married. Isildur was already married and had children when he possesed the ring. Sam was the only ring bearer that married after possessing the ring.

My question is why did the others not marry? Was it beacause the ring had power over their minds? Why the was Sam able to marry? Is it because he only took the ring to keep it from being taken by the enemy and that he did not acctualy posses it?

Rosa Underhill · 03-12-2002, 02:41 AM

Here's the way I see it:

Sauron: demons aren't really into marriage; besides, who'd want to marry a guy like Sauron, anyways? He's too power hungry for any woman to stand for long.

Deagol: I'm thinking that he didn't live long enough to get married. Poor guy.

Smeagol/Gollum: Too obsessed over the Ring by the end, but I always saw him as being close in age to Deagol, so he might have been too young to marry, too.

Bilbo: some people just aren't meant for marriage. Bilbo is one. He preffered being by himself at home and, after all that adventuring he did, well, again, who in the Shire (particularly of his class) would wan to marry him? Poor guy. I'd've married him...

Frodo: I think he was just too hurt; he couldn't share that pain with anyone, not even his dearest friend, Sam, so he left tot he only place where he could find healing. Poor guy.

That's just my two cents.

***Sharkû*** · 03-12-2002, 06:19 AM

This thread has a very comprehensive discussion of the nature of the Ring that also caused this peculiarity of its bearers.

Kuruharan · 03-12-2002, 08:12 AM

LOL!!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

I wondered if that thread would come up.

Raefindel · 03-12-2002, 11:55 AM

I think it is more than just that the ringbearers did not Marry. Many characters in Tolkien's works did not, Legolas and Gimli among them. There just seems to be a different view of marriage in ME. It is not necessary to marry to be happy. Often not a popular opinion in todays world. It stands out to us.

VanimaEdhel · 03-12-2002, 06:36 PM

1. Sauron - Okay: do you think he would ever be able to have ANY competition to his power? And would anyone marry him without his forcing them? He would not wish to marry
2. Isildur - He probably died before he could find a wife
3. Deagol - He died before he had the ring long, and he was young
4. Smeagol/Gollum - He ran away and lived in the cave alone so long...
5. Bilbo Baggins - Hmmm...well, he was getting on a bit already when he found the ring...not old mind you, but...olDER. Don't know...maybe there was no one right...or maybe it was the ring
6. Frodo Baggins - Well, it was either the ring or the same case as was with Bilbo. I forget: did he travel afterwards? If so, then he may not have had TIME to find a wife!
7. Samwise Gamgee - Well, come ON! He and Rosie are PERFECT for each other! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] And maybe it IS because he did not have the ring long. And Sam would make a really good husband if you think about it!

Kalimac · 03-12-2002, 09:24 PM

Good question - at least, it's one I've wondered about sometimes myself [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]. Sorry if I'm repeating what other people have said here, but here's how I see it:

Sauron - I second the opinion that he wouldn't want any competition, and when you think about it, whom could he marry exactly? Demons who exist only as lidless eyes don't seem like they would really get anything out of the institution. ("Till destruction of the Tower of Barad-dur do you part" eh, maybe not).

Isildur - hard to tell since, as was pointed out, he was married before he got the Ring. The theory that the Ring might affect one's "personal life" like that might be true here though; consider the description of Isildur in "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields" - he seems so consumed by the thing that his family was a far-distant priority. He may barely have seen his wife after that battle; they certainly didn't have any more children.

Deagol - Technically there's no evidence that he *wasn't* married, but as Rosa points out, it's not likely. No idea what would have happened to him if he'd lived, but the examples of Isildur (and Gollum) aren't too promising.

Gollum/Smeagol - Tricksy this one is. Gollum sounds like a fairly nasty guy even before he got the Ring - always going exploring alone into "roots and beginnings", greedy, trying to take advantage of his friend, and the first thing he thinks of after discovering he's invisible is of all the pranks he can pull. It's a safe bet he wasn't too sociable before the whole thing happened, and that the Ring didn't find it terribly difficult to corrupt him. To be honest, Gollum sounds like far too much of a natural loner to be the marrying kind, even if he hadn't gotten the Ring.

Bilbo - Again, not the marrying kind, but in a far different way. In "The Quest of Erebor" Gandalf describes Bilbo as a naturally adventure-minded young hobbit who had stifled his dreams of exploration so he wouldn't be seen in Hobbiton as being unnaturally Took-like. But he never married (which Gandalf points out is unusual among hobbits) which was probably a way of keeping a sort of escape-hatch; if by chance an adventure ever *did* come along, he wouldn't be tied down. All this predated the Ring and must be ascribed to Bilbo's character.

Frodo - He grew up knowing about the Ring and got official possession of it while he was young, rather like Gollum, actually. Very hard to tell if the Ring affected the fact that he didn't marry, especially since Frodo seems more of an innate homebody than Bilbo does (you can see that in ROTK when Frodo is grieving over leaving the Shire for good; Bilbo lived there a lot longer and was sorry to leave, but not that way). I think the fact that the Ring was always occupying a corner of Frodo's mind, eating up his attention, so to speak, probably did affect his not marrying (and of course there's the whole "you were *meant* to have it" factor; maybe it was Fate holding him back). Afterwards, of course, he was in far too bad a shape to marry anyone, even if he'd had the energy left to be so inclined.

Sam - He was the only one of all the Ring-bearers who did not take possession of it willingly; he took it against his own inclination and while he was bearing it never thought of it as his - it was Frodo's, and he was just helping Frodo out. And of course he only had it a very short time, and was the only one who could let himself give up the Ring without a struggle (which can't just be ascribed to his having borne it for a very short while; imagine trying to get Boromir to give up the Ring after he'd had it for five minutes). Sam seems to have been saved by the fact that the Ring was never the dominating thought in his mind; instead the dominating thought was always Frodo. These factors were probably what saved Sam; if he'd let the Ring take over his thoughts and had quarrelled over it with Frodo his character would have been terribly changed, even if they did manage to destroy it. Rosie Cotton probably wouldn't have recognized the Sam who came back after that.

Oh - sorry, I seem to have written a book! Thanks for reading the end [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img].

Haldir · 03-15-2002, 04:32 PM

It's because:
1) Sam had the ring of power for like 5 seconeds....
2) Not everybody gets married....
3) who would ever want Gollum or Sauron ?!?

Arwen Imladris · 03-15-2002, 05:06 PM

You forgot one, Tom Bombadil, but he was married before he had the ring any way.

Enedhil · 03-15-2002, 05:11 PM

Awww, come on, i'm sure gollum would have turned out ok if it hadnt been for that damned ring! granted, he throttled deagol for it, but that would be the hold/power it has over folk, wouldn't it?

I can imagine Smeagol and Deagol being each other's best man at their weddings [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Some very intersting points made so far. Presently going 'hmmm'...

goldwine · 03-15-2002, 08:59 PM

At this time in ME there were monumental changes taking place and the future was uncertain. Those to whom fate (back to other threads!) gave major tasks to perform like Legolas, Gimli, Frodo etc. were totally absorbed by those purposes, and afterwards probably felt that they didn't fit in anywhere.

03-12-2002, 01:51 AM	#1
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,012	Ring Bearers In another topic, we discussed who bore the ring of power. Click here to read. I noted that these people bore the ring. 1. Sauron - who made it 2. Isildur - who cut it from Sauron's hand 3. Deagol - who found it in the river where Isildur lost it. 4. Smeagol/Gollum - who murdered Deagol for the ring. 5. Bilbo Baggins - who found the ring in the cave, read the Hobbit. 6. Frodo Baggins - who received it from Bilbo when he left the Shire. 7. Samwise Gamgee - who took it from Frodo when he thought that he was dead from Shelob's poison. Isildur and Sam were the only ones who had the ring that married. Isildur was already married and had children when he possesed the ring. Sam was the only ring bearer that married after possessing the ring. My question is why did the others not marry? Was it beacause the ring had power over their minds? Why the was Sam able to marry? Is it because he only took the ring to keep it from being taken by the enemy and that he did not acctualy posses it? __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

03-12-2002, 02:41 AM	#2
Rosa Underhill Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Waymeet, the Shire Posts: 297	Here's the way I see it: Sauron: demons aren't really into marriage; besides, who'd want to marry a guy like Sauron, anyways? He's too power hungry for any woman to stand for long. Deagol: I'm thinking that he didn't live long enough to get married. Poor guy. Smeagol/Gollum: Too obsessed over the Ring by the end, but I always saw him as being close in age to Deagol, so he might have been too young to marry, too. Bilbo: some people just aren't meant for marriage. Bilbo is one. He preffered being by himself at home and, after all that adventuring he did, well, again, who in the Shire (particularly of his class) would wan to marry him? Poor guy. I'd've married him... Frodo: I think he was just too hurt; he couldn't share that pain with anyone, not even his dearest friend, Sam, so he left tot he only place where he could find healing. Poor guy. That's just my two cents. __________________ WWAHD? (What would a Hobbit do?)

03-12-2002, 08:12 AM	#4
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,591	LOL!!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I wondered if that thread would come up. __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

03-12-2002, 11:55 AM	#5
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,313	I think it is more than just that the ringbearers did not Marry. Many characters in Tolkien's works did not, Legolas and Gimli among them. There just seems to be a different view of marriage in ME. It is not necessary to marry to be happy. Often not a popular opinion in todays world. It stands out to us. __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

03-12-2002, 06:36 PM	#6
VanimaEdhel Etheral Enchantress Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wellesley College! Posts: 1,461	1. Sauron - Okay: do you think he would ever be able to have ANY competition to his power? And would anyone marry him without his forcing them? He would not wish to marry 2. Isildur - He probably died before he could find a wife 3. Deagol - He died before he had the ring long, and he was young 4. Smeagol/Gollum - He ran away and lived in the cave alone so long... 5. Bilbo Baggins - Hmmm...well, he was getting on a bit already when he found the ring...not old mind you, but...olDER. Don't know...maybe there was no one right...or maybe it was the ring 6. Frodo Baggins - Well, it was either the ring or the same case as was with Bilbo. I forget: did he travel afterwards? If so, then he may not have had TIME to find a wife! 7. Samwise Gamgee - Well, come ON! He and Rosie are PERFECT for each other! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] And maybe it IS because he did not have the ring long. And Sam would make a really good husband if you think about it! __________________ "I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. If we're in each others dreams, we can be together all the time." - Hobbes of Calvin and Hobbes

03-12-2002, 06:19 AM	#3
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	This thread has a very comprehensive discussion of the nature of the Ring that also caused this peculiarity of its bearers.

03-12-2002, 09:24 PM	#7
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	Good question - at least, it's one I've wondered about sometimes myself [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]. Sorry if I'm repeating what other people have said here, but here's how I see it: Sauron - I second the opinion that he wouldn't want any competition, and when you think about it, whom could he marry exactly? Demons who exist only as lidless eyes don't seem like they would really get anything out of the institution. ("Till destruction of the Tower of Barad-dur do you part" eh, maybe not). Isildur - hard to tell since, as was pointed out, he was married before he got the Ring. The theory that the Ring might affect one's "personal life" like that might be true here though; consider the description of Isildur in "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields" - he seems so consumed by the thing that his family was a far-distant priority. He may barely have seen his wife after that battle; they certainly didn't have any more children. Deagol - Technically there's no evidence that he wasn't married, but as Rosa points out, it's not likely. No idea what would have happened to him if he'd lived, but the examples of Isildur (and Gollum) aren't too promising. Gollum/Smeagol - Tricksy this one is. Gollum sounds like a fairly nasty guy even before he got the Ring - always going exploring alone into "roots and beginnings", greedy, trying to take advantage of his friend, and the first thing he thinks of after discovering he's invisible is of all the pranks he can pull. It's a safe bet he wasn't too sociable before the whole thing happened, and that the Ring didn't find it terribly difficult to corrupt him. To be honest, Gollum sounds like far too much of a natural loner to be the marrying kind, even if he hadn't gotten the Ring. Bilbo - Again, not the marrying kind, but in a far different way. In "The Quest of Erebor" Gandalf describes Bilbo as a naturally adventure-minded young hobbit who had stifled his dreams of exploration so he wouldn't be seen in Hobbiton as being unnaturally Took-like. But he never married (which Gandalf points out is unusual among hobbits) which was probably a way of keeping a sort of escape-hatch; if by chance an adventure ever did come along, he wouldn't be tied down. All this predated the Ring and must be ascribed to Bilbo's character. Frodo - He grew up knowing about the Ring and got official possession of it while he was young, rather like Gollum, actually. Very hard to tell if the Ring affected the fact that he didn't marry, especially since Frodo seems more of an innate homebody than Bilbo does (you can see that in ROTK when Frodo is grieving over leaving the Shire for good; Bilbo lived there a lot longer and was sorry to leave, but not that way). I think the fact that the Ring was always occupying a corner of Frodo's mind, eating up his attention, so to speak, probably did affect his not marrying (and of course there's the whole "you were meant to have it" factor; maybe it was Fate holding him back). Afterwards, of course, he was in far too bad a shape to marry anyone, even if he'd had the energy left to be so inclined. Sam - He was the only one of all the Ring-bearers who did not take possession of it willingly; he took it against his own inclination and while he was bearing it never thought of it as his - it was Frodo's, and he was just helping Frodo out. And of course he only had it a very short time, and was the only one who could let himself give up the Ring without a struggle (which can't just be ascribed to his having borne it for a very short while; imagine trying to get Boromir to give up the Ring after he'd had it for five minutes). Sam seems to have been saved by the fact that the Ring was never the dominating thought in his mind; instead the dominating thought was always Frodo. These factors were probably what saved Sam; if he'd let the Ring take over his thoughts and had quarrelled over it with Frodo his character would have been terribly changed, even if they did manage to destroy it. Rosie Cotton probably wouldn't have recognized the Sam who came back after that. Oh - sorry, I seem to have written a book! Thanks for reading the end [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]. __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

03-15-2002, 04:32 PM	#8
Haldir Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 40	It's because: 1) Sam had the ring of power for like 5 seconeds.... 2) Not everybody gets married.... 3) who would ever want Gollum or Sauron ?!? __________________ "In place of a Lord you shall have a Queen, not Dark but Beautiful and Terrible as the Dawn, Treacherous as the Sea, Stronger than the foundations of the Earth all shall love me and dispair"

03-15-2002, 05:06 PM	#9
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	You forgot one, Tom Bombadil, but he was married before he had the ring any way. __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

03-15-2002, 05:11 PM	#10
Enedhil Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scotland Posts: 102	Awww, come on, i'm sure gollum would have turned out ok if it hadnt been for that damned ring! granted, he throttled deagol for it, but that would be the hold/power it has over folk, wouldn't it? I can imagine Smeagol and Deagol being each other's best man at their weddings [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Some very intersting points made so far. Presently going 'hmmm'... __________________ Meanwhile these three remain: Faith, Hope and Love. And the greatest of these is Love.

03-15-2002, 08:59 PM	#11
goldwine Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South Australia Posts: 64	At this time in ME there were monumental changes taking place and the future was uncertain. Those to whom fate (back to other threads!) gave major tasks to perform like Legolas, Gimli, Frodo etc. were totally absorbed by those purposes, and afterwards probably felt that they didn't fit in anywhere. __________________ 2A Balrog. A demon from the underpants (Gandalf)