The End of Sauron - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

01-02-2004, 02:52 PM

As I'm sure we've all seen the Return of the King, would you rather have had Sauron vanishing with a big ominous black shape that gets blown away, or with the crumbling Barad-dur and him popping?

Theron Bugtussle · 01-02-2004, 03:51 PM

Welcome to the Downs, SuperMaiario! And great name!I prefer the book picture to the movie picture. And when you say, "him popping", do you mean that eye on top of Barad-dur? I think that in the movie, Sauron was reduced to--or entirely represented by--that eye. It was ambiguous at best, and seemed weird to me. Anyway, if the eye was going to pop, I would have preferred to see that corny, 1950's sci-fi movie "eye-beam" (you know, the one that was hopping about looking for Frodo and Sam!) to turn to smoke or fog, then dissipate in the wind!

Carlas · 01-02-2004, 04:21 PM

I think the crumbling Barad-dur and the eye 'popping', made for a good climatic moment in the movie. I think it worked well, and the popping brought some finality to it as well. Im sure he could have done it many other ways, but I think he made a good call.

Olorin_TLA · 01-02-2004, 05:24 PM

The image of this terrible apolcalypitc cloud of Dark rising up out of the ruins of Mordor in wrath in the shape of a monstorusly huge Sauron, lighting crowinging its "head" with a hand streching out to destroy the West, and THEN being blown away by a westerly wind (so Mados did somehting for once... ) was too good to pass up. I don't understand the logic...no, stupidty...in removing it.In fact, they could ahve kept the crumbling Tower and had it rise out of the fiery destruction from the point of view of Black Gates. Fools!

Carlas · 01-02-2004, 05:43 PM

To people who had not read the books, a large cloud shaped like Sauron, would most likely have looked corny. In my experiences, I haven't seen any cg dark clouds, or clouds of smoke, that have looked real at all. Also, PJ & co. did want to make it feel realistic as possible, and large clouds looking like people just doesn't seem very realistic.

Birdland · 01-02-2004, 05:57 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Also, PJ & co. did want to make it feel realistic as possible, and large clouds looking like people just doesn't seem very realistic.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ahem...Carlas...just how many disembodied, flaming red eyeballs do you know?

Lord of Angmar · 01-02-2004, 05:59 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Also, PJ & co. did want to make it feel realistic as possible, and large clouds looking like people just doesn't seem very realistic. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I agree. I would have gone with the Great Frantic Imploding Eyeball ending as well. [ 7:00 PM January 02, 2004: Message edited by: Lord of Angmar ]

Theron Bugtussle · 01-02-2004, 06:00 PM

Heh, heh...with eye-beams like searchlights?

Carlas · 01-02-2004, 06:07 PM

Hahaha, quite a few actually Birdland. But what I mean is it seems like something from an old cheesy movie. It works wonderfully in the books, but in a movie, I don't think it would have worked.[ 7:08 PM January 02, 2004: Message edited by: Carlas ]

Lathriel · 01-02-2004, 07:47 PM

Maybe the cloud looking like Sauron would have been a bit too much. It wouldn't be as subtle as an eye that is extinguished like a candle when all the oxygen is taken away because the ring was like Oxygen to Sauron. Or at least that is how I always thought of it. One thing I have to point out. In the prologue of FOTR when the ring is cut of everyone is thrown to the ground. However in ROTK when the ring is destroyed the armies of the West are left standing and the enemy is thrown to the ground. I thought that was kinda cool.

Knight of Gondor · 01-02-2004, 09:51 PM

I think a cloud would have worked, maybe better than the exploding eyeball. (Insert Ben Stein monotone: "For red, dry eyes, try clear eyes!" Mouth of Sauron: "Wooooow.") I think it would have been good if the shadow had sort have formed and perhaps reached a hand down, ala the prologue of Sauron reaching down to Isildur. But, the movie was what it was, and I still loved it.

Olorin_TLA · 01-03-2004, 09:21 AM

Corny? Umm...no.Let's see, if people will accept giant flaming demons (done realistically, with smoke and all!) and Riders searching for someone who just happen th be cloaked all in black and have hisses for vioces, I think they'd accept that.

Carlas · 01-03-2004, 11:24 AM

Im just saying I like how they showed it in the movie, and I don't think a giant sauron cloud would have worked.

Lord of Angmar · 01-03-2004, 11:35 AM

In all honesty, I did not have any major qualms about how Sauron came to his end, but I do think it would be better if it had stuck a little bit closer to the text of the book (i.e. not having a Flaming Eye at all).

Maéglin · 01-03-2004, 07:21 PM

Well it didnt have to be a 'giant Sauron cloud' but PJ could have been creative.. Maybe the 'cloud' filling the sky then penetrated/destroyed by sunlight... I'm sure something could have been done fairly close to the book...

01-02-2004, 02:52 PM	#1
SuperMaiario Guest Posts: n/a	The End of Sauron As I'm sure we've all seen the Return of the King, would you rather have had Sauron vanishing with a big ominous black shape that gets blown away, or with the crumbling Barad-dur and him popping?

01-02-2004, 03:51 PM	#2
Theron Bugtussle Wight Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Blowing the froth off a couple in this quaint little pub in Michel Delving. Posts: 147	Welcome to the Downs, <B>SuperMaiario</B>! And great name!<P>I prefer the book picture to the movie picture. And when you say, "him popping", do you mean that eye on top of Barad-dur? I think that in the movie, Sauron was reduced to--or entirely represented by--that eye. It was ambiguous at best, and seemed weird to me. <P>Anyway, if the eye was going to pop, I would have preferred to see that corny, 1950's sci-fi movie "eye-beam" (you know, the one that was hopping about looking for Frodo and Sam!) to turn to smoke or fog, then dissipate in the wind! __________________ For I was talking aloud to myself. A habit of the old: they choose the wisest person present to speak to; the long explanations needed by the young are wearying. -Gandalf, The Two Towers

01-02-2004, 04:21 PM	#3
Carlas Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lost in the Fog of the Downs Posts: 359	I think the crumbling Barad-dur and the eye 'popping', made for a good climatic moment in the movie. I think it worked well, and the popping brought some finality to it as well. <P>Im sure he could have done it many other ways, but I think he made a good call. __________________ 七転八起...

01-02-2004, 05:24 PM	#4
Olorin_TLA Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Gardens of Lórien, Valinor. Posts: 420	The image of this terrible apolcalypitc cloud of Dark rising up out of the ruins of Mordor in wrath in the shape of a monstorusly huge Sauron, lighting crowinging its "head" with a hand streching out to destroy the West, and THEN being blown away by a westerly wind (so Mados did somehting for once... ) was too good to pass up. I don't understand the logic...no, stupidty...in removing it.<P>In fact, they could ahve kept the crumbling Tower and had it rise out of the fiery destruction from the point of view of Black Gates. Fools! __________________ "For I am Olórin! And Olórin means me!" ELENDIL! - Join "Forth Tolkiengas!"

01-02-2004, 05:43 PM	#5
Carlas Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lost in the Fog of the Downs Posts: 359	To people who had not read the books, a large cloud shaped like Sauron, would most likely have looked corny. In my experiences, I haven't seen any cg dark clouds, or clouds of smoke, that have looked real at all. Also, PJ & co. did want to make it feel realistic as possible, and large clouds looking like people just doesn't seem very realistic. __________________ 七転八起...

01-02-2004, 05:57 PM	#6
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,751	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Also, PJ & co. did want to make it feel realistic as possible, and large clouds looking like people just doesn't seem very realistic.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ahem...Carlas...just how many disembodied, flaming red eyeballs <I>do</I> you know?

01-02-2004, 05:59 PM	#7
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Also, PJ & co. did want to make it feel realistic as possible, and large clouds looking like people just doesn't seem very realistic. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I agree. I would have gone with the Great Frantic Imploding Eyeball ending as well. <p>[ 7:00 PM January 02, 2004: Message edited by: Lord of Angmar ] __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.

01-02-2004, 06:00 PM	#8
Theron Bugtussle Wight Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Blowing the froth off a couple in this quaint little pub in Michel Delving. Posts: 147	Heh, heh...with eye-beams like searchlights? __________________ For I was talking aloud to myself. A habit of the old: they choose the wisest person present to speak to; the long explanations needed by the young are wearying. -Gandalf, The Two Towers

01-02-2004, 06:07 PM	#9
Carlas Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lost in the Fog of the Downs Posts: 359	Hahaha, quite a few actually Birdland. <P>But what I mean is it seems like something from an old cheesy movie. It works wonderfully in the books, but in a movie, I don't think it would have worked.<p>[ 7:08 PM January 02, 2004: Message edited by: Carlas ] __________________ 七転八起...

01-02-2004, 07:47 PM	#10
Lathriel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wandering through Middle-Earth (Sadly in Alberta and not ME) Posts: 612	Maybe the cloud looking like Sauron would have been a bit too much. It wouldn't be as subtle as an eye that is extinguished like a candle when all the oxygen is taken away because the ring was like Oxygen to Sauron. Or at least that is how I always thought of it.<BR>One thing I have to point out. In the prologue of FOTR when the ring is cut of everyone is thrown to the ground. However in ROTK when the ring is destroyed the armies of the West are left standing and the enemy is thrown to the ground. I thought that was kinda cool. __________________ Back again

01-02-2004, 09:51 PM	#11
Knight of Gondor Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 744	I think a cloud would have worked, maybe better than the exploding eyeball. (Insert Ben Stein monotone: "For red, dry eyes, try clear eyes!" Mouth of Sauron: "Wooooow.") I think it would have been good if the shadow had sort have formed and perhaps reached a hand down, ala the prologue of Sauron reaching down to Isildur. But, the movie was what it was, and I still loved it. __________________ Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16

01-03-2004, 09:21 AM	#12
Olorin_TLA Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Gardens of Lórien, Valinor. Posts: 420	Corny? Umm...no.<P>Let's see, if people will accept giant flaming demons (done realistically, with smoke and all!) and Riders searching for someone who just happen th be cloaked all in black and have hisses for vioces, I think they'd accept that. __________________ "For I am Olórin! And Olórin means me!" ELENDIL! - Join "Forth Tolkiengas!"

01-03-2004, 11:24 AM	#13
Carlas Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lost in the Fog of the Downs Posts: 359	Im just saying I like how they showed it in the movie, and I don't think a giant sauron cloud would have worked. __________________ 七転八起...

01-03-2004, 11:35 AM	#14
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	In all honesty, I did not have any major qualms about how Sauron came to his end, but I do think it would be better if it had stuck a little bit closer to the text of the book (i.e. not having a Flaming Eye at all). __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.

01-03-2004, 07:21 PM	#15
Maéglin Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 99	Well it didnt have to be a 'giant Sauron cloud' but PJ could have been creative.. Maybe the 'cloud' filling the sky then penetrated/destroyed by sunlight... I'm sure something could have been done fairly close to the book...